Reply
Go Back   TexasBowhunter.com Community Discussion Forums > Topics > Current Events - Politics and Such
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-30-2017, 03:27 PM   #51
Livin'2hunt
Ten Point
 
Livin'2hunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Hunt In: my birthday suit
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermin93 View Post
That is a pretty ridiculous bit of demagoguery. Coal-generation is heavily subsidized, as it's allowed to emit ridiculous amounts of greenhouse gases and pollutants without paying for it. It takes objectivity and integrity to not ideologically dismiss the widely accepted science behind this.

Personally, I hope to see a heavily subsidized, wide-scale deployment of small modular reactors in the coming decades to help accelerate the demise of coal.
And, you believe the people in charge weren't smart enough to buy off the scientists....that's cute. If you read all the syllables I wrote, I didn't say I agreed with coal subsidies. It's all a scam with people associated with D.C. being enriched by our utility payments. I know two different scientists in differing fields who receive [admittedly] bogus grant money of which, they personally keep 33%. I asked them what they have to do for the money and both explained, they have to achieve the results desired by the Bureau authorizing the grant. I asked, "Doesn't providing knowingly false or misleading information weigh on your conscience?" One responded, "It would until you realize, they are shopping for subject authorities to deliver results they desire. If I don't do it, the next guy will. I may as well be the one well-paid for it." The other had a similar justification. The results you cite are bought and paid for and you are ignorant enough to believe it. That's not my fault.
Livin'2hunt is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 07-31-2017, 10:05 AM   #52
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default

Wind power is a failed experiment. After billions in subsidies and tax breaks over 2 decades, it produces less than 6% of electricity generated in this country. Figuring in the subsidies of tax money, It cost 52 times more to generate a megawatt of power from wind than natural gas, and turbines last 15 years then have to be replaced. Most of them are at the end of that time, so that will require replacement costs of billions.
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 07-31-2017, 11:04 AM   #53
Livin'2hunt
Ten Point
 
Livin'2hunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Hunt In: my birthday suit
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
Wind power is a failed experiment. After billions in subsidies and tax breaks over 2 decades, it produces less than 6% of electricity generated in this country. Figuring in the subsidies of tax money, It cost 52 times more to generate a megawatt of power from wind than natural gas, and turbines last 15 years then have to be replaced. Most of them are at the end of that time, so that will require replacement costs of billions.

Be careful. A Varmint will call you a demagogue for speaking truth like that.
Livin'2hunt is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 07-31-2017, 12:42 PM   #54
Man
Pope & Young
 
Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Hondo,Tx
Hunt In: Hondo,Tx / Oklahoma
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by muzzlebrake View Post
And then there's ethanol.
Ethanol...where to begin.
Man is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 07-31-2017, 02:12 PM   #55
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default Green Energy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livin'2hunt View Post
Be careful. A Varmint will call you a demagogue for speaking truth like that.


That's expected from zealots. But facts are facts. And the FACTS prove that wind energy after 2 decades is failure as an economic producer of electricity. Harping on how much one person benefits from others tax dollars is self serving, but that's all. It doesn't change the fact that for the subsidy dollars poured into wind, we get less energy than any other...nuclear, natural gas, oil or coal. The entire amount of energy generated by wind is less than 6% of our needs. It wouldn't keep LA in A/C for one hot summer week without using other methods to back it up.
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 07-31-2017, 04:50 PM   #56
Livin'2hunt
Ten Point
 
Livin'2hunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Hunt In: my birthday suit
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
That's expected from zealots. But facts are facts. And the FACTS prove that wind energy after 2 decades is failure as an economic producer of electricity. Harping on how much one person benefits from others tax dollars is self serving, but that's all. It doesn't change the fact that for the subsidy dollars poured into wind, we get less energy than any other...nuclear, natural gas, oil or coal. The entire amount of energy generated by wind is less than 6% of our needs. It wouldn't keep LA in A/C for one hot summer week without using other methods to back it up.

You got it. It doesn't take much looking at the process undertaken to realize the windmills are subsidized. I have watched this from start to about 90% completion and every component used is top notch, the equipment is brand new and overkill is the name of that game. There is no "budget" to follow whatsoever. Being that, every promise we have been made has been broken with impunity, I would wager we are being purposefully kept in the dark by these snakes. It is an insidious problem to be sure and as you stated, reaping the benefits of it IS self-serving. That's why he has not responded. Facts hurt his feelings.
Livin'2hunt is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 07-31-2017, 05:02 PM   #57
Man
Pope & Young
 
Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Hondo,Tx
Hunt In: Hondo,Tx / Oklahoma
Default

Its not working....but it feels like the right thing to do, and for that we should continue.

Thats what Im getting outta this.
Man is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 07-31-2017, 05:05 PM   #58
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default Green Energy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man View Post
Its not working....but it feels like the right thing to do, and for that we should continue.

Thats what Im getting outta this.


We are 20 trillion in debt. Dumping billions more into an unbelievable failure is not what we should do. I don't care how good it makes someone feel.
In 2015, our losses where up to 2.2 billion, with another 30 billion in default.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...PhTjJiUqDpvqFw
Now it's higher, and the majority of turbines need replacing. Many are just shut down to rot, companies go bankrupt, and WE get hung with millions in clean up.

Last edited by Lostacresranch; 07-31-2017 at 05:12 PM..
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 07-31-2017, 05:11 PM   #59
Livin'2hunt
Ten Point
 
Livin'2hunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Hunt In: my birthday suit
Default

Everyone should understand, this is not about "green" energy. That is a smoke screen. This is an enrichment device used to line the pockets of liberals and Centrists. They know we will argue until the Earth stops spinning about the merits of a transparently flawed practice. Meanwhile, they make an end-run around us with sacks of cash stolen from our Treasury. It is a scam pure and simple.
Livin'2hunt is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 07-31-2017, 06:39 PM   #60
stickerpatch59
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: gonzales tx
Hunt In: gonzales, and....
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man View Post
Its not working....but it feels like the right thing to do, and for that we should continue.

Thats what Im getting outta this.
yep, it's nothing more than a boondoggle to enrich a few at the taxpayers expense. it is very inefficient for what it cost vs what it produces.

oil, natural gas and coal can't be beat when it comes to efficiency.
stickerpatch59 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 07-31-2017, 07:17 PM   #61
Traildust
Pope & Young
 
Traildust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Alvin, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stickerpatch59 View Post
yep, it's nothing more than a boondoggle to enrich a few at the taxpayers expense. it is very inefficient for what it cost vs what it produces.

oil, natural gas and coal can't be beat when it comes to efficiency.
Drill Baby Drill!
Traildust is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-01-2017, 10:19 PM   #62
Vermin93
Eight Point
 
Vermin93's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Addison, TX
Hunt In: North TX, OK, TN
Default Green Energy

This is great news. Over 25% of the electricity generated in Oklahoma is already coming from wind, and this very large wind project will raise it even higher.


American Electric Power to Invest $4.5 Billion in Wind Farm Project

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/...ct-update.html

"The investment is the latest sign that U.S. wind power projects are beginning to attract serious money, even in the heart of oil and gas country, as they become more competitive with other sources of electricity."

Last edited by Vermin93; 08-01-2017 at 10:22 PM..
Vermin93 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 12:12 PM   #63
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermin93 View Post
This is great news. Over 25% of the electricity generated in Oklahoma is already coming from wind, and this very large wind project will raise it even higher.


American Electric Power to Invest $4.5 Billion in Wind Farm Project

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/...ct-update.html

"The investment is the latest sign that U.S. wind power projects are beginning to attract serious money, even in the heart of oil and gas country, as they become more competitive with other sources of electricity."


Your "over 25%" figure is questionable. Post up that figures link. And of these "projects" on paper, they are subject to "subsidies money" being available. They are not built yet, and as per your own article, are counting on the massive subsidies to be built. Without that, they are NOT competitive with "other" energy generation methods. So unless billions of our taxpayer dollars are dumped into this, it's not a done deal, nor is it in any way "competitive". Billions of ALL our tax dollars being taken to build something that benifits those in one regional area is wrong. It's a scam benefiting a few that make money from this.
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 12:38 PM   #64
AZST_bowhunter
Ten Point
 
AZST_bowhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Houston
Hunt In: Rusk County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
We are 20 trillion in debt. Dumping billions more into an unbelievable failure is not what we should do. I don't care how good it makes someone feel.
In 2015, our losses where up to 2.2 billion, with another 30 billion in default.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...PhTjJiUqDpvqFw
Now it's higher, and the majority of turbines need replacing. Many are just shut down to rot, companies go bankrupt, and WE get hung with millions in clean up.
The only clean energy is GREEN energy!! Like really bright green, like glowing...

Seriously
AZST_bowhunter is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 12:38 PM   #65
flywise
Pope & Young
 
flywise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kempner,Tx
Hunt In: Blanco, Nacadoches,NewMexico,Colorado
Default

Hopefully at least a few of the willfully ignorant libs will read this article.
Green energy will leave the utopian dreams of the leftist in the wake of the candle smoke that lights up their bed rooms when they can no longer afford their electric bill
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-920288.html
flywise is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 01:09 PM   #66
Vermin93
Eight Point
 
Vermin93's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Addison, TX
Hunt In: North TX, OK, TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
Your "over 25%" figure is questionable. Post up that figures link. And of these "projects" on paper, they are subject to "subsidies money" being available. They are not built yet, and as per your own article, are counting on the massive subsidies to be built. Without that, they are NOT competitive with "other" energy generation methods. So unless billions of our taxpayer dollars are dumped into this, it's not a done deal, nor is it in any way "competitive". Billions of ALL our tax dollars being taken to build something that benifits those in one regional area is wrong. It's a scam benefiting a few that make money from this.
The data is nationally tracked by EIA.

2016 Oklahoma net generation for wind, all sectors: 19,913
2016 Oklahoma net generation for all fuels: 78,127

19,913 / 78,127 = 25.5%

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/data...&datecode=null

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/data...se=0&maptype=0

Yes, the project is a beneficiary of the pro-rewables tax policy enabled by the Production Tax Credit. I don't have a problem with this given that coal and natural gas generators are able to pass the cost of their greenhouse gas and other emissions onto consumers. Also, AEP estimates the project will save customers over $7 Billion over a 25-year span compared to the estimated cost for AEP to procure power over the same period. AEP states that "customers will see savings primarily through a reduction in the fuel portion of their bills, beginning in 2021". Outstanding, if true.

On a related note, Oklahoma recently rescinded their state tax credit for wind production, which wasn't scheduled to phase out until 2021. Oklahoma needs the tax revenue and the credit is no longer needed for projects such as this.

There is also this interesting tidbit.

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/aep-...d-farm/447989/

"A recent levelized cost of energy analyses from Lazard said onshore wind LCOE is between $32/MWh and $62/MWh—lower than that of a combined cycle natural gas plant, which ranges from $48/MWh to $78/MWh."
Vermin93 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 01:54 PM   #67
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default Green Energy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermin93 View Post
The data is nationally tracked by EIA.

2016 Oklahoma net generation for wind, all sectors: 19,913
2016 Oklahoma net generation for all fuels: 78,127

19,913 / 78,127 = 25.5%

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/data...&datecode=null

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/data...se=0&maptype=0

Yes, the project is a beneficiary of the pro-rewables tax policy enabled by the Production Tax Credit. I don't have a problem with this given that coal and natural gas generators are able to pass the cost of their greenhouse gas and other emissions onto consumers. Also, AEP estimates the project will save customers over $7 Billion over a 25-year span compared to the estimated cost for AEP to procure power over the same period. AEP states that "customers will see savings primarily through a reduction in the fuel portion of their bills, beginning in 2021". Outstanding, if true.

On a related note, Oklahoma recently rescinded their state tax credit for wind production, which wasn't scheduled to phase out until 2021. Oklahoma needs the tax revenue and the credit is no longer needed for projects such as this.

There is also this interesting tidbit.

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/aep-...d-farm/447989/

"A recent levelized cost of energy analyses from Lazard said onshore wind LCOE is between $32/MWh and $62/MWh—lower than that of a combined cycle natural gas plant, which ranges from $48/MWh to $78/MWh."


That's a nice article you posted. Makes it sound like wind is catching on. It's not. You have companies getting rich off the lie. You post a report about oklahoma using wind for 25% of its electrical needs...sounds great! Nobody mentioned that oklahoma has less than 4 million people. Just to compare, New York City has over 8 million. Wind provides 5% of this country's needs after decades of giving it billions to make it work. Without those billions, it wouldn't be a factor at all.
Did you bother to read the link fly posted? It's not just us that are seeing this. Germany and all of Europe are seeing that wind is a pipe dream.

Last edited by Lostacresranch; 08-02-2017 at 01:56 PM..
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 02:10 PM   #68
BrandonA
Pope & Young
 
BrandonA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Marble Falls/Burnet
Hunt In: Mills and Burnet County
Default

Take away the Tax Payer Subsidies and these wind farms will die. I don't care if they are producing 50% of the energy they are not profitable. If they were the government wouldn't need to prop them up.
BrandonA is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 02:41 PM   #69
Vermin93
Eight Point
 
Vermin93's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Addison, TX
Hunt In: North TX, OK, TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flywise View Post
Hopefully at least a few of the willfully ignorant libs will read this article.
Green energy will leave the utopian dreams of the leftist in the wake of the candle smoke that lights up their bed rooms when they can no longer afford their electric bill
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-920288.html
It's worth noting that 4 years after the publication of that article, Germany has just achieved a milestone of having 35% of its power produced by renewable energy and their economy has been on a tear during that time.

Germany has certainly made some questionable and expensive decisions in pursuit of their goal to achieve 80% renewables by 2050. I don't agree with their decision to phase out nuclear power, but that's what the German people seem to have demanded. Nevertheless, they have blazed a trail that other countries will learn from as renewable generation continues to expand.
Vermin93 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 02:57 PM   #70
sqiggy
Pope & Young
 
sqiggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Franklin, Tx
Hunt In: Panola Co and Robertson Co
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermin93 View Post
It's worth noting that 4 years after the publication of that article, Germany has just achieved a milestone of having 35% of its power produced by renewable energy and their economy has been on a tear during that time.
Can you show us the stats on the "carbon footprint" it puts out to build these windmills?
sqiggy is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 03:09 PM   #71
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sqiggy View Post
Can you show us the stats on the "carbon footprint" it puts out to build these windmills?


Thats another question that wind power advocates continue to dodge. Look at that. Look at the clean up costs, the life span of these turbines. It's just more billions WE can pay for.
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 03:11 PM   #72
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default

More on these get deals we get from our money going to wind power.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...XzyJ3Bd5dcc4QA
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 04:32 PM   #73
Vermin93
Eight Point
 
Vermin93's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Addison, TX
Hunt In: North TX, OK, TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
That's a nice article you posted. Makes it sound like wind is catching on. It's not. You have companies getting rich off the lie. You post a report about oklahoma using wind for 25% of its electrical needs...sounds great! Nobody mentioned that oklahoma has less than 4 million people. Just to compare, New York City has over 8 million. Wind provides 5% of this country's needs after decades of giving it billions to make it work. Without those billions, it wouldn't be a factor at all.
Did you bother to read the link fly posted? It's not just us that are seeing this. Germany and all of Europe are seeing that wind is a pipe dream.
You doubted the 25% and asked for a link to the data. I provided a link to the data. Nice pivot.

I previously posted that Germany has achieved 35% renewable generation while maintaining strong economic growth. I have not suggested the US is capable of achieving similar renewable generation. Nevertheless, every short and long term forecast I've seen shows continued renewable growth at the expense of coal, which I view as a major positive.

Again, when coal and natural gas are made to absorb the cost of greenhouse gas and other emissions, I'll reconsider my opinion on renewable subsidies. I am hopeful that the ideas put forth earlier this year by a group of Republican statesmen who served in the Reagan and Bush administrations will eventually gain traction.

The Republican Carbon Tax Is Republican, Say Republicans
There’s just one problem: other Republicans.


https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...x-okay/516048/
Vermin93 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 04:53 PM   #74
flywise
Pope & Young
 
flywise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kempner,Tx
Hunt In: Blanco, Nacadoches,NewMexico,Colorado
Default

35% of renewable energy says nothing about the enormous cost to the consumer, which is why i posted the link. Fact is that 35% comes with a hugh withdrawal from the citizens wallets. Now liberals may not mind that huge cost because its done in the name of climate change. But the rest of us folks who understand that man made climate change is a scam this burden of higher electricity cost is hard to accept.
flywise is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 05:06 PM   #75
Vermin93
Eight Point
 
Vermin93's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Addison, TX
Hunt In: North TX, OK, TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
Thats another question that wind power advocates continue to dodge. Look at that. Look at the clean up costs, the life span of these turbines. It's just more billions WE can pay for.
Despite the absence of supporting and comparative data, this statement is amazingly hypocritical. To suggest we won't be paying heavily down the road for continued, excessive fossil-fuel generation is an extreme case of denial. In fact, capital markets are already beginning to take the associated risks into account.

There could be some karma here, though. A recent study showed that in the US, the south will get hit the hardest economically. It would only be fair for the home base of ideologically-fueled denial to bear the brunt of the cost.
Vermin93 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 05:40 PM   #76
Vermin93
Eight Point
 
Vermin93's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Addison, TX
Hunt In: North TX, OK, TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flywise View Post
35% of renewable energy says nothing about the enormous cost to the consumer, which is why i posted the link. Fact is that 35% comes with a hugh withdrawal from the citizens wallets. Now liberals may not mind that huge cost because its done in the name of climate change. But the rest of us folks who understand that man made climate change is a scam this burden of higher electricity cost is hard to accept.
Your last statement has become such an unsubstantiated, minority opinion that it's not worth addressing except to say that the majority of scientists, American Meteorological Society members, American citizens and basically every group not named "social conservatives" disagrees with. I wouldn't say it's as absurd a suggestion as the earth being less than 10,000 years old, dinosaurs riding around on a giant boat for a year, and homo sapiens having no evolutionary ancestors, but it's getting petty close.

Vermin93 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 06:18 PM   #77
100%TtId
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stickerpatch59 View Post
yep, it's nothing more than a boondoggle to enrich a few at the taxpayers expense. it is very inefficient for what it cost vs what it produces.

oil, natural gas and coal can't be beat when it comes to efficiency.
Wind power enriches GE shareholders. Those turbines ain't cheap.

And just a minor quibble: geothermal is actually the most cost-efficient, but only in certain limited areas.
100%TtId is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 06:46 PM   #78
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default Green Energy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermin93 View Post
You doubted the 25% and asked for a link to the data. I provided a link to the data. Nice pivot.



I previously posted that Germany has achieved 35% renewable generation while maintaining strong economic growth. I have not suggested the US is capable of achieving similar renewable generation. Nevertheless, every short and long term forecast I've seen shows continued renewable growth at the expense of coal, which I view as a major positive.



Again, when coal and natural gas are made to absorb the cost of greenhouse gas and other emissions, I'll reconsider my opinion on renewable subsidies. I am hopeful that the ideas put forth earlier this year by a group of Republican statesmen who served in the Reagan and Bush administrations will eventually gain traction.



The Republican Carbon Tax Is Republican, Say Republicans

There’s just one problem: other Republicans.




https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...x-okay/516048/


I did doubt it. I doubt it now. I've found estimates that wind is 25% of oklahomas electricity. I also found reports claiming that's the total for solar, wind and biofuels. But I imagine solar is minimal. But you provided a proof, so good for you! Now, show me how wind power is supposed to justify the billions of our money for 5 % of our electricity. BILLIONS spent already for less than 5%. That's over 20+ years. And all of us pay for it, regardless of now few of us benefit.
And your confidence in that great German economy is not shared by German economists that do that watching for a living.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...J9mXiMZKZ98-VQ

Last edited by Lostacresranch; 08-02-2017 at 06:50 PM..
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 06:51 PM   #79
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermin93 View Post
Despite the absence of supporting and comparative data, this statement is amazingly hypocritical. To suggest we won't be paying heavily down the road for continued, excessive fossil-fuel generation is an extreme case of denial. In fact, capital markets are already beginning to take the associated risks into account.



There could be some karma here, though. A recent study showed that in the US, the south will get hit the hardest economically. It would only be fair for the home base of ideologically-fueled denial to bear the brunt of the cost.


Post that study up. We will talk about it.
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 07:48 PM   #80
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermin93 View Post
Your last statement has become such an unsubstantiated, minority opinion that it's not worth addressing except to say that the majority of scientists, American Meteorological Society members, American citizens and basically every group not named "social conservatives" disagrees with. I wouldn't say it's as absurd a suggestion as the earth being less than 10,000 years old, dinosaurs riding around on a giant boat for a year, and homo sapiens having no evolutionary ancestors, but it's getting petty close.





That's a nice dodge and dig, but I haven't seen anyone here talking about the 10,000 year old earth theory. Maybe you can start another thread about it.
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 07:53 PM   #81
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default

Here's a few facts about those subsidies you are so fond of. Oil, gas, nuclear supply 95% of our electricity. They also have to "back up" wind/solar powered grids when they fail to keep up. These energy sources get less all together than wind and solar. Wind and solar subsidies are 50% HIGHER that all the rest combined. This is a article uses the study done by the University of Texas, so it should be easy to check.
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 08:24 PM   #82
Vermin93
Eight Point
 
Vermin93's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Addison, TX
Hunt In: North TX, OK, TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
I did doubt it. I doubt it now. I've found estimates that wind is 25% of oklahomas electricity. I also found reports claiming that's the total for solar, wind and biofuels. But I imagine solar is minimal. But you provided a proof, so good for you! Now, show me how wind power is supposed to justify the billions of our money for 5 % of our electricity. BILLIONS spent already for less than 5%. That's over 20+ years. And all of us pay for it, regardless of now few of us benefit.
And your confidence in that great German economy is not shared by German economists that do that watching for a living.
You doubt the national repository of industry data. This is the same repository that contains the data indicating wind accounts for 5.5% of national power generation. So, you like the national number but not the state numbers from which the national number is derived.

Generic references to "billions" are not substantial and are useless without comparative analysis.

All of us pay for the greenhouse gases and pollutants emitted by fossil fuel generation one way or another.

The Deutsche Bank economists in the article you referenced are concerned about the German economy overheating from a period of strong economic growth and the associated potential for rising inflation. Surely you realize this is not the same problem as a weak economy. The point is that the sustained period of economic growth in Germany has occurred in harmony with a large expansion of renewable energy, much to the chagrin of the anti-green energy crowd.
Vermin93 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 09:18 PM   #83
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermin93 View Post
You doubt the national repository of industry data. This is the same repository that contains the data indicating wind accounts for 5.5% of national power generation. So, you like the national number but not the state numbers from which the national number is derived.



Generic references to "billions" are not substantial and are useless without comparative analysis.



All of us pay for the greenhouse gases and pollutants emitted by fossil fuel generation one way or another.



The Deutsche Bank economists in the article you referenced are concerned about the German economy overheating from a period of strong economic growth and the associated potential for rising inflation. Surely you realize this is not the same problem as a weak economy. The point is that the sustained period of economic growth in Germany has occurred in harmony with a large expansion of renewable energy, much to the chagrin of the anti-green energy crowd.


Did you bother to read ANY of the post I just put up, or do you want to lecture me about the German economy? You say it's great, the German banking system economists say it's crashing. Believe what you want.
Those "generic references to billions" are documented NUMBERS. I just posted a study done regarding comparative analysis. If you would bother to READ it, it proves my point. Which is this...wind power as a generator of affordable electricity is a FAILURE. Without "billions" (there's that pesky number again) of our tax dollars to get 5% of our needs, it wouldn't exist. People like you saying it's working doesn't make it true.
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 09:33 PM   #84
flywise
Pope & Young
 
flywise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kempner,Tx
Hunt In: Blanco, Nacadoches,NewMexico,Colorado
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
Did you bother to read ANY of the post I just put up, or do you want to lecture me about the German economy? You say it's great, the German banking system economists say it's crashing. Believe what you want.
Those "generic references to billions" are documented NUMBERS. I just posted a study done regarding comparative analysis. If you would bother to READ it, it proves my point. Which is this...wind power as a generator of affordable electricity is a FAILURE. Without "billions" (there's that pesky number again) of our tax dollars to get 5% of our needs, it wouldn't exist. People like you saying it's working doesn't make it true.



Lol, but thats what they believe.....if i keep saying it, it is true.

There will never be a time (at least in our lifetimes) when we stop using fossil fuels for energy production. Despite the green agenda and the climate nonsense. Fossil fuels will be the most economic way to produce energy by and large. Its like talking to a wall and expecting to convince it to be a curtain.
flywise is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 09:37 PM   #85
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flywise View Post
[/b]



Lol, but thats what they believe.....if i keep saying it, it is true.



There will never be a time (at least in our lifetimes) when we stop using fossil fuels for energy production. Despite the green agenda and the climate nonsense. Fossil fuels will be the most economic way to produce energy by and large. Its like talking to a wall and expecting to convince it to be a curtain.


If we invested those billions ( there's that word again) we dump into wind for almost no benifit into infrastructure of our energy grid, we could have all we need at much cheaper costs to ALL of us, not just a few riding on the government dole.
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 09:42 PM   #86
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default

It should also be pointed out, Again, that the very creation of a wind turbine is an environmental disaster in itself. The rare earth minerals needed are so toxic, our government won't allow them to be mined here. The Chinese, however, are not hampered by restrictions. The production of wind turbine components is an environmental disaster beyond anything we would ever allow in the US. But hey, the environment in china don't count, right? https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwi-1MzGg7rVAhUCXhQKHVAMB5AQFggLMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fi nstituteforenergyresearch.org%2Fanalysis%2Fbig-winds-dirty-little-secret-rare-earth-minerals%2F&usg=AFQjCNEjnF347ZRd1vGiG3NzwdVY5eQXlA
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 09:42 PM   #87
flywise
Pope & Young
 
flywise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kempner,Tx
Hunt In: Blanco, Nacadoches,NewMexico,Colorado
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
If we invested those billions ( there's that word again) we dump into wind for almost no benifit into infrastructure of our energy grid, we could have all we need at much cheaper costs to ALL of us, not just a few riding on the government dole.
Yes sir.....but then we would have to listen to the whining 24/7 that alge fuel has not had a fair shot at success.

Why dont these libs just go out and buy their own personal little windmill for their house? Why do we have to buy a whole freakin farm load for them?
They need to start putting their money where their mouth is.
Buy your own wind,solar devices and sell the surplus back to me....i'll hold my breath
flywise is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 09:58 PM   #88
flywise
Pope & Young
 
flywise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kempner,Tx
Hunt In: Blanco, Nacadoches,NewMexico,Colorado
Default

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJcjgAdsS1k
flywise is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 10:01 PM   #89
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flywise View Post
Yes sir.....but then we would have to listen to the whining 24/7 that alge fuel has not had a fair shot at success.



Why dont these libs just go out and buy their own personal little windmill for their house? Why do we have to buy a whole freakin farm load for them?

They need to start putting their money where their mouth is.

Buy your own wind,solar devices and sell the surplus back to me....i'll hold my breath


I already know that answer. Because it costs too **** much! I had estimates done for wind power and solar. They get you with the "only 5000 dollar investment". Then when they finish, it's 15,000 min. To power half a house. 20,000 is more realistic. My light bill is 150. A month. Why would I invest 15,000 into a system with a life span of 10 years when I can get dependable electricity cheaper now? It's a no brainer.
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 10:04 PM   #90
flywise
Pope & Young
 
flywise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kempner,Tx
Hunt In: Blanco, Nacadoches,NewMexico,Colorado
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
I already know that answer. Because it costs too **** much! I had estimates done for wind power and solar. They get you with the "only 5000 dollar investment". Then when they finish, it's 15,000 min. To power half a house. 20,000 is more realistic. My light bill is 150. A month. Why would I invest 15,000 into a system with a life span of 10 years when I can get dependable electricity cheaper now? It's a no brainer.
Yep
flywise is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 10:36 PM   #91
Livin'2hunt
Ten Point
 
Livin'2hunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Hunt In: my birthday suit
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
Did you bother to read ANY of the post I just put up, or do you want to lecture me about the German economy? You say it's great, the German banking system economists say it's crashing. Believe what you want.
Those "generic references to billions" are documented NUMBERS. I just posted a study done regarding comparative analysis. If you would bother to READ it, it proves my point. Which is this...wind power as a generator of affordable electricity is a FAILURE. Without "billions" (there's that pesky number again) of our tax dollars to get 5% of our needs, it wouldn't exist. People like you saying it's working doesn't make it true.

This is precisely why he is now on my ignore list. If Varmint is faced with logic, he ducks, dodges, cites obscure basement bloggers and proclaims fact is opinion until he can conjure up a way to veer the dialogue into the weeds. Then, he disappears. Prior to his vanishing act, he goes on the lecture circuit but no one knows what the hell he is talking about.

It is a waste of good intellect trying to converse with his Varmintness. Facts be ****ed as long as his subsidized power is serving him well and cheap.
Livin'2hunt is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 10:55 PM   #92
Lostacresranch
Four Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Default Green Energy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livin'2hunt View Post
This is precisely why he is now on my ignore list. If Varmint is faced with logic, he ducks, dodges, cites obscure basement bloggers and proclaims fact is opinion until he can conjure up a way to veer the dialogue into the weeds. Then, he disappears. Prior to his vanishing act, he goes on the lecture circuit but no one knows what the hell he is talking about.



It is a waste of good intellect trying to converse with his Varmintness. Facts be ****ed as long as his subsidized power is serving him well and cheap.


Point noted. Wonder what his favorite caliber for deer hunting is?
Lostacresranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-02-2017, 11:10 PM   #93
Livin'2hunt
Ten Point
 
Livin'2hunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Hunt In: my birthday suit
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
Point noted. Wonder what his favorite caliber for deer hunting is?

Whichever caliber the Gubmint subsidizes.
Livin'2hunt is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-03-2017, 12:33 AM   #94
Vermin93
Eight Point
 
Vermin93's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Addison, TX
Hunt In: North TX, OK, TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
Did you bother to read ANY of the post I just put up, or do you want to lecture me about the German economy? You say it's great, the German banking system economists say it's crashing. Believe what you want.
Those "generic references to billions" are documented NUMBERS. I just posted a study done regarding comparative analysis. If you would bother to READ it, it proves my point. Which is this...wind power as a generator of affordable electricity is a FAILURE. Without "billions" (there's that pesky number again) of our tax dollars to get 5% of our needs, it wouldn't exist. People like you saying it's working doesn't make it true.
I'm not sure I've seen a worse interpretation of an article. The UK tabloid article you linked contains no mention of an economy that's crashing. It expresses concern for a German economy that has outperformed in recent years, perhaps too much too fast. That obviously sensationalized article is based on a recent Deutsche Bank report. The report, which is available in its entirety at the link below, was authored by the same Stefan Schneider that's quoted in your article. The content of the actual report makes your claim of a crashing German economy look foolish at best. Frankly, between your paranoia with the EIA data and your willingness to reference sensationalized tabloid journalism that you can't accurately interpret, I see no point in you and I continuing.

Here is the report. You and your tribesmen can knock yourself out trying to validate your assertion of a crashing German economy. Good luck.

https://www.dbresearch.com/PROD/DBR_...re_looming.pdf
Vermin93 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-03-2017, 12:47 AM   #95
Vermin93
Eight Point
 
Vermin93's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Addison, TX
Hunt In: North TX, OK, TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flywise View Post
Yes sir.....but then we would have to listen to the whining 24/7 that alge fuel has not had a fair shot at success.

Why dont these libs just go out and buy their own personal little windmill for their house? Why do we have to buy a whole freakin farm load for them?
They need to start putting their money where their mouth is.
Buy your own wind,solar devices and sell the surplus back to me....i'll hold my breath
The number of Americans who have installed rooftop solar and are selling surplus power back to the grid via net metering is somewhere around 1 million and rising. Unfortunately, Texas is one of the few remaining states that does not allow this.
Vermin93 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-03-2017, 06:12 AM   #96
Ironman
Pope & Young
 
Ironman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Wise County
Hunt In: Anywhere
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermin93 View Post
The number of Americans who have installed rooftop solar and are selling surplus power back to the grid via net metering is somewhere around 1 million and rising. Unfortunately, Texas is one of the few remaining states that does not allow this.
Did you say roof top solar and surplus in the same sentence? Hahahahaha! Now that's rich!
Ironman is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-03-2017, 06:33 AM   #97
flywise
Pope & Young
 
flywise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kempner,Tx
Hunt In: Blanco, Nacadoches,NewMexico,Colorado
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
Did you say roof top solar and surplus in the same sentence? Hahahahaha! Now that's rich!
I believe he is quoting some of the sales brochures handed out by the solar guys that walk around the neighborhoods. I have a client who needed to up her insurance to cover all the panels they installed on her house. She spent 50k for solar install and foam in her attic. They told her she would save 150 a month on her electric bill and might even sell some surplus back to the grid.
Sure felt bad for her
flywise is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-03-2017, 07:10 AM   #98
Livin'2hunt
Ten Point
 
Livin'2hunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Hunt In: my birthday suit
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flywise View Post
Yes sir.....but then we would have to listen to the whining 24/7 that alge fuel has not had a fair shot at success.

Why dont these libs just go out and buy their own personal little windmill for their house? Why do we have to buy a whole freakin farm load for them?
They need to start putting their money where their mouth is.
Buy your own wind,solar devices and sell the surplus back to me....i'll hold my breath

Yeah but see, that's not the way they do things. There will be no leading by example in this movement. They want to financially hamstring everyone else, all the while delusionally claiming moral superiority over us evil conservatives. These wormy libs don't want to burden themselves with such idiocy. They want to to nail this to the rest of us as a ego-boosting conquest and reap the rewards of it at the expense of others. Hypocrites. I'd bet good money, Varmint doesn't have any sort of "green energy" devices that HE has paid for.
Livin'2hunt is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-03-2017, 07:18 AM   #99
Razrbk89
Ten Point
 
Razrbk89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Central Arkansas
Hunt In: East & Northern Arkansas.
Default

Sure, the kinks haven't been worked out of all alternative energy sources, yet. It does amaze me that so many so called sportsman seem to oppose the thought of them, especially in a state that has terrible pollution and habitat loss issues.

It doesn't ALWAYS have to be political. You can be a conservative and realize by looking around that the current system just isn't going to work forever. Being a good steward of the land was beat into my head at a young age, so I may look at things different than most. I just wish people who loved the outdoors wouldn't draw a line in the sand on environmental issues because of partisan talking points.
Razrbk89 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-03-2017, 07:25 AM   #100
Ironman
Pope & Young
 
Ironman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Wise County
Hunt In: Anywhere
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razrbk89 View Post
Sure, the kinks haven't been worked out of all alternative energy sources, yet. It does amaze me that so many so called sportsman seem to oppose the thought of them, especially in a state that has terrible pollution and habitat loss issues.

It doesn't ALWAYS have to be political. You can be a conservative and realize by looking around that the current system just isn't going to work forever. Being a good steward of the land was beat into my head at a young age, so I may look at things different than most. I just wish people who loved the outdoors wouldn't draw a line in the sand on environmental issues because of partisan talking points.
When alternative energy is actually worse for the environment than current energy sources, you are not being good stewards of the land. Tell me again how batteries are good for the environment?
Ironman is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2012, TexasBowhunter.com