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Old 06-26-2017, 09:34 PM   #1
texansfan
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Default GOP is keeping Obama care.....Job Security

For me or for them?

How could the GOP stand to see 22M freeloaders keep their insurance if we keep Obamacare but they all lose health care coverage if we eliminate Obamacare.

Could it be that everyone in DC is a bleeding heart liberal snowflake that has too much compassion for those 22M folks that won't have health insurance?

May be...
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Old 06-26-2017, 10:15 PM   #2
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I see it like this:
Trump makes little changes and the Dems fight him on it.
Trump makes big changes and everybody fights him on it.
Some 'conservatives' say it's not a big enough change but how can he make bigger changes when he gets so much resistance from little changes???
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Old 06-26-2017, 10:19 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by LFD2037 View Post
I see it like this:
Trump makes little changes and the Dems fight him on it.
Trump makes big changes and everybody fights him on it.
Some 'conservatives' say it's not a big enough change but how can he make bigger changes when he gets so much resistance from little changes???
Couldn't of said it any better
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Old 06-27-2017, 04:13 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by LFD2037 View Post
I see it like this:
Trump makes little changes and the Dems fight him on it.
Trump makes big changes and everybody fights him on it.
Some 'conservatives' say it's not a big enough change but how can he make bigger changes when he gets so much resistance from little changes???
I think it's
Make little changes Dems fight him & GOP is ok
Make big changes and EVERYBODY is but hurt

At least parts of the travel ban squeaked through.

What ever happened to his H1B limit/ban???
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Old 06-27-2017, 05:52 AM   #5
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term limits....


AND free market. Let us sell health insurance across state lines like P&C. Let me if I am young and spry buy a massive deductible (but not too massive to bankrupt me) insurance.

AND

"Let freedom ring from the snow capped Rockies of Colorado!

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California!

But not only there; let freedom ring from the Stone Mountain of Georgia!

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain in Tennessee!

Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill in Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring!"
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Old 06-27-2017, 06:01 AM   #6
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term limits....


AND free market. Let us sell health insurance across state lines like P&C. Let me if I am young and spry buy a massive deductible (but not too massive to bankrupt me) insurance.

AND

"Let freedom ring from the snow capped Rockies of Colorado!

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California!

But not only there; let freedom ring from the Stone Mountain of Georgia!

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain in Tennessee!

Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill in Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring!"
So now you want the Fed to take over and get rid of a state's rights?
You do know that's what you're proposing, correct?

What we have now is a state's right to determine the regulations of the insurance products sold in their jurisdiction.
You propose to undo that.
What good will ten limits do when the outgoing politician will just tell the voters he endorses some other person that will keep their status quo.

The voters are voting these guys in each election.
This isn't automatic re-order.
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Old 06-27-2017, 06:23 AM   #7
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For me or for them?

How could the GOP stand to see 22M freeloaders keep their insurance if we keep Obamacare but they all lose health care coverage if we eliminate Obamacare.

Could it be that everyone in DC is a bleeding heart liberal snowflake that has too much compassion for those 22M folks that won't have health insurance?

May be...
The 22m is not a real number that represents " poor folks who csnt afford insurance " most of that number consist of young healthy people who did not want to buy insurance and would not have bought it had the dems not forced them to. It has always been that way. Poor people dont havr insurance now with obama care and if they do its medicare. The idea that ocare covered everyone is a falsehood
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Old 06-27-2017, 06:29 AM   #8
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But...millio...hundred of thousand of people will die.

My questions is, how does Polosi, Schumer and all of the other bobble heads know hundreds of thousand of people will die? Are they suggesting nobody died under O'care?
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Old 06-27-2017, 06:40 AM   #9
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But...millio...hundred of thousand of people will die.

My questions is, how does Polosi, Schumer and all of the other bobble heads know hundreds of thousand of people will die? Are they suggesting nobody died under O'care?
You have not heard the latest stats, under o care the American people have lost on average 20 lbs, lowest cholesterol levels in the world, and no one has died of heart disease since the day the dems passed it. Of course the day the republicans pass what ever junk they are working on 10k will die and everyday after that add an additional 10k until another dem gets elected
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Old 06-27-2017, 06:43 AM   #10
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You have not heard the latest stats, under o care the American people have lost on average 20 lbs, lowest cholesterol levels in the world, and no one has died of heart disease since the day the dems passed it. Of course the day the republicans pass what ever junk they are working on 10k will die and everyday after that add an additional 10k until another dem gets elected
Dang...impressive stats. I'm starting to wonder if I voted wrong
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Old 06-27-2017, 06:43 AM   #11
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Dang...impressive stats. I'm starting to wonder if I voted wrong
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:09 AM   #12
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Really doesn't appear to matter how we vote anymore. We were promised a full appeal. A split banana on each side of a t*rd with whip cream on top doesn't make it any less a tu*d. Sure ain't the banana split we were promised.
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:16 AM   #13
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Really doesn't appear to matter how we vote anymore. We were promised a full appeal. A split banana on each side of a t*rd with whip cream on top doesn't make it any less a tu*d. Sure ain't the banana split we were promised.
Truth

Most reasonable people want O'care to be repealed and replaced. With the premise of lower premiums and deductibles. One would think, to lower insurance premiums and deductibles the Medical and Pharmaceutical field would also need to lower their cost too. Why isn't their any discussions to lower these cost?
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:42 AM   #14
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The 22m is not a real number that represents " poor folks who csnt afford insurance " most of that number consist of young healthy people who did not want to buy insurance and would not have bought it had the dems not forced them to. It has always been that way. Poor people dont havr insurance now with obama care and if they do its medicare. The idea that ocare covered everyone is a falsehood
I'll trust the CBO stats over some hearsay on the internet.

Can you believe those GOP members or their staff didn't think this thru and analyze it like you just did?

Give me the source of your stats.
Like 7th grade you must cite your references.
Or else you're just making up lies.
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:44 AM   #15
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So now you want the Fed to take over and get rid of a state's rights?
You do know that's what you're proposing, correct?

What we have now is a state's right to determine the regulations of the insurance products sold in their jurisdiction.
You propose to undo that.
What good will ten limits do when the outgoing politician will just tell the voters he endorses some other person that will keep their status quo.

The voters are voting these guys in each election.
This isn't automatic re-order.
yes, it will be better for the consumer and not whoever is lobbying at the state. It has been my experience on a regulatory level, that states, how ever sweet they are and my preferred 'vendor' of rights, yes, even the states are susceptible to lobby's that keep monopolies in place that are ultimately bad for the consumer level. Many a state insurance commission are operating in a corrupt fashion. And until welfare is removed from the insurance process, im not sure anything will work.


yes, term limits. I might go for ones longer limits than most but when you have a lifetime members who's only chance at personal enrichment comes via lobbying and picking business winners and losers vs the free market, they need to retire from a service and go into business. It's worked for the office of the President, why not the House and Senate?

We need "creative destruction" to happen at a free market speed for us to grow and perhaps even survive. By that i mean, you dont use a record player anymore, or a cd player? The market created new ways to deliver music and now so should on insurance.
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:44 AM   #16
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But...millio...hundred of thousand of people will die.

My questions is, how does Polosi, Schumer and all of the other bobble heads know hundreds of thousand of people will die? Are they suggesting nobody died under O'care?
Why are you focused on the dems?
They have nothing to do with this and can't stop this alone.
I'm telling you clearly that it is REPUBLICANS that are saving Obamacare.

How about asking the five GOP that are threatening to derail this bill?
Those are the only ones that matter.
Stop thinking about the Dems so much
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:47 AM   #17
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Truth

Most reasonable people want O'care to be repealed and replaced. With the premise of lower premiums and deductibles. One would think, to lower insurance premiums and deductibles the Medical and Pharmaceutical field would also need to lower their cost too. Why isn't their any discussions to lower these cost?
So now you don't want a free market
You want to mandate and dictate what a business can charge for their services?
Alright, commie!

Medical insurance costs and premiums are more complex than rolling up to the drive thru and ordering a #5 with a Sweet Tea
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Old 06-27-2017, 08:29 AM   #18
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The real answer is here.
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Old 06-27-2017, 08:34 AM   #19
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The real answer is here.


They kinda of already do, if you believe this source http://www.snopes.com/members-congress-health-care/
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Old 06-27-2017, 08:59 AM   #20
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What the hell happened to the Government staying out of private sector business? I mostly hear arguments over which is better, a bullet or a noose. Nowhere in our Constitution does it permit our Government, at the point of a gun, to force American citizens to purchase any product for any reason. I don't even accept the premise of this discussion.
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:05 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
So now you don't want a free market
You want to mandate and dictate what a business can charge for their services?
Alright, commie!

Medical insurance costs and premiums are more complex than rolling up to the drive thru and ordering a #5 with a Sweet Tea
No need for name calling. I was just asking a question.

For the record. I think the Feds over stepped the line when they thought they could do a better job with insurance and mandated everyone must buy it.
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:05 AM   #22
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Really doesn't appear to matter how we vote anymore. We were promised a full appeal. A split banana on each side of a t*rd with whip cream on top doesn't make it any less a tu*d. Sure ain't the banana split we were promised.
...........period!!! It is tough to comprehend that after 5 or 6 years nobody was working on a better mouse trap to replace the current non-sense or even improve upon the old system. Just embarrassing after all the wrangling & pontification.
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:12 AM   #23
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...........period!!! It is tough to comprehend that after 5 or 6 years nobody was working on a better mouse trap to replace the current non-sense or even improve upon the old system. Just embarrassing after all the wrangling & pontification.
Even with their legislative majority they weren't worried about it. They didn't really think there would be a Republican President so they wouldn't need to be getting REAL about repealing.

Just noticed my typo, repeal not appeal. Danged oldtimers setting in.
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:14 AM   #24
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So now you don't want a free market
You want to mandate and dictate what a business can charge for their services?
Alright, commie!

Medical insurance costs and premiums are more complex than rolling up to the drive thru and ordering a #5 with a Sweet Tea
Free market? You're kidding right?

Pharmaceuticals is the biggest pay to play lobbying scheme in American history.
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:17 AM   #25
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Even with their legislative majority they weren't worried about it. They didn't really think there would be a Republican President so they wouldn't need to be getting REAL about repealing.

Just noticed my typo, repeal not appeal. Danged oldtimers setting in.
Yep! Yelling from the mountain top but don't have a better idea or a plan to actually fix the mess. Kinda like shouting fire in a movie theater! Both sides of the ailse are experts at playing the American public against themselves..............just sad at this point!
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:20 AM   #26
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i wish i had the ability to research when the "replace" got added to the promise. i think it was post election when i first heard it.
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:36 AM   #27
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i wish i had the ability to research when the "replace" got added to the promise. i think it was post election when i first heard it.
No, Trump discussed it all throughout the campaign. That's one of the biggest reasons I did not vote for him. I want it replaced with nothing. I want the Gubmint leave me and mine the hell alone.
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:49 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
So now you don't want a free market

You want to mandate and dictate what a business can charge for their services?

Alright, commie!



Medical insurance costs and premiums are more complex than rolling up to the drive thru and ordering a #5 with a Sweet Tea

You argue "states right" right up to the point of reality that OBAMACARE IS FEDERAL!

You started another healthcare thread to hook an argument and you got it. We all know. You make more money with Obamacare. That's great. Premiums are up. That screws everyone else.

Remove the state boundaries, federal mandate, and lobbyists and let the free market work

O wait, you'll make less money. So that's out.
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Old 06-27-2017, 10:03 AM   #29
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No, Trump discussed it all throughout the campaign. That's one of the biggest reasons I did not vote for him. I want it replaced with nothing. I want the Gubmint leave me and mine the hell alone.
crowd sourced research! thanks
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Old 06-27-2017, 10:03 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by flywise View Post
The 22m is not a real number that represents " poor folks who csnt afford insurance " most of that number consist of young healthy people who did not want to buy insurance and would not have bought it had the dems not forced them to. It has always been that way. Poor people dont havr insurance now with obama care and if they do its medicare. The idea that ocare covered everyone is a falsehood
This..............I think the CBO put that number at 15 million or so.

DJ
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Old 06-27-2017, 10:22 AM   #31
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i wish i had the ability to research when the "replace" got added to the promise. i think it was post election when i first heard it.
i remember his 3 main campaign tenants being: lock her up, repeal and replace, and build that wall.

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Old 06-27-2017, 10:28 AM   #32
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i wish i had the ability to research when the "replace" got added to the promise. i think it was post election when i first heard it.
He campaigned heavily on Repeal & Replace. He said it would happen simultaneous.
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Old 06-27-2017, 10:31 AM   #33
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How many of you would be fine with just repeal and no replacement? In other words, big government has no involvement with health insurance. Let the insurance companies offer plans and set price of premiums.
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Old 06-27-2017, 10:36 AM   #34
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How many of you would be fine with just repeal and no replacement? In other words, big government has no involvement with health insurance. Let the insurance companies offer plans and set price of premiums.
I would
Then, like the good old days I could choose the coverage I wanted and not the stuff i did not need. and it would be easily affordable
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Old 06-27-2017, 10:41 AM   #35
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How many of you would be fine with just repeal and no replacement? In other words, big government has no involvement with health insurance. Let the insurance companies offer plans and set price of premiums.
i would personally now because im young and healthy.

only issue i have is what do you do with the children? imo a child shouldnt go without healthcare just because their parent is irresponsible.

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Old 06-27-2017, 10:50 AM   #36
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i would personally now because im young and healthy.

only issue i have is what do you do with the children? imo a child shouldnt go without healthcare just because their parent is irresponsible.

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So you are for mandated health care?
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Old 06-27-2017, 10:58 AM   #37
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i would personally now because im young and healthy.

only issue i have is what do you do with the children? imo a child shouldnt go without healthcare just because their parent is irresponsible.

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The states have programs for children (I don't remember the name). My neighbor raised her three grand kids. Kids recieved better coverage than my kids from a cost stand point. I paid for both of my kids braces, her grand kids all had braces paid for by the State. That kin of ****** me off. Reward those that don't take responsibility...makes perfect sense
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:05 AM   #38
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So you are for mandated health care?
im conflicted. id be fine with no govt intervention for adult healthcare. (although i think it would become very exoensive)

but id want something mandated for children

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Old 06-27-2017, 11:07 AM   #39
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The states have programs for children (I don't remember the name). My neighbor raised her three grand kids. Kids recieved better coverage than my kids from a cost stand point. I paid for both of my kids braces, her grand kids all had braces paid for by the State. That kin of ****** me off. Reward those that don't take responsibility...makes perfect sense
its still not the kids fault. i get your frustration, though.

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Old 06-27-2017, 11:08 AM   #40
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im conflicted. id be fine with no govt intervention for adult healthcare. (although i think it would become very exoensive)

but id want something mandated for children

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Why just for children? How about the adults caring for the children? They cant provide for the children if they fall sick right?
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:10 AM   #41
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im conflicted. id be fine with no govt intervention for adult healthcare. (although i think it would become very exoensive)

but id want something mandated for children

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I think you have it backwards. It HAS become very expensive BECAUSE of government intervention. And the "children" argument from the left is irony at its finest.
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:16 AM   #42
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How about if you're an able body no free handouts.

The biggest problem is all of the "free" stuff. It makes it easier for the lazy to be lazier.

I think it was Alabama that recently said if you receive food stamps you must be employed or seeking employment. Once they did that something like 60% dropped out of the food stamp program.
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:24 AM   #43
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I think you have it backwards. It HAS become very expensive BECAUSE of government intervention. And the "children" argument from the left is irony at its finest.
yes, government involvement has made it expensive. with no involvement it will still be expensive. if you give young healthy people the option to opt out of paying premiums then all of the burden gets shifted onto the less healthy with more claims. (not saying im against that, but thats just how insurance works). there is no easy solution.

and is the "children argument" irony if it comes from the right or the middle? imo its a legitimate argument. if im going to be pro life and make ppl keep unplanned/unwanted babies then i should also support the programs that will support that child.

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Old 06-27-2017, 11:28 AM   #44
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Why not just do nothing and let it fail? Make it a legacy. My rate was 200.00 per month prior to Obama's care. Now they are pushing 900.00 per month. Medical providers are requesting an 85% increase for next year.
This little state of just over 2 million people and has over 900k people on medicaid. With no money to pay for the medicaid.
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:30 AM   #45
Ironman
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yes, government involvement has made it expensive. with no involvement it will still be expensive. if you give young healthy people the option to opt out of paying premiums then all of the burden gets shifted onto the less healthy with more claims. (not saying im against that, but thats just how insurance works). there is no easy solution.

and is the "children argument" irony if it comes from the right or the middle? imo its a legitimate argument. if im going to be pro life and make ppl keep unplanned/unwanted babies then i should also support the programs that will support that child.

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Good point. But mandated health care is just that. I see it as unconstitutional. It's not like it's taxation with representation. It should be a free market.
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:37 AM   #46
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yes, government involvement has made it expensive. with no involvement it will still be expensive. if you give young healthy people the option to opt out of paying premiums then all of the burden gets shifted onto the less healthy with more claims. (not saying im against that, but thats just how insurance works). there is no easy solution.

and is the "children argument" irony if it comes from the right or the middle? imo its a legitimate argument. if im going to be pro life and make ppl keep unplanned/unwanted babies then i should also support the programs that will support that child.

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You're right about no easy solution, it's a hot mess and going to continue to get messier.

Social welfare in it's current state is not sustainable. Somehow, someway accountability needs to be encouraged and rewarded.
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:39 AM   #47
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yes, government involvement has made it expensive. with no involvement it will still be expensive. if you give young healthy people the option to opt out of paying premiums then all of the burden gets shifted onto the less healthy with more claims. (not saying im against that, but thats just how insurance works). there is no easy solution.

and is the "children argument" irony if it comes from the right or the middle? imo its a legitimate argument. if im going to be pro life and make ppl keep unplanned/unwanted babies then i should also support the programs that will support that child.

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I saw a editorial cartoon depicting that exact scenario about two years ago. wish I could find it again online as it was very telling......and sobering if one truly thinks about it. Tough situation for sure. Obviously it cant work both ways. I have always said, "nobody dies in the streets" in America. But I clearly understand that the pool of folks that pay (taxes) to care for the indigent is not what it used to be. Even 95% (full employment there about's) employment rates will burden the system we used to have. Lots more has to be changed to make the goal realistic.....or we can just geaux with nada and pay as you partake in the medical system!
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:40 AM   #48
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You're right about no easy solution, it's a hot mess and going to continue to get messier.

Social welfare in it's current state is not sustainable. Somehow, someway accountability needs to be encouraged and rewarded.
U beat me to it!
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:52 AM   #49
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You're right about no easy solution, it's a hot mess and going to continue to get messier.

Social welfare in it's current state is not sustainable. Somehow, someway accountability needs to be encouraged and rewarded.
well said. i think we should vote for a very strict vetting service (like private eye type) for anybody receiving any sort of benefit. medicare, medicaid, food stamps, welfare, tax credits/breaks, student college grants, etc.

i really think most govt programs have good intentions and if you could get rid of the abuse(nearly impossible) they could benefit society.

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Old 06-27-2017, 12:39 PM   #50
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I think it's
Make little changes Dems fight him & GOP is ok
Make big changes and EVERYBODY is but hurt

At least parts of the travel ban squeaked through.

What ever happened to his H1B limit/ban???
DHS just approved H1B's and H2B's last week....Kelly needs to go...
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