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Old 08-03-2017, 08:10 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Razrbk89 View Post
Sure, the kinks haven't been worked out of all alternative energy sources, yet. It does amaze me that so many so called sportsman seem to oppose the thought of them, especially in a state that has terrible pollution and habitat loss issues.

It doesn't ALWAYS have to be political. You can be a conservative and realize by looking around that the current system just isn't going to work forever. Being a good steward of the land was beat into my head at a young age, so I may look at things different than most. I just wish people who loved the outdoors wouldn't draw a line in the sand on environmental issues because of partisan talking points.

I am personally watching this unfold on my hunting property as I type. You would be absolutely APPALLED by the destruction and devastation to once beautiful habitat and ranch land. What I have witnessed is, THOUSANDS of mature live oak trees bull dozed, full two lane caliche roads snaked throughout the property, oil and hydraulic fluid trails all over the ranch from inattentive workers, half-assed fence repair/replacement, and over-kill, over-kill, over-kill.

The part that baffles me is the roads they build. Not only are the roads two full lanes wide and now have 12" of caliche where oak trees and native grasses once stood, but they clear SIXTY yards of both sides of the roads. They clear everything down to the dirt and spray it regularly to keep down the foliage. You're telling me, this is good for the environment? What pollution and habitat loss issues are you referring to and where?? I am unaware of any.

As for the subsidies, if it were worth a crap, it would sell, kinks and all. This is a wealth-building device for insiders. Do you know who worked out the kinks for my product??? THIS GUY! I can also argue that my product has helped far more people with its stated purpose than wind energy has. Now, for its true purpose, I cannot enrich D.C. fat cats. The margins are too thin without the subsidies. Facts of life.
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:56 AM   #102
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I cringed when the land owner told us they were putting 18 of those wind turbines in our best pasture a few years ago. They started construction after hunting season and had all of them in before dove season. We dreaded going out to look at the damage. Boy were we surprised. They had hydro mulched and seeded every one of the pad sites and deer were already grazing the lush green grass oblivious to the noise the blades made. Not only that but we now had nice roads that we could drive 50mph on getting to the feeders. These big monster wind turbines have actually helped the hunting even thought they are unsightly.
Land owner got enough money to build new fences around all the property. All 100 sections and all new cross fences too.
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:58 AM   #103
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Al Gore, one the loudest cheerleaders for clean energy uses more energy in one year for his personal house than the average Citizen does in 21 years. He has also made hundreds of millions of $$$ promoting "clean energy" and will continue to make money as long as the subsidies continue.
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Old 08-03-2017, 09:16 AM   #104
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I'm not sure I've seen a worse interpretation of an article. The UK tabloid article you linked contains no mention of an economy that's crashing. It expresses concern for a German economy that has outperformed in recent years, perhaps too much too fast. That obviously sensationalized article is based on a recent Deutsche Bank report. The report, which is available in its entirety at the link below, was authored by the same Stefan Schneider that's quoted in your article. The content of the actual report makes your claim of a crashing German economy look foolish at best. Frankly, between your paranoia with the EIA data and your willingness to reference sensationalized tabloid journalism that you can't accurately interpret, I see no point in you and I continuing.

Here is the report. You and your tribesmen can knock yourself out trying to validate your assertion of a crashing German economy. Good luck.

https://www.dbresearch.com/PROD/DBR_...re_looming.pdf


No. No, no, NO. The German pending crash was not the issue. That link was in response to you claiming that wind power was working great in Germany and then YOU got into a tangent about that. I posted one article to counter your love fest with the German economic situation. THAT was not the topic at hand, just a rebuttal. And you can stick your labeling of me and "my tribes men". This is a discussion between us, and trying to make it look like a personal thing against you is childish. The TOPIC was the cost for benifits of wind power. The STUDY I referred to was the one by the university of Texas, proving that wind power costs more that all other energy sources added together. Those figures are per actual KW generated by wind, solar, gas, and coal. If you would read it, you would see that wind cost MORE for every KW generated. That's the study I was referring to.

Last edited by Lostacresranch; 08-03-2017 at 09:18 AM..
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Old 08-03-2017, 09:32 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Razrbk89 View Post
Sure, the kinks haven't been worked out of all alternative energy sources, yet. It does amaze me that so many so called sportsman seem to oppose the thought of them, especially in a state that has terrible pollution and habitat loss issues.

It doesn't ALWAYS have to be political. You can be a conservative and realize by looking around that the current system just isn't going to work forever. Being a good steward of the land was beat into my head at a young age, so I may look at things different than most. I just wish people who loved the outdoors wouldn't draw a line in the sand on environmental issues because of partisan talking points.


You can't lump all environmental issues under one umbrella and say "sportsmen" should not oppose one method because it's good for the environment. In the case of wind, we could invest those billions into upgraded grids that would be efficient and supply electricity safely for all of us. Pipelines that don't leak and replace those that do. Upgrading existing electrical plants to be cleaner for us all. Wind is a failure. It costs more to generate that any other method. The life span is 15-20 years, and replacing them is more expensive that putting them up. They use rare earth minerals that we can't even mine in the US because they are so toxic it's illegal, so we let the Chinese do it, but who cares about 1000 square miles of poisonous toxins as long as its only killing Chinese, right? Wind turbines have killed millions of birds, including endangered raptors. If you killed an eagle, what do you think would happen? A wind farm can kill hundreds, and you won't here a single outcry from "sportsmen". And as far as hunting, windfarms going up means hunting that area is going to be limited. Terrible pollution? Habitat loss? All factors of concern regarding wind farms.
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:09 AM   #106
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No. No, no, NO. The German pending crash was not the issue. That link was in response to you claiming that wind power was working great in Germany and then YOU got into a tangent about that. I posted one article to counter your love fest with the German economic situation. THAT was not the topic at hand, just a rebuttal. And you can stick your labeling of me and "my tribes men". This is a discussion between us, and trying to make it look like a personal thing against you is childish. The TOPIC was the cost for benifits of wind power. The STUDY I referred to was the one by the university of Texas, proving that wind power costs more that all other energy sources added together. Those figures are per actual KW generated by wind, solar, gas, and coal. If you would read it, you would see that wind cost MORE for every KW generated. That's the study I was referring to.
Exactly right, but libs love to take one subject matter and change it to something completely different to try an make some sort of point.
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:20 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by muzzlebrake View Post
I cringed when the land owner told us they were putting 18 of those wind turbines in our best pasture a few years ago. They started construction after hunting season and had all of them in before dove season. We dreaded going out to look at the damage. Boy were we surprised. They had hydro mulched and seeded every one of the pad sites and deer were already grazing the lush green grass oblivious to the noise the blades made. Not only that but we now had nice roads that we could drive 50mph on getting to the feeders. These big monster wind turbines have actually helped the hunting even thought they are unsightly.
Land owner got enough money to build new fences around all the property. All 100 sections and all new cross fences too.

It must depend on the company doing to work because what I have seen has been an abomination. They told use they would hydro-mulch the roadsides but then again, every single thing they have told us thus far was a blatant lie. These are the shadiest people I have ever had the misfortune of dealing with. I hope it turns out well but I am not holding my breath. We lost A LOT of hunting ground due to their excessive road system. It has been a horrible experience thus far.
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Old 08-03-2017, 12:34 PM   #108
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If fusion does not work out then maybe this will.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...ust-add-water/
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:28 PM   #109
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If fusion does not work out then maybe this will.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...ust-add-water/
That hydrogen thing has already been tried before. First, the Feds shut him down. Then, he died...........mysteriously.
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Old 08-03-2017, 05:27 PM   #110
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That hydrogen thing has already been tried before. First, the Feds shut him down. Then, he died...........mysteriously.
Sounds like the Super Collider that was supposed to be in Ellis County. Split an atom & have an endless power source but the gubmit says noooooooooo, you can't do that. They claimed it was over finances but I believe there was more to the story. Much more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superc...Super_Collider
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Old 08-03-2017, 07:18 PM   #111
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I believe he is quoting some of the sales brochures handed out by the solar guys that walk around the neighborhoods. I have a client who needed to up her insurance to cover all the panels they installed on her house. She spent 50k for solar install and foam in her attic. They told her she would save 150 a month on her electric bill and might even sell some surplus back to the grid.

Sure felt bad for her


You could be right. Those scam artists, I mean solar energy salesmen, Gave me estimates. I got costs for 15,000-20,000 for a 3KW system. That's great, but most houses need a 5kw system or more, and they start around 30,000, good ones at 50,000. They didn't bother to mention that, but I found out after running the numbers. Also that cRap about 20 year life on batteries is BS. Panels also. So in 15 years, you are looking at another 30,000. Without that tax break, you would be an idiot to dump that much into solar.
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:11 PM   #112
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You could be right. Those scam artists, I mean solar energy salesmen, Gave me estimates. I got costs for 15,000-20,000 for a 3KW system. That's great, but most houses need a 5kw system or more, and they start around 30,000, good ones at 50,000. They didn't bother to mention that, but I found out after running the numbers. Also that cRap about 20 year life on batteries is BS. Panels also. So in 15 years, you are looking at another 30,000. Without that tax break, you would be an idiot to dump that much into solar.
it's just like any other gov't program, it comes in about 100% over budget and 50% under performance, so how could you expect anything else?
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:30 AM   #113
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I dont think anyone is looking far enough into the future... I am not saying that the renewable energy sources we have right now are perfect or that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

But when you have enough people researching and more money poured into something like that you get technology investment. People have taken the wind turbine and said I wonder how we can make this better? so what do they do? they start putting the same concept to the sea.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/wha...al-energy.html

Things don't happen overnight and they don't happen fast when there is money being exchanged on both sides of the table. Those underwater turbines never stop spinning.
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:41 AM   #114
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I dont think anyone is looking far enough into the future... I am not saying that the renewable energy sources we have right now are perfect or that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

But when you have enough people researching and more money poured into something like that you get technology investment. People have taken the wind turbine and said I wonder how we can make this better? so what do they do? they start putting the same concept to the sea.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/wha...al-energy.html

Things don't happen overnight and they don't happen fast when there is money being exchanged on both sides of the table. Those underwater turbines never stop spinning.
And they don't create a dang eye sore
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Old 08-04-2017, 11:12 AM   #115
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I dont think anyone is looking far enough into the future... I am not saying that the renewable energy sources we have right now are perfect or that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

But when you have enough people researching and more money poured into something like that you get technology investment. People have taken the wind turbine and said I wonder how we can make this better? so what do they do? they start putting the same concept to the sea.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/wha...al-energy.html

Things don't happen overnight and they don't happen fast when there is money being exchanged on both sides of the table. Those underwater turbines never stop spinning.


In the case of wind power in the US today, we have invested over 200 billion over 20+ years, and we got less than 5% energy return. Wind power advocates happily tell you they supply energy for populations equivalent to the pop of colo., Kansas, and Oklahoma. That sounds great, until you run the numbers. That's less than 12 million people, out of 330 million. So 318 million of us get NOTHING for our billions we put in. Wind and solar get 54% MORE subsidies than oil, gas, nuclear, every other energy source added TOGETHER. Tell me what other area of commerce or business can get away with that level of inefficiency and still be in existence?
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Old 08-04-2017, 11:22 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
In the case of wind power in the US today, we have invested over 200 billion over 20+ years, and we got less than 5% energy return. Wind power advocates happily tell you they supply energy for populations equivalent to the pop of colo., Kansas, and Oklahoma. That sounds great, until you run the numbers. That's less than 12 million people, out of 330 million. So 318 million of us get NOTHING for our billions we put in. Wind and solar get 54% MORE subsidies than oil, gas, nuclear, every other energy source added TOGETHER. Tell me what other area of commerce or business can get away with that level of inefficiency and still be in existence?
I've always said take away the subsidies. If they survive then there is a demand and a profitable solution. If they disappear....well the proofs in the puddin so to speak.
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Old 08-04-2017, 11:24 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
In the case of wind power in the US today, we have invested over 200 billion over 20+ years, and we got less than 5% energy return. Wind power advocates happily tell you they supply energy for populations equivalent to the pop of colo., Kansas, and Oklahoma. That sounds great, until you run the numbers. That's less than 12 million people, out of 330 million. So 318 million of us get NOTHING for our billions we put in. Wind and solar get 54% MORE subsidies than oil, gas, nuclear, every other energy source added TOGETHER. Tell me what other area of commerce or business can get away with that level of inefficiency and still be in existence?
Defense companies whether it be the Big 3 or smaller companies. I was a member and my short 6 year stay I saw more money thrown at one building in my area than ever before. Also like I said wind power and solar power are not what they need to be but things that are new take time. Also another reason why it is so expensive is because we are the only ones doing it on this massive of a scale. Have you ever heard the concept of economies of scale. when there are only 1 or 2 companies building it things are expensive.

The best comparison I can put it to is when Tesla Company went and build their own manufacturing for lithium batteries that would also produce batteries for other companies. Doing this drastically dropping the overall price of the vehicle. Also another one was Ford and the Model T.

As demands grow they will become cheaper to produce in turn making it a more viable option. look at the cost of solar panels when they first came out to now.
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Old 08-04-2017, 11:30 AM   #118
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Defense companies whether it be the Big 3 or smaller companies. I was a member and my short 6 year stay I saw more money thrown at one building in my area than ever before. Also like I said wind power and solar power are not what they need to be but things that are new take time. Also another reason why it is so expensive is because we are the only ones doing it on this massive of a scale. Have you ever heard the concept of economies of scale. when there are only 1 or 2 companies building it things are expensive.



The best comparison I can put it to is when Tesla Company went and build their own manufacturing for lithium batteries that would also produce batteries for other companies. Doing this drastically dropping the overall price of the vehicle. Also another one was Ford and the Model T.



As demands grow they will become cheaper to produce in turn making it a more viable option. look at the cost of solar panels when they first came out to now.


I doubt that, but post up those figures of a defense company that blew through 200 billion for 5% return.
And just to address your solar panel cost mention, solar is even worst than wind if you figure the subsidies.
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Old 08-04-2017, 11:46 AM   #119
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The F-35 back mid last year was going to cost more that $1.45 Trillion for a plane that is no longer needed. It is slow, not very maneuverable, and cannot carry a payload of other military's planes...
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Old 08-04-2017, 01:01 PM   #120
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The F-35 back mid last year was going to cost more that $1.45 Trillion for a plane that is no longer needed. It is slow, not very maneuverable, and cannot carry a payload of other military's planes...


The F-35 is a project contracted by the US military taken on bids to provide a service. That's the DOD, a project approved by congress, and the costs overages have been addressed and approved. The COMPANY building this monstrosity has not invested 1.45 trillion dollars of THEIR money into it. Those are our dollars they are playing with. Point out how much of that is from THEIR operating capital.
As I said, no COMPANY would spent billions on a project that will get them the return on that money as poor as windpower gives us in energy.
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Old 08-04-2017, 02:03 PM   #121
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Once again...LNG is the greenest energy available and we have enough to power the World. Wind and solar dont have a chance of competing on a level playing field.
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Old 08-04-2017, 04:41 PM   #122
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The U.S. Gubmint does not belong in business of any kind. PERIOD.

As for defense spending, that is one of the few cornerstones the Gubmint is actually taxed with handling. If you have a problem with the wasteful spending then, address that separately. No one subsidizes my business because people want what I produce. If they didn't, I would fail as wind/solar should.

The argument of, "throw more money at it and it will succeed" is liberal trickery. Like our education system or the War on Poverty. Those are resounding Gubmint success stories, aren't they?!? Not hardly. If you want to spend your money on wind/solar, write the check but leave me out of it.
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Old 08-04-2017, 04:46 PM   #123
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Ethanol. Another bad idea.
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Old 08-04-2017, 04:55 PM   #124
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Thank you...yet they are fighting it tooth & nail.

You should see all the anti LNG signs all over the tip of Texas...if we could get this export going in the Brownsville ship channel, it would be a huge boom for our economy, but it's all doom & gloom, the evil petroleum companies want to ruin our eco system, terrorists will blow it up, etc.

I grew up in the Lower Laguna Madre and love the place...I knew the shrimp farms would have an adverse reaction, but not kill it. Turning natural gas into LNG for export is not going to contaminate the area. The clean burn engines that run off the same gas they are moving are remarkable. Be better off trying to keep the diesel big rigs out of the area.

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Once again...LNG is the greenest energy available and we have enough to power the World. Wind and solar dont have a chance of competing on a level playing field.
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Old 08-05-2017, 01:33 PM   #125
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You doubted the 25% and asked for a link to the data. I provided a link to the data. Nice pivot.

I previously posted that Germany has achieved 35% renewable generation while maintaining strong economic growth. I have not suggested the US is capable of achieving similar renewable generation. Nevertheless, every short and long term forecast I've seen shows continued renewable growth at the expense of coal, which I view as a major positive.

Again, when coal and natural gas are made to absorb the cost of greenhouse gas and other emissions, I'll reconsider my opinion on renewable subsidies. I am hopeful that the ideas put forth earlier this year by a group of Republican statesmen who served in the Reagan and Bush administrations will eventually gain traction.

The Republican Carbon Tax Is Republican, Say Republicans
There’s just one problem: other Republicans.


https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...x-okay/516048/
Serious questions.
1. Are you the Texansfan to alt energy? Do you in any way make money off this?

2. So can you prove that Germany's economy would not have been even stronger without spending all that money on alt energy? Or are you saying it's ok to blow countless billions of taxpayer money as long as we/they can afford it at the moment?

3. What do you mean in the second bolded part? And do you have any idea how much money oil and coal companies already pay to just about every government agency that exists? The 39 cent tax at the pump is just the final tax the consumer pays. I bet gas would be under $1 if the oil companies were not slammed with every tax imaginable. Do you know what they pay just to start drilling?
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Old 08-05-2017, 01:51 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Lostacresranch View Post
I already know that answer. Because it costs too **** much! I had estimates done for wind power and solar. They get you with the "only 5000 dollar investment". Then when they finish, it's 15,000 min. To power half a house. 20,000 is more realistic. My light bill is 150. A month. Why would I invest 15,000 into a system with a life span of 10 years when I can get dependable electricity cheaper now? It's a no brainer.
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The number of Americans who have installed rooftop solar and are selling surplus power back to the grid via net metering is somewhere around 1 million and rising. Unfortunately, Texas is one of the few remaining states that does not allow this.
Look and listen real carefully... I mean go real slow here.

If people could really buy solar AND it make or save them money.. THEY WOULD DO IT! Is that hard to understand?

And BTW - Sure 1 million have put solar on their roof. Because and only because of government subsidy. This topic is really not hard to grasp.

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I believe he is quoting some of the sales brochures handed out by the solar guys that walk around the neighborhoods. I have a client who needed to up her insurance to cover all the panels they installed on her house. She spent 50k for solar install and foam in her attic. They told her she would save 150 a month on her electric bill and might even sell some surplus back to the grid.
Sure felt bad for her
She only has to save that $150/ month for 30 years to break even. That's assuming her 50k was in a bank making zero interest LOL. And you know repairs will be needed every 5-10 years. I'm sure thats cheap.
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Old 08-05-2017, 02:21 PM   #127
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Look and listen real carefully... I mean go real slow here.



If people could really buy solar AND it make or save them money.. THEY WOULD DO IT! Is that hard to understand?



And BTW - Sure 1 million have put solar on their roof. Because and only because of government subsidy. This topic is really not hard to grasp.







She only has to save that $150/ month for 30 years to break even. That's assuming her 50k was in a bank making zero interest LOL. And you know repairs will be needed every 5-10 years. I'm sure thats cheap.


Those panels won't last that long. Neither will the batteries. 20 years tops, 15 years effective. So that savings is null and void, not to mention the increase in homeowners insurance. She could stay hooked to public electricity, and not have to worry about any of that, or go in the hole and feel good about saving the planet. Hope she don't ask about what those panels and old batteries cost to process.
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Old 08-05-2017, 03:14 PM   #128
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Vermin.... Strange cookie.


I say Drill Drill Drill. I need to make some dollars.
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Old 08-05-2017, 08:42 PM   #129
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look and listen real carefully... I mean go real slow here.

If people could really buy solar and it make or save them money.. They would do it! Is that hard to understand?

And btw - sure 1 million have put solar on their roof. Because and only because of government subsidy. This topic is really not hard to grasp.



She only has to save that $150/ month for 30 years to break even. That's assuming her 50k was in a bank making zero interest lol. And you know repairs will be needed every 5-10 years. I'm sure thats cheap.
ka-frickin-booooom!!
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