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Old 06-08-2017, 03:12 PM   #51
systemnt
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Originally Posted by Hank Hill View Post
Granted he rattled those shots off quickly, but I never found his marksmanship to be some kind of supernatural feat, he was not that far away.
...key in the power of the scope... the size of the target...the fact it was moving... the downward trajectory, whatever the winds were like, the caliber, the weapon itself, and doing it from a standing position ... then add in the distances...and times..
He was incredible.
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Old 06-08-2017, 03:29 PM   #52
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Granted he rattled those shots off quickly, but I never found his marksmanship to be some kind of supernatural feat, he was not that far away.
Agreed. I was none too impressed. I revert back to the head shot. As previously stated, I have not seen the vast majority of blood, tissue and body travel toward the direction of any rifle bullet.

As part of my project research, I used a 6.5 Swede (a close ballistic match to the 6.5 Carcano with the 160 gr round nose) and shot a mix of cantaloupes, melons and tomatoes with the round from the same approximate distance from the 6th floor window. Twenty in total. At 8 feet, I recorded each shot at 1/1000 speed. Not a single time, not one, did the meat or skin of the fruit travel toward me when struck by the bullet. The fruit did not fall or roll toward the shot either. I'm no Sheldon Cooper but physics is what physics is.
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Old 06-08-2017, 04:32 PM   #53
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I saw a new theory the other day. Oswald was shooting from the book depository and hit Kennedy. When the Secret Service heard the shots an agent pulled out his M16 and had an accidental discharge which hit Kennedy in the back of the head.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/ac...un-f2D11634276

I just saw the date. It's not new, but I just saw it a month ago.
I have seen this also and it sounds plausible.
I think that the M-16 was a fairly new rifle at that time, maybe the agent was unfamiliar with it?
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Old 06-08-2017, 04:40 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Livin'2hunt View Post
Agreed. I was none too impressed. I revert back to the head shot. As previously stated, I have not seen the vast majority of blood, tissue and body travel toward the direction of any rifle bullet.

As part of my project research, I used a 6.5 Swede (a close ballistic match to the 6.5 Carcano with the 160 gr round nose) and shot a mix of cantaloupes, melons and tomatoes with the round from the same approximate distance from the 6th floor window. Twenty in total. At 8 feet, I recorded each shot at 1/1000 speed. Not a single time, not one, did the meat or skin of the fruit travel toward me when struck by the bullet. The fruit did not fall or roll toward the shot either. I'm no Sheldon Cooper but physics is what physics is.
"Back, and to the left"
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Old 06-08-2017, 04:42 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by systemnt View Post
...key in the power of the scope... the size of the target...the fact it was moving... the downward trajectory, whatever the winds were like, the caliber, the weapon itself, and doing it from a standing position ... then add in the distances...and times..
He was incredible.
With some practice hitting a watermelon sized target @ under 100 meters, even a moving target, is not at all impossible. The wind wouldn't even play much of a factor at that distance.
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Old 06-08-2017, 05:15 PM   #56
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"Back, and to the left"
Yep. A 40 yard chip shot from the 2:00 position to right front hairline of Kennedy's head would, in fact, cause his head to lurch toward the 7:00 position. I wonder about folks who try to dispute basic physics. Especially, forensic scientists.
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Old 06-08-2017, 05:17 PM   #57
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With some practice hitting a watermelon sized target @ under 100 meters, even a moving target, is not at all impossible. The wind wouldn't even play much of a factor at that distance.
Wind is an inconsequential factor on a 160 gr 6.5 mm bullet at 100 meters shooting at a moving target.
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Old 06-08-2017, 07:48 PM   #58
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There was a long list of people who wanted him dead

His party
The republicans
The mafia (for numerous reasons, I'm particularly fond of Sam Giancana's telling)
His wife (Jackie wanted a divorce, Joe told her to live with it)
The Russians
The Cubans
The Vietnamese

All this is only a part of what fuels all these wonderful conspiracy theories. It has kept me entertained with books, interviews and documentaries.


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Old 06-09-2017, 12:41 AM   #59
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The 6.5 Carcano was a notoriously bad shooting gun. In WW2, it was joked that they were so bad so the Italians wouldn't accidentally hit some one, make them mad and they would conquer Italy again.

I just think it's sad that no one will be alive that was alive when it happened will get to see the reports when they are finally revealed to the public. If it went down like they say then why is it still sealed? What would it hurt now?
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Old 06-09-2017, 08:49 AM   #60
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bullets do weird things in people. I watched two friends get shot by a sniper in our ao in Afghanistan. Both under the right arm pit as they pointed to something. Guy 1 bullet goes in arm pit exits just above right hip. Bullet went in curved back and exited. The guy didn't have a damaged organ at all and walked away. Guy two exact same shot and exit. Guy didn't have an intact organ left dead before he hit the ground. I wasn't alive for the Kennedy assassination but i do know bullets do weird things.
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Old 06-09-2017, 08:54 AM   #61
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I'm pretty convinced, by history, that whatever is sealed ...isnt going to be any more conclusive that what we've already been fed/told...
It was just a way of closing the door with some finality to get people to move on and stop asking questions...
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Old 06-09-2017, 09:20 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Draco View Post
I just think it's sad that no one will be alive that was alive when it happened will get to see the reports when they are finally revealed to the public. If it went down like they say then why is it still sealed? What would it hurt now?
Well the files are due to be released October 26th, 2017, so we may know more sooner. But as systemnt said, I wouldn't hold my breath for closure.
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Old 06-09-2017, 09:34 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by tward1604 View Post
bullets do weird things in people. I watched two friends get shot by a sniper in our ao in Afghanistan. Both under the right arm pit as they pointed to something. Guy 1 bullet goes in arm pit exits just above right hip. Bullet went in curved back and exited. The guy didn't have a damaged organ at all and walked away. Guy two exact same shot and exit. Guy didn't have an intact organ left dead before he hit the ground. I wasn't alive for the Kennedy assassination but i do know bullets do weird things.

Sorry about your friends. Yes, you are correct, bullets do funky things when they strike a body. Two years ago, I shot a doe at 125 yards with a 260 Rem. Granted, different bullet than the 160 gr round nose (I was using a Sierra 120 gr Pro-Hunter) but the terminal ballistics were inexplicable.

I shot her in the base of the neck on her left side, some bullet/bone passed straight thru leaving a 1.5" exit but there were 4 more severe exit wounds of differing locale and severity as follows:

1. Front-center chest, 1" exit
2. Left scapula, destroyed 1/4" exit
3. Low stomach near milkers, 3/4" exit
4. Right side 5th & 6th ribs, 2" exit

That was one bullet (yes, a hunting bullet) but they do crazy things. The "Magic Bullet" theory is laughable. That theory also lives under the impression that only one bullet did the damage. Too much room for hyperbole for me adhere to it. They may convince some people but this guy isn't one.
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Old 06-09-2017, 09:38 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Livin'2hunt View Post
Sorry about your friends. Yes, you are correct, bullets do funky things when they strike a body. Two years ago, I shot a doe at 125 yards with a 260 Rem. Granted, different bullet than the 160 gr round nose (I was using a Sierra 120 gr Pro-Hunter) but the terminal ballistics were inexplicable.

I shot her in the base of the neck on her left side, some bullet/bone passed straight thru leaving a 1.5" exit but there were 4 more severe exit wounds of differing locale and severity as follows:

1. Front-center chest, 1" exit
2. Left scapula, destroyed 1/4" exit
3. Low stomach near milkers, 3/4" exit
4. Right side 5th & 6th ribs, 2" exit

That was one bullet (yes, a hunting bullet) but they do crazy things. The "Magic Bullet" theory is laughable. That theory also lives under the impression that only one bullet did the damage. Too much room for hyperbole for me adhere to it. They may convince some people but this guy isn't one.
Man, thats wild. I've had a neck shot where there was an exit on the other side of the point of entry, but the bulk of the slug rolled down the spine and ended up coming out of the top of the back, behind the shoulders.
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Old 06-09-2017, 10:57 AM   #65
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Bush senior, Clinton, and the CIA are behind it all.
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Old 06-09-2017, 11:02 AM   #66
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Bullets do weird things, but they do not end up undeformed in perfect condition after going through multiple subjects/objects, so they can match the shooter's gun for ballistics & make it a closed case...whole deal is creepy.
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Old 06-09-2017, 12:03 PM   #67
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Bullets do weird things, but they do not end up undeformed in perfect condition after going through multiple subjects/objects, so they can match the shooter's gun for ballistics & make it a closed case...whole deal is creepy.


There is a documentary that I recently found on Netflix, where a couple of ballistics experts try a run at solving it.

The FMJ bullet in the Carcano, didn't deform when shot into pine 1x4. Totally bizarre.

It was called NOVA: Cold Case JFK
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Old 06-09-2017, 05:50 PM   #68
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Bullets do weird things, but they do not end up undeformed in perfect condition after going through multiple subjects/objects, so they can match the shooter's gun for ballistics & make it a closed case...whole deal is creepy.
If you're referring to the bullet "found" on JFK's gurney in Parkland Hospital, you are correct. I would venture to say, the 160 gr RN FMJ fired from that cartridge would almost never stop in the human body at that range. It would pass thru and continue on, perhaps on a different trajectory.

I also expect no new revelations with the release of the documents. I fully expect much of it to be redacted and blacked out. It still provides us a topic of discussion here on TBH.
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Old 06-10-2017, 09:35 PM   #69
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Here is an interview with the actual assassin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtjnLGc01I4
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Old 06-12-2017, 07:03 AM   #70
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The laser studies prove it was Oswald. Everything lines up perfectly.

Kennedy's back brace kept him upright for the fatal round.

Fun to play the conspiracy game though. Here's a cell phone video I captured from a guy who was there that still peddles memorabilia at the grassy knoll.

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Old 06-12-2017, 10:39 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Legdog View Post
The laser studies prove it was Oswald. Everything lines up perfectly.

Kennedy's back brace kept him upright for the fatal round.

Fun to play the conspiracy game though. Here's a cell phone video I captured from a guy who was there that still peddles memorabilia at the grassy knoll.

Grassy Knoll Talk - YouTube

Assuming it was Oswald, and Oswald alone, the other question is why. Was it mafia related? If so, then Ruby's involvement would make sense, as he was a club owner in Dallas and rumored to have ties to the mafia. Just curious what those that have done extensive research think the motive was behind the shooting.
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Old 06-15-2017, 02:41 PM   #72
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Acted alone.

I guess he figured he would make the best contribution possible to the communist cause by shooting the president.. Had he had access to a nuke he probably would have nuked DC.

As for the shots, with the right motivation I'm sure there are a couple hundred TBH members who can make those shots and few of us already have.
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Old 06-15-2017, 04:38 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by oktx View Post
I saw a new theory the other day. Oswald was shooting from the book depository and hit Kennedy. When the Secret Service heard the shots an agent pulled out his M16 and had an accidental discharge which hit Kennedy in the back of the head.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/ac...un-f2D11634276

I just saw the date. It's not new, but I just saw it a month ago.
Out of everything I have ever heard this makes the most sense
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:16 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
Assuming it was Oswald, and Oswald alone, the other question is why. Was it mafia related? If so, then Ruby's involvement would make sense, as he was a club owner in Dallas and rumored to have ties to the mafia. Just curious what those that have done extensive research think the motive was behind the shooting.
and then sometimes there is no reason other than some jackwad just didn't like the person that they killed.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:24 PM   #75
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and then sometimes there is no reason other than some jackwad just didn't like the person that they killed.
So you think Ruby shot Oswald because he didn't like him?
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:19 PM   #76
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So you think Ruby shot Oswald because he didn't like him?
surely I do not know why anyone shot anyone else, but Ruby was a supposedly die hard JFK fan, so yeah; he probably didn't like Oswald very much. but we probably will never know.
I am pretty sure there is more to the story than any of us knows right now.
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:05 PM   #77
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surely I do not know why anyone shot anyone else, but Ruby was a supposedly die hard JFK fan, so yeah; he probably didn't like Oswald very much. but we probably will never know.
I am pretty sure there is more to the story than any of us knows right now.

The number of people who have vanished that were even loosely associated with the JFK case is rivaled only by the list of Clinton friends that met their "unfortunate" and early demise.
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:10 PM   #78
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JFK is one of my favorite conspiracy reads. So many different possible players, pieces, motivations. Big wormhole that you'll never dig out of.

Was a crazy time back then, Cuba, Russia, Asia, drugs, mafia, the federal reserve, Marilyn Monroe. JFK stepped on a ton of toes!

I don't even have a theory after all the time I put into it. I just think it wasn't Oswald acting alone. And he may have been a KGB mole or whatever. He was there a while. But I think maybe thought he was acting as part of a bigger plan, but he was not given details in case something happened. Like him getting taken alive. Which did...


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Old 06-16-2017, 12:29 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Legdog View Post
The laser studies prove it was Oswald. Everything lines up perfectly.

Kennedy's back brace kept him upright for the fatal round.

Fun to play the conspiracy game though. Here's a cell phone video I captured from a guy who was there that still peddles memorabilia at the grassy knoll.

Grassy Knoll Talk - YouTube
And that right there my friends is probably about as accurate of an account of watch actually happened as you will ever hear...
That man has nothing to gain and nothing to hide.. Unlike politicians or the FBI.


If watching the corruptness of FBI director Comey, over the last year, doesn't convince you that we are constantly fed lies by our top officials in our government and that there is always a hidden agenda and that they cannot be trusted under any circumstances then nothing ever will..
Telling the truth is not how they operate..

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Old 06-26-2017, 11:49 PM   #80
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Watch the Zapruader film. The fatal head shot. That is all the proof neaded to prove at least two shooters. Forget the fact of all the witnesses that heard shots from grassy knoll.

Last edited by BrandonA; 06-27-2017 at 12:06 AM..
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Old 06-28-2017, 06:56 AM   #81
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Lee was not alone, I'm confident in that
This^^^

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I went down the conspiracy-theory wormhole over 30 years ago. A shelf in my house groans with the weight of books I read about it. Every time a new one came out I gobbled it right up. It took a long time but I eventually came full circle and now believe that Oswald acted alone. I also gave up arguing about it years ago. I finally realized that very few - if any - of the people in the "KACT community" have followed the evidence wherever it leads. All start with the unshakeable belief that there was a conspiracy of one kind or another then only consider evidence that supports their theory. Arguing with them is like trying to talk a fervent believer out of their religious faith - believing does something for them that goes beyond reason. My favorite of the KACT debunking books is Gerald Posner's "Case Closed". It is a very detailed, well researched and footnoted book (it is also very long) Of course the cottage industry that is KACT felt threatened by it so here came a slew of books to debunk the debunkers book. It will never end, and few minds will be changed. What may look like organized cover-ups was mostly law enforcement bungling, buck-passing and incompetence (in Dallas and at the Federal level) I understand it is hard to accept that one angry loon could take out the most powerful man in the world but throughout history, sometimes weird and unlikely things happen. And sometimes coincidences are just that - coincidences.
Ok, I can buy that. However, TWO angry loons (LHO and Ruby) who took out huge players, all in one conspiracy? When Ruby killed LHO, that's when you get the sense that someone is trying to silence the patsy. I really liked your post though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livin'2hunt View Post
Yep. A 40 yard chip shot from the 2:00 position to right front hairline of Kennedy's head would, in fact, cause his head to lurch toward the 7:00 position. I wonder about folks who try to dispute basic physics. Especially, forensic scientists.
Yep

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Originally Posted by systemnt View Post
I'm pretty convinced, by history, that whatever is sealed ...isnt going to be any more conclusive that what we've already been fed/told...
It was just a way of closing the door with some finality to get people to move on and stop asking questions...
Agree 100%^^^^^^^

Fascinating subject and always will be. Too many witnesses described gunshots from different areas, combined with head trauma that doesn't match what they're telling us happened, combined with a strip club owner killing the man who allegedly assassinated the POTUS in plain view of the world during basically a parade and it equals a heck of a story that they'll still be talking about and debating 100 years from now.
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Old 06-28-2017, 08:53 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Daniel75 View Post
This^^^



Ok, I can buy that. However, TWO angry loons (LHO and Ruby) who took out huge players, all in one conspiracy? When Ruby killed LHO, that's when you get the sense that someone is trying to silence the patsy. I really liked your post though.



Yep



Agree 100%^^^^^^^

Fascinating subject and always will be. Too many witnesses described gunshots from different areas, combined with head trauma that doesn't match what they're telling us happened, combined with a strip club owner killing the man who allegedly assassinated the POTUS in plain view of the world during basically a parade and it equals a heck of a story that they'll still be talking about and debating 100 years from now.

And the commission formed in '79 that came back and said a conspiracy likely took place and recommended that the DOJ open an investigation. Forget the number of key witnesses that have all died, many mysteriously or under suspicious reasons.
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:30 AM   #83
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If there were nothing to hide then why seal it for 50 years and now seal it for 50 more years. No one that was alive when it happened will be alive when it is unsealed so no one can be held accountable or their families be embarrassed by it.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:36 PM   #84
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This is my pet conspiracy theory. I always believed, and honestly hoped, there was something bigger behind it all. After entirely too much reading and video watching I came to the conclusion that Oswald did it and did it on his own. Guy was a loser who had already tried to assassinate someone 6 months before. Ruby thought he would be some type of hero for killing Oswald. If you believe he couldn't have made the shot I guess you've never been to the location because there are guys on here who could make it with a bow. I've never seen a conspiracy anomaly that didn't have a logical answer. It was about five years ago when I took the time to look into this and I'm with Jerp and just don't even debate it anymore.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:40 PM   #85
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^^^X3
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:48 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CEO View Post
This is my pet conspiracy theory. I always believed, and honestly hoped, there was something bigger behind it all. After entirely too much reading and video watching I came to the conclusion that Oswald did it and did it on his own. Guy was a loser who had already tried to assassinate someone 6 months before. Ruby thought he would be some type of hero for killing Oswald. If you believe he couldn't have made the shot I guess you've never been to the location because there are guys on here who could make it with a bow. I've never seen a conspiracy anomaly that didn't have a logical answer. It was about five years ago when I took the time to look into this and I'm with Jerp and just don't even debate it anymore.
I have been shooting bows for 30 years and I highly doubt I could make a head shot at a moving target at 88 yards.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:55 PM   #87
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Russians
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Old 07-08-2017, 01:37 AM   #88
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Anyone catch tonight's episode of Ancient Aliens? Interesting theory on Kennedy's assassination.
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Old 07-08-2017, 07:58 AM   #89
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Anyone catch tonight's episode of Ancient Aliens? Interesting theory on Kennedy's assassination.
Bigfoot did it
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:45 PM   #90
BrandonA
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This is my pet conspiracy theory. I always believed, and honestly hoped, there was something bigger behind it all. After entirely too much reading and video watching I came to the conclusion that Oswald did it and did it on his own. Guy was a loser who had already tried to assassinate someone 6 months before. Ruby thought he would be some type of hero for killing Oswald. If you believe he couldn't have made the shot I guess you've never been to the location because there are guys on here who could make it with a bow. I've never seen a conspiracy anomaly that didn't have a logical answer. It was about five years ago when I took the time to look into this and I'm with Jerp and just don't even debate it anymore.
Then explain to me how something is shot from behind and it's head is blown backwards and the back of the skull is blown away and mrs Kennedy retrieving the brain matter of the trunk of the car.
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Old 07-08-2017, 09:01 PM   #91
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Then explain to me how something is shot from behind and it's head is blown backwards and the back of the skull is blown away and mrs Kennedy retrieving the brain matter of the trunk of the car.
Good interview regarding that subject. Head moving backwards in particular is near the end.

http://www.npr.org/2013/11/22/246734...-cold-case-jfk
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Old 10-26-2017, 09:36 AM   #92
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so, do we get all the answers today?
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Old 10-26-2017, 09:42 AM   #93
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr4vgHsmNEk

Here's an interview with James Files claims he killed JFK if you guys have time listen to his whole interview he talks about how, why, and who was involved. Also he talks about Top secret Government stuff also about the CIA, George H Bush Etc. Who knows if its truth but the guy seems to know to much for it to be made up. I watched the whole interview

Last edited by jjaimes; 10-26-2017 at 09:46 AM..
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Old 10-26-2017, 12:24 PM   #94
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Lee acted alone, I'm confident in that.
Could he have been provoked by the KGB? I won't rule it out but it's more likey he was just a lone nut job.
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Old 10-26-2017, 03:13 PM   #95
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Kennedy was going to end the Federal Reserve.
This...last to Presidents that wanted to investigate the Federal Reserve were both shot... Kennedy and Reagan
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:08 PM   #96
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I'll have to disagree with the Lone Gunman theory. If it was a Lone Gunman, why would Jack Ruby whack Oswald in such a way he did?
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:58 PM   #97
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So you think Ruby shot Oswald because he didn't like him?
My dad (long gone now) always believed Ruby was tied in with the mafia and was terminally ill. The mafia promised to take care of Ruby's family for the "favor".
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:33 PM   #98
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My dad (long gone now) always believed Ruby was tied in with the mafia and was terminally ill. The mafia promised to take care of Ruby's family for the "favor".
I heard the mafia angle as well. It was revenge for Robert Kennedy's actions.
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Old 10-26-2017, 06:46 PM   #99
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I saw a new theory the other day. Oswald was shooting from the book depository and hit Kennedy. When the Secret Service heard the shots an agent pulled out his M16 and had an accidental discharge which hit Kennedy in the back of the head.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/ac...un-f2D11634276

I just saw the date. It's not new, but I just saw it a month ago.
I have heard this before and it sounds possible. hence the cover-up, the secret service sure wouldn't want to be the ones responsible for the presidents death.
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Old 10-26-2017, 09:04 PM   #100
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Lee acted alone, I'm confident in that.
Could he have been provoked by the KGB? I won't rule it out but it's more likey he was just a lone nut job.
How can you be so confident? 1979 FBI/CIA admitted that clay shaw was an informant ? Or congress admitting a 2nd shooter possible. Why, even today , all records won't be released ? One shooter...bull****
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