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Old 03-27-2018, 09:06 AM   #1
npe001
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My parents bought some property in Madisonville about 7 months ago and I am starting to think about the future of the property and improvements that we can make to help the deer in the long run.

Question

1) how much am I looking at for some white oaks in the five gallon range. (is this the size to buy?)

2) Is this the go to for oak trees as far as planting with deer in mind?

3) Where is the best place to get them?

Thanks for the help
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Old 03-27-2018, 09:08 AM   #2
Outbreaker
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Before I spent alot of money on oaks I would get the soil tested. I know that water oaks do well in that area.
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Old 03-27-2018, 08:30 PM   #3
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Can't answer any of your 3 questions. But if you do spend the money on the trees, I would highly recommend that you put cages/fencing around them for protection. Apparently, the deer will think you planted them just so they will have a nice place to rub their antlers.
If they rub the bark off all the way around, the tree will die, at least from there up. It may or may not sprout again lower or from the root ball.
Ask me how I know.
Also, the extention agent for my area was very helpful in recommending the types of trees that will do well here.
Good luck to you.
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Old 03-27-2018, 08:37 PM   #4
BrandonA
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Check out Dustin Chestnuts for that part of Texas.
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Old 03-27-2018, 08:42 PM   #5
Wits_End
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Mossy oak has a nursery called native nurseries. Specializes in oaks and wildlife trees. Supposedly they select trees that are naturally fast growing.
I bought 24 oaks with protective tree tubes for about $250 shipped. I went with the mixed package to see which would grow the best as well as to just have variety. These trees come bare root and about 18" tall. Videoes show trees reaching 6ft tall in one year if maintained correctly.

Sawtooth oaks are popular as they can start producng in 6 years if pruned and taken care of. Most other oaks take 15-20 years. I plan to buy 24 sawtooths next year as well as 24 of other types.
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Old 03-27-2018, 08:49 PM   #6
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I would pick acorns from heavy producing white oaks or water oaks in your area and plant multiple acorns in each cage at the place so some can die any you haven't lost time (least amount of time and energy investment). That way there is not transplant shock. You could also plant acorn in tall pots so you have long taps roots then plant in cages in the fall. If you are gonna buy trees find a nursery near you that has oaks from your area. The problem with buying trees is that they are usually grown getting water daily, become root bound, then you plant at your ranch and they need water weekly which is tough to do. The size of the tree is usually disproportionate to the size of the tap root they have so you are fighting a losing battle. Fertilizing saplings with polygon fertilizer each yr after established will do wonders but only fertilize in winter/ spring not summer unless you can water.
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:01 PM   #7
J&M Hamilton10
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Get chinkapin oaks, white oak family, fast growing produce acorns fast as well.
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Old 03-28-2018, 06:03 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Doe Doe Spike View Post
I would pick acorns from heavy producing white oaks or water oaks in your area and plant multiple acorns in each cage at the place so some can die any you haven't lost time (least amount of time and energy investment). That way there is not transplant shock. You could also plant acorn in tall pots so you have long taps roots then plant in cages in the fall. If you are gonna buy trees find a nursery near you that has oaks from your area. The problem with buying trees is that they are usually grown getting water daily, become root bound, then you plant at your ranch and they need water weekly which is tough to do. The size of the tree is usually disproportionate to the size of the tap root they have so you are fighting a losing battle. Fertilizing saplings with polygon fertilizer each yr after established will do wonders but only fertilize in winter/ spring not summer unless you can water.
I planted acorns from the live oaks in my front yard 18 years ago. They are now bigger than the transplanted oaks the builder put in front (their parents) they are close to 25-30ft tall.
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Old 03-28-2018, 06:05 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Wits_End View Post
Mossy oak has a nursery called native nurseries. Specializes in oaks and wildlife trees. Supposedly they select trees that are naturally fast growing.
I bought 24 oaks with protective tree tubes for about $250 shipped. I went with the mixed package to see which would grow the best as well as to just have variety. These trees come bare root and about 18" tall. Videoes show trees reaching 6ft tall in one year if maintained correctly.

Sawtooth oaks are popular as they can start producng in 6 years if pruned and taken care of. Most other oaks take 15-20 years. I plan to buy 24 sawtooths next year as well as 24 of other types.
Both live oak and water oak produce early as well. Both are white oak family so the produce every year and deer hammer them.
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Old 03-28-2018, 08:30 AM   #10
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Can't answer any of your 3 questions. But if you do spend the money on the trees, I would highly recommend that you put cages/fencing around them for protection. Apparently, the deer will think you planted them just so they will have a nice place to rub their antlers.
If they rub the bark off all the way around, the tree will die, at least from there up. It may or may not sprout again lower or from the root ball.
Ask me how I know.
Also, the extention agent for my area was very helpful in recommending the types of trees that will do well here.
Good luck to you.

This and plant at least two dozen.
But the cages (or those tubes) are great insurance that the deer won't get them
And do proper weed maintenance
Clear a 5x5 area completely free from weeds/grasses of where you want to plant your tree then use that black fabric weed mat and a few inches of mulch on top of the mat in order to keep weeds from robbing your tree of nutrients.
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Old 03-28-2018, 09:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npe001 View Post
My parents bought some property in Madisonville about 7 months ago and I am starting to think about the future of the property and improvements that we can make to help the deer in the long run.

Question

1) how much am I looking at for some white oaks in the five gallon range. (is this the size to buy?)

2) Is this the go to for oak trees as far as planting with deer in mind?

3) Where is the best place to get them?

Thanks for the help

There's a guy on here in the classifieds selling a bunch of oaks.
Real good deal.
I think he's in the Vidor/Orange area but he travels and delivers all over Texas.

Check him out
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Old 03-28-2018, 09:44 AM   #12
tps7742
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I have a few water oak varieties I planted about 16 years ago in the Sam Rayburn lake area. The tallest one is about 25' at this time. There isn't allot of live oaks in the area is the reason I planted them. I guy up the road from me planted a variety called bur oak I believe and his has out grown mine by leaps and bounds.
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Old 03-28-2018, 11:34 AM   #13
Wits_End
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Both live oak and water oak produce early as well. Both are white oak family so the produce every year and deer hammer them.
I have always read 20 years minimum on these.
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Old 03-28-2018, 06:14 PM   #14
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I have always read 20 years minimum on these.
Nope. My live oaks in my back yard are 18ys old and have been producing for over 10 years and my neighbors water oak is about 15 years has been producing for almost 10 years.

The amount of acorns WILL depend on the size of the tree. When the small ones start it will be just a few. Now my 18yo 25-30 foot trees flood the ground with so many acorns it makes it painful to walk.
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Old 03-28-2018, 06:35 PM   #15
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Great to know. I planted 6 water oaks
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Old 03-28-2018, 08:27 PM   #16
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Not sure where your planting. But “native “ is always best. Their native for good reason in most cases. They can handle the moisture, native insects and other pest.

White oaks are the preferred, IF they will thrive in that area. Also look into years before they produce. Burr oaks in my area do great.... but take around 50 years to produce (so I’ve been told)
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Old 03-28-2018, 08:28 PM   #17
Doe Doe Spike
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White oak acorns ( white oak, post oak, live oak, burn oak, chinkapin) are sweeter and preferred early in the season. Red oak acorns ( water oaks, shumard, willow oaks, Texas oaks) are more bitter but have more tannins/ fats that help the acorn stay good for longer on the ground. They also are more consistent producers year to year than the white oak family.
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Old 03-28-2018, 08:31 PM   #18
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I would also put shade cloth or give afternoon shade to my saplings during the summer. The Texas sun cooks young trees.
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Old 03-29-2018, 05:49 AM   #19
Outbreaker
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Originally Posted by Doe Doe Spike View Post
White oak acorns ( white oak, post oak, live oak, burn oak, chinkapin) are sweeter and preferred early in the season. Red oak acorns ( water oaks, shumard, willow oaks, Texas oaks) are more bitter but have more tannins/ fats that help the acorn stay good for longer on the ground. They also are more consistent producers year to year than the white oak family.
Red Oaks only produce acorns every other year. Their acorn growth is a 2 year cycle. How is that more consistent year to year?
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:44 AM   #20
tps7742
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My live oaks/water oaks have been producing acorns for several years. The red oak I planted 16 plus years ago still looks small for its age.
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:56 AM   #21
BitBackShot
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One thing I'd ask first is what the surrounding land holds and what's already there. If you're already completely surrounded by oaks and have a bunch on the property, it may be a wasted effort. There are a lot of fruit trees you can plant that will both provide mast/nutrition and serve as attractants.

Deer absolutely love pears, plums, apples, and peaches. Not so much on citrus. You can buy Mexican plums or wild rainbow plums (also known as sand plums) and they will form thickets that provide cover and a heavy crop of fruit in May/June.

Just throwing out alternatives if you're already covered up in oaks. Of course you can do both as well. Fruit trees grow much faster and produce much sooner on average.
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:35 AM   #22
cva34
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Of course Oaks native to area generally do well But most are Slow grow and produce way down road...So do not count them out...Sawtooth oaks chinese oaks we called..I was on lease north of Douglass and we had one big food plot that had about a 100y dia circ..planted with them..which was only probably 20% of food plot..The firs 5y or so I though a Flop..But then they really started to grow in size and produce...They dropped acorns early and deer loved them
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:51 AM   #23
Tracy moss
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Dustan chestnuts and sawtooth oaks produces quicker
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:14 PM   #24
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I would buy bare root trees. Legg Creek farm is who i have been using.
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:34 PM   #25
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I would buy bare root trees. Legg Creek farm is who i have been using.
I plant acorns in 5 gallon buckets then transplant once 18" tall. They grow faster if the roots are never disturbed.

The 2 in the back yard are bigger than the ones in the front by 10 feet and they are from the acorns of the ones in the front yard. That makes them probably 5-10 years younger.
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:51 PM   #26
npe001
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Thanks for all of the good information.
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Old 03-29-2018, 01:16 PM   #27
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Someone on TBH was selling some trees just recently but I cannot remember who.
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Old 03-29-2018, 03:31 PM   #28
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I plant acorns in 5 gallon buckets then transplant once 18" tall. They grow faster if the roots are never disturbed.



The 2 in the back yard are bigger than the ones in the front by 10 feet and they are from the acorns of the ones in the front yard. That makes them probably 5-10 years younger.


A bare root tree planted before budding out will out grow a container grown tree every time.

Trees grow best in the ground.

Starting trees in containers from acorn is great. You can weed out the slow growers, the ones that donít germinate, the ugly ones. But cost for 50 container grown trees shipped vs 50 bare root trees is huge.

Buying vs growing

We are talking about 18-24 inch tree bare root is 4-5 bucks each.


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Old 03-29-2018, 05:24 PM   #29
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A bare root tree planted before budding out will out grow a container grown tree every time.

Trees grow best in the ground.

Starting trees in containers from acorn is great. You can weed out the slow growers, the ones that donít germinate, the ugly ones. But cost for 50 container grown trees shipped vs 50 bare root trees is huge.

Buying vs growing

We are talking about 18-24 inch tree bare root is 4-5 bucks each.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Container is fine if you plant them before the roots every know they are in a container. But if you are buying that never happens. You are right about outgrowing though.

I have free acorns in the front yard and plenty in the back. Free buckets and soil. And a choice of Live Oaks or water oaks. Just no place to plant them......LOL
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Old 03-31-2018, 02:40 AM   #30
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Red Oaks only produce acorns every other year. Their acorn growth is a 2 year cycle. How is that more consistent year to year?
Red oaks are biennials which means they flower on previous years growth and are not reliant upon current rainfall. White oaks will produce annually if there is rain they produce acorns if there is no rain they don't produce many acorns. Red oaks will still produce acorn in a drought year.. I have observed this with our water oaks producing consistently and our post oaks feast or famine.
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Old 03-31-2018, 08:39 PM   #31
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Red oaks are biennials which means they flower on previous years growth and are not reliant upon current rainfall. White oaks will produce annually if there is rain they produce acorns if there is no rain they don't produce many acorns. Red oaks will still produce acorn in a drought year.. I have observed this with our water oaks producing consistently and our post oaks feast or famine.
Water oaks are a white oak species......

Even if the white oak species looses every other acorn crop they will still produce the same amount of acorns that the red oak does. And this rarely happens which means that the white oaks will out produce the red oaks.
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:31 AM   #32
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Quercus nigra is in the red oak family look at native nursery website and any other online field guide. We may be talking about different trees. I will give you the Quercus alba and quercus virginiana are heavy producers but most others in the white oak family don't produce well or consistently.
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Old 04-01-2018, 03:46 PM   #33
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Quercus nigra is in the red oak family look at native nursery website and any other online field guide. We may be talking about different trees. I will give you the Quercus alba and quercus virginiana are heavy producers but most others in the white oak family don't produce well or consistently.
Most of what I deal with are live oaks, Quercus virginiana, and water oaks, Quercus nigra (both white oak family) and unless the drought is severe they produce massive crops. In drought years they still produce but less.
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Old 04-01-2018, 09:19 PM   #34
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Just curious where you are getting your info that quercus nigra is a white oaks species. Every source I have found indicates it is in the red oak family.

https://www.fs.fed.us/foresthealth/t...fieldguide.pdf

https://www.nativnurseries.com/c-37-red-oaks.aspx

That also would not explain why I am able to graft quercus shumardii scions to quercus nigra root stock and have success at my ranch.
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Old 04-20-2018, 01:14 AM   #35
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sawtooth and shumard
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Old 04-21-2018, 12:06 AM   #36
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I just bought a dozen chili pequin. Not sure if deer like them. I would think they would. Plus great little pepper to eat. I would think any kind of shrubs deer would like. Not just trees.
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:22 PM   #37
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I just bought a dozen chili pequin. Not sure if deer like them. I would think they would. Plus great little pepper to eat. I would think any kind of shrubs deer would like. Not just trees.
I absolutely love chilli pequins. We have a ton of them here. I eat them with a sandwich all the time. Take a bite of sandwich, toss 3 or 4 chilli pequins in and chew, repeat, repeat, repeat.
They are excellent.
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:40 PM   #38
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Nothing better than a little heat in the mouth and Copenhagen.
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I absolutely love chilli pequins. We have a ton of them here. I eat them with a sandwich all the time. Take a bite of sandwich, toss 3 or 4 chilli pequins in and chew, repeat, repeat, repeat.
They are excellent.

Last edited by JANKEII; 04-23-2018 at 10:42 PM. Reason: Wrong word
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