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Old 08-19-2017, 11:02 PM   #1
Stoof
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Default The Pittman Robertson act.

If you know what it does and I am a big fan. Maybe I'm biased because I grew up in New Mexico and just got back from a visit. But Texas missed the boat. We have our so called public lands but.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong but it is hard to get lost in Texas. Big game hunting in Texas is tough. Bone mass equals $$.
As it does to any guide.

That is on the line. Public land. But from a Texas point of view are we biased?

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Old 08-19-2017, 11:25 PM   #2
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Probably should have put this in the campfire. But it's political.


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Old 08-19-2017, 11:44 PM   #3
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School trust lands?


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Old 08-20-2017, 03:17 AM   #4
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Texas is certainly deficient in the area of public land. I am not sure how the school trust land was supposed to work but I guess it was to aide school funding in some way?? Apparently, the state sold a lot/most of the land... Some of this is recently being fought over in some of the western states. Some of the Meateater podcast and Randy Newberg podcasts speak on this matter.
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Old 08-20-2017, 11:25 AM   #5
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Different dynamic but not a bad one. The west has more public land in 5 or 6 states than the entire eastern seaboard and the Gulf Coast states combined. When President Teddy Roosevelt developed the plan for public spaces 90% of our population was still in the east. Land barons were more prevelant in texas, Oklahoma and kansas during that migration due to the railroad system that got cattle to Kansas city and Chicago. It was all about feeding the rapidly expanding east. Be sure if James Town was located in the west back in the 1600's....... the majority of public lands would be located in the eastern states!
Based on demographics Texas and other states did exactly what was needed to fill that void.......or should I say market!

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Old 08-20-2017, 01:42 PM   #6
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I like hunting private land and not worrying about who else may or may not show up in the same area to hunt.
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Old 08-21-2017, 12:54 PM   #7
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I like hunting private land and not worrying about who else may or may not show up in the same area to hunt.

Ditto. I am also not a huge fan of the Gubmint owning giant swaths of the Country. I would like to hunt some of those areas but not at the cost of Federal rules/Laws that constrict behaviors to the point of being punitive.
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Old 08-21-2017, 01:35 PM   #8
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Ditto. I am also not a huge fan of the Gubmint owning giant swaths of the Country. I would like to hunt some of those areas but not at the cost of Federal rules/Laws that constrict behaviors to the point of being punitive.
1. Technically, the feds don't "own" the lands per say, the lands are held in the public trust and managed by various federal agencies. This is a small, but important, legal technicality.

2. What rules/laws on federal land do you see as punitive?
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Old 08-21-2017, 01:45 PM   #9
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1. Technically, the feds don't "own" the lands per say, the lands are held in the public trust and managed by various federal agencies. This is a small, but important, legal technicality.

2. What rules/laws on federal land do you see as punitive?


1. That is a distinction without a difference.


2. Driving up a boat ramp without a seat belt accrues a $240 fine. That's at least the way it was on Lake Amistad about 10 years ago. My FIL being fined $40 for having too large of a tent (4 person with 2 campers) somewhere in Arkansas.
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Old 08-21-2017, 01:52 PM   #10
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1. That is a distinction without a difference.


2. Driving up a boat ramp without a seat belt accrues a $240 fine. That's at least the way it was on Lake Amistad about 10 years ago. My FIL being fined $40 for having too large of a tent (4 person with 2 campers) somewhere in Arkansas.
So, because of personal experience amounting to $280 in fines a decade ago, you would support legislation that would undermine 100 years of hunter driven conservation in this country? Not to mention the absolutely devastating effect public land transfer/privatization would have on the $646 billion/year outdoor recreation industry?
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:28 PM   #11
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I like hunting private land and not worrying about who else may or may not show up in the same area to hunt.
Shane, where did you kill your ram? I know that it can be done on private land (especially in TX). But I would venture to guess that 90+% of bighorn sheep hunting is done on public lands.

I'm a states rights guy on most issues...but not public lands. They are almost always sold off when states get control of public lands. I believe that TR and others actually got the public lands model right. Wild lands (what we have left) should stay wild. I want the same opportunity to hunt, fish, camp, recreate public lands for my kids, grandkids, etc... and for every future American.
It is one of the things (in my mind) that makes America Great..and unique to other countries.
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:33 PM   #12
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I could not agree more LWC. Growing up in NM we would hunt and hike and never see another soul.
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:42 PM   #13
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I have never seen another soul on any of my extensive western hunts. Truly unique model that is the envy of other countries. Teddy had a superior vision and I thank him for it. But back to the question : If Teddy was 30 years earlier texas would have that also. But it worked out fine in my opinion.

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Old 08-21-2017, 05:10 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by B Littleton View Post
So, because of personal experience amounting to $280 in fines a decade ago, you would support legislation that would undermine 100 years of hunter driven conservation in this country? Not to mention the absolutely devastating effect public land transfer/privatization would have on the $646 billion/year outdoor recreation industry?

You got all that from what I wrote, huh?
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Old 08-21-2017, 05:33 PM   #15
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I like hunting private land and not worrying about who else may or may not show up in the same area to hunt.
X2 and like being able to manage my private land.
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Old 08-21-2017, 06:00 PM   #16
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X2 and like being able to manage my private land.
Nobody is trying to take your private lands. But there is a movement to take the public lands (that belong to every American) and make them private. I think our country is better off keeping public lands public...and available for anyone to use.

I think it is pretty cool to think that 200 years from now a person who flies their car to work or whatever technology is available....would still be able to go out and fish a trout stream or chase a bull elk through pretty much the same mountains that Jim Bridger used to call home.

Or it could all be condos, golf courses, and 7-11's, etc...as far as the eye can see. We have the opportunity to make a lasting legacy to keep on this earth for eternity. Once it is gone....IT IS GONE. You can't get it back. I personally think our country is better off keeping what we have as wild and untouched as possible.

I'm a free market, states rights, capitalist, kind of guy. But I don't think you can put a price on some things.....and public lands are one of those things for me.
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Old 08-21-2017, 06:12 PM   #17
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We have one of the most unique parks system in the world. I believe that it should stay public 100%. States cannot take care of these lands (financially) and would eventually be privatized leaving us with no public land.


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Old 08-21-2017, 06:35 PM   #18
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I love hunting in NM and Colorado......on the rare occasion i grt drawn.
At 6% chance it has become a really unfair event.
That said, i dont think any public land should be sold off inless it is of no good recreational use and then proceeds ( at least 50% ) should go to open up more space
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:04 PM   #19
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I would hate to see a state government sell what is now federal public land just to perpetuate the welfare state some states are running... Does anyone really believe that states like California or Illinois would keep public land public instead of selling it??

Listen to some of podcast from either Steven Rinnela or Randy Newberg. They both do a great job of depicting what would become of federal lands should they be turned over to the states.
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:12 PM   #20
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I love hunting in NM and Colorado......on the rare occasion i grt drawn.
At 6% chance it has become a really unfair event.
That said, i dont think any public land should be sold off inless it is of no good recreational use and then proceeds ( at least 50% ) should go to open up more space
You can hunt Colorado every year. There are plenty OTC license.
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:27 PM   #21
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You can hunt Colorado every year. There are plenty OTC license.
Plenty of otc elk.....plan on that trip next year. But really enjoy NM deer.
I have missed the last two years....first gap that long in last 28 years....that i remember. Problem is, of the three of us that go only 2 bow hunt and camp just is not as good with 1 missing thats why we have been putting in for NM deer.
Next year, im going if even im alone
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:32 PM   #22
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With Interior Secretary Zinke I have a lot of faith that this will not be an issue anytime soon. I should have some updates later this week from the SCI Board of Directors meeting in Arizona.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:19 AM   #23
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You got all that from what I wrote, huh?
Fair enough, it was certainly wrong of me to infer that from what you wrote alone. Actually it was your previous statement that "I am also not a huge fan of the Gubmint owning giant swaths of the Country" that I based my assumption that you were pro-transfer. My bad.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:28 AM   #24
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With Interior Secretary Zinke I have a lot of faith that this will not be an issue anytime soon. I should have some updates later this week from the SCI Board of Directors meeting in Arizona.
Maybe, his voting record is somewhat questionable in this arena though. He seems to be a little two-faced on the issue. However, he is certainly a better choice than some. I guess only time will tell.

I think the worry is that rather than push outright transfer at this point, the pro-transfer movement will aim to undercut the agencies managing these lands (through budget cuts and legislation) to the point that they are entirely ineffective, thus creating a situation where they can bring up the argument for transfer again.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:45 AM   #25
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I'm still trying to figure out the tie to the Pittman-Robertson Act and how Texas missed the boat on public land?
I like hunting private land. when I used to hunt Colo. and Wyoming there were several times I would scout all summer to find a good spot that held elk and muledeer and then on opening morning when the sun came up to reveal several orange spots in the same drainage however I am glad the western states have those lands
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:53 AM   #26
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Fair enough, it was certainly wrong of me to infer that from what you wrote alone. Actually it was your previous statement that "I am also not a huge fan of the Gubmint owning giant swaths of the Country" that I based my assumption that you were pro-transfer. My bad.
Heck no. I don't want it sold off and paved over. It's just a catch 22 in my view. I like that is will be untouched for future generations but when the Gubmint sticks their fingers in anything, they seem to find a way to mess it all up.
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:15 AM   #27
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Maybe, his voting record is somewhat questionable in this arena though. He seems to be a little two-faced on the issue. However, he is certainly a better choice than some. I guess only time will tell.

I think the worry is that rather than push outright transfer at this point, the pro-transfer movement will aim to undercut the agencies managing these lands (through budget cuts and legislation) to the point that they are entirely ineffective, thus creating a situation where they can bring up the argument for transfer again.
I can't think of anyone better to hold that office (Well , that was under realistic consideration!) He has seen it all in local, state and federal land issues. Every major conservation group endorsed him publiclly as did the NRA. He does not just hunt and fish. .......he exudes that lifestyle. The "cherry on top" he just happens to be a Navy Seal.
Yes I do agree, if we continue wars in all these localities and continue to fund the over burdensome health & welfare system the department of Interior will surely be slashed. That could "potentially" gain traction with the PRO transfer montra folks. Anything and everything is possible.....always the case in politics. Be vigilant, be prepared , be an advocate! But on the forseeable horizon this issue does not rank in the Top 25 of legislative concerns as of now.

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Old 08-22-2017, 10:25 AM   #28
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I'm still trying to figure out the tie to the Pittman-Robertson Act and how Texas missed the boat on public land?
I like hunting private land. when I used to hunt Colo. and Wyoming there were several times I would scout all summer to find a good spot that held elk and muledeer and then on opening morning when the sun came up to reveal several orange spots in the same drainage however I am glad the western states have those lands
I have wrongly tied school trust lands to the P-R Act. Texas is certainly a different beast when it comes to statehood and private vs. public lands.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:50 AM   #29
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I can't think of anyone better to hold that office (Well , that was under realistic consideration!) He has seen it all in local, state and federal land issues. Every major conservation group endorsed him publiclly as did the NRA. He does not just hunt and fish. .......he exudes that lifestyle. The "cherry on top" he just happens to be a Navy Seal.
Yes I do agree, if we continue wars in all these localities and continue to fund the over burdensome health & welfare system the department of Interior will surely be slashed. That could "potentially" gain traction with the PRO transfer montra folks. Anything and everything is possible.....always the case in politics. Be vigilant, be prepared , be an advocate! But on the forseeable horizon this issue does not rank in the Top 25 of legislative concerns as of now.

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I agree that he is absolutely the best option we had.
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:57 PM   #30
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Every year, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service reviews hunting and fishing programs on National Wildlife Refuges to determine whether it should add new opportunities and modify existing opportunities. This year, the Service has proposed to open or expand hunting on nine Refuges.


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Old 08-25-2017, 09:55 AM   #31
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So, because of personal experience amounting to $280 in fines a decade ago, you would support legislation that would undermine 100 years of hunter driven conservation in this country? Not to mention the absolutely devastating effect public land transfer/privatization would have on the $646 billion/year outdoor recreation industry?


Did he say that? Was that the discussion?
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:09 AM   #32
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Every year, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service reviews hunting and fishing programs on National Wildlife Refuges to determine whether it should add new opportunities and modify existing opportunities. This year, the Service has proposed to open or expand hunting on nine Refuges.


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And those same areas would never be opened if a democrat had won the last potus election. That's just a fact of life now.
In my area, our federal refuge was a fiefdom of the manager. And the 4 years we had an antihunter running it, it was basically off limits to hunters. It rained? The roads closed. It's hot? Close it because someone might drop a cigarette butt and cause a fire. During hunting season, all 2 days of it, the gates opened at 7am, after daylight, closed at 5pm. If you got caught behind them, you got a trespassing ticket the next morning. Hunting ducks? Let him check your vehicle and find a rifle cartridge. Your poaching deer. It was one harassment after another, and it took years to get him transferred to someplace else. So there are instances when federal oversite is an infringement, and the attitude of the Feds filters down from the top. Now, we are seeing reversals of obama policy shutting down millions of acres of federal lands for hunting. I hope it continues for the next 4 years.
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