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Old 11-10-2017, 10:05 AM   #1
1shot
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Default 260 AI vs 6.5 Creedmoore

Not trying to stir the pot, but I'm sure it's going to happen. I have a curiosity about the differences in the two. How do they compare in velocity? Barrel life? Any advantage in one over the other? Also could you shoot regular 260 rem in the AI if you were in a pinch?
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Old 11-10-2017, 10:55 AM   #2
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You get about 200 fps.
You lose shoulder angle, barrel life, recoil, and any chance of finding factory ammo.

A better option if what you are looking for is a "creedmoor + 200 fps" would be a 6.5x284. You give up short action, but your barrels will be longer lasting, they will feed better, and you'll find a lot more literature, especially among the match guys.

Taking a step back, if your problem is "my creedmoor doesn't shoot fast enough" consider the 264 win mag or upcoming 6.5 PRS.
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Old 11-10-2017, 11:39 AM   #3
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In for Roberts response as I know he has experience with both at long range matches.
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Old 11-10-2017, 12:41 PM   #4
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What is your intended purpose? For the average to even above average hunter there's very little performance difference in the two. Barrel wear will be negligible in either.

I have a 22-250AI that shoots extremely well in fire forming. I've heard others say the same.

You have a down side of fire forming brass in the AI. They're both made by Lapua so that's no an issue. As of now, the CM is the hot ticket so theirs lots of ammo. If the luster wears off or something else becomes the flavor of the month you could have ammo supply issues like that of the 260. But, if you're considering an AI, it's assumed that you're going to reload so no issue their as well.

I've always said I'd build an AI but I just picked up a 5.6x284 so who knows.

In for Roberts response as well. I know he fought the CM craze for some time.
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Old 11-10-2017, 12:53 PM   #5
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I am am avid 260 fan (rem or AI) and am fighting the CM craze tooth and nail. Barrel life in negligible as stated above. If you reload I say go with the 260 AI!

There are other options if you just want speed but you can miss at 3000 fps just as easily as you can at 2800. Just my 0.02 and because this pic says it all.
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Old 11-10-2017, 07:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balcones_Walker View Post
You get about 200 fps.
You lose shoulder angle, barrel life, recoil, and any chance of finding factory ammo.

A better option if what you are looking for is a "creedmoor + 200 fps" would be a 6.5x284. You give up short action, but your barrels will be longer lasting, they will feed better, and you'll find a lot more literature, especially among the match guys.

Taking a step back, if your problem is "my creedmoor doesn't shoot fast enough" consider the 264 win mag or upcoming 6.5 PRS.
I have been known to live under a rock but this is the first time I've heard of a 6.5-284 having a longer barrel life than a 260 AI.... Did I read that right?
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Old 11-10-2017, 07:43 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by aggieman08 View Post
I have been known to live under a rock but this is the first time I've heard of a 6.5-284 having a longer barrel life than a 260 AI.... Did I read that right?


6.5-284 will shoot out a barrel much quicker than a 260AI.

Shoulder angle also get much steeper with the AI not less.

You will probably gain 150ish fps over the Creedmoor and es you can shoot regular 260 in a pinch. My 22-250 AI shoots regular 22-250 to the same POI out to around 250 yards, then the extra speed takes over.


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Old 11-10-2017, 09:08 PM   #8
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Default 260 AI vs 6.5 Creedmoore

If you're looking for speed in a short action just build a 6.5 SAUM or 6.5 PRC. I'm going to do a SAUM because I'd rather get factory ammo from Copper Creek than Hornady and I will mainly reload anyway. It's a little faster than the PRC. Also, there's been some issues related to the use of different reamer specs for the PRC. The 6.5SAUM has the wrinkles ironed out.

Google "6.5prc seating depth considerations" and it's on Snipers Hide. I can't make the link work for some reason


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Old 11-10-2017, 09:43 PM   #9
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I've been shooting my 260 AI for about the last 3 yrs and can give a little insight.

1) You can shoot regular 260 ammo if needed, while fire forming most groups are around .75". You MUST shoot regular 260 ammo in your rifle to obtain brass.

2) With my 24" barrel I'm getting between 2900-2950 with 140-143gr bullets vs 2800-2850 (from what I've seen)on the 6.5 CM.

3) When I chose the 260 AI, the 6.5 CM didn't have lapua brass but now they've both got brass support. Downside to fire forming for the 260 AI is time. If you don't have time to head to the range JUST to form brass to your chamber you should avoid the round. On the plus side, you don't have to worry about trimming brass like you would with the 6.5 CM or regular 260. From my reading, AI chambers are supposed to have longer barrel life, time will only tell if that's true. I'd expect 1200-1500 rnds from either of the rounds. Not sure how much you shoot, but thats quite a few rounds.

4) One thing I've been thinking of doing is switching over to an extended box mag, several of my loads are longer than the current magazine allows.

5) Many will say the minimal gain isn't worth it, but I disagree. I like that it's different than the current fad and it's forced me to fine tune my reloading ability.

6) I've been looking really hard at the 6.5 SAUM, it's shooting 140gr bullets around 3050-3080 fps. The difference in speed between the SAUM and 260 AI is about the same as the difference between the 6.5 CM and 260 AI, so for those that say the difference is minimal may as well throw out the 6.5 PRC and 6.5 SAUM as well.
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Old 11-10-2017, 11:36 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Balcones_Walker View Post
You get about 200 fps.
You lose shoulder angle, barrel life, recoil, and any chance of finding factory ammo.

A better option if what you are looking for is a "creedmoor + 200 fps" would be a 6.5x284. You give up short action, but your barrels will be longer lasting, they will feed better, and you'll find a lot more literature, especially among the match guys.

Taking a step back, if your problem is "my creedmoor doesn't shoot fast enough" consider the 264 win mag or upcoming 6.5 PRS.
The 6.5-284 is a short action. Most run it on a long action to run longer bullets without killing capacity.

6.5-284 does not have a good barrel life. 900-1200 rounds max unless you load it real light. It'll still shoot decent after that but not the best it can. Heavy fire cracking in the throat. A bore rider really helps offset that in this round and you'll gain at least 200 more rounds of good barrel life and a good velocity gain.

6.5 creedmoor is an entry long range round. Good for folks who don't reload and want to play with longer range stuff. It's slow.

260 AI is what the CM wants to be. Faster. Good barrel life. But the brass prep sucks with fire forming. You can use hydraulic dies to save barrel life or just have a cheap barrel done up with the same specs and use it strictly for fire forming.
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Old 11-10-2017, 11:39 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by stxhunter View Post
I've been shooting my 260 AI for about the last 3 yrs and can give a little insight.

1) You can shoot regular 260 ammo if needed, while fire forming most groups are around .75". You MUST shoot regular 260 ammo in your rifle to obtain brass.

2) With my 24" barrel I'm getting between 2900-2950 with 140-143gr bullets vs 2800-2850 (from what I've seen)on the 6.5 CM.

3) When I chose the 260 AI, the 6.5 CM didn't have lapua brass but now they've both got brass support. Downside to fire forming for the 260 AI is time. If you don't have time to head to the range JUST to form brass to your chamber you should avoid the round. On the plus side, you don't have to worry about trimming brass like you would with the 6.5 CM or regular 260. From my reading, AI chambers are supposed to have longer barrel life, time will only tell if that's true. I'd expect 1200-1500 rnds from either of the rounds. Not sure how much you shoot, but thats quite a few rounds.

4) One thing I've been thinking of doing is switching over to an extended box mag, several of my loads are longer than the current magazine allows.

5) Many will say the minimal gain isn't worth it, but I disagree. I like that it's different than the current fad and it's forced me to fine tune my reloading ability.

6) I've been looking really hard at the 6.5 SAUM, it's shooting 140gr bullets around 3050-3080 fps. The difference in speed between the SAUM and 260 AI is about the same as the difference between the 6.5 CM and 260 AI, so for those that say the difference is minimal may as well throw out the 6.5 PRC and 6.5 SAUM as well.
You should easily get over 3100fps with the saum. Just FYI. It's the one I would choose. I didn't do it on my last one due to component availability. But that's not an issue now. I've got several good friends that run them with great success from hunting to matches. It's a hammer of a round.
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Old 11-10-2017, 11:44 PM   #12
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You should easily get over 3100fps with the saum. Just FYI. It's the one I would choose. I didn't do it on my last one due to component availability. But that's not an issue now. I've got several good friends that run them with great success from hunting to matches. It's a hammer of a round.
I would think so as well, considering it's got over 10grs more capacity than my 260 AI. George Gardner lists max velocity at 3080 and just about everyone I see posting runs in to pressure signs right at 3080 or a little before. I guess i won't really know until I try. I have a feeling RL26 may pick up a little speed over H1000 everyone seems to be using.
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Old 11-10-2017, 11:45 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by stxhunter View Post
I would think so as well, considering it's got over 10grs more capacity than my 260 AI. George Gardner lists max velocity at 3080 and just about everyone I see posting runs in to pressure signs right at 3080 or a little before. I guess i won't really know until I try. I have a feeling RL26 may pick up a little speed over H1000 everyone seems to be using.
I'll get you load data when you need it from guys who have ran it a ton.
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Old 11-11-2017, 12:07 AM   #14
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I'll get you load data when you need it from guys who have ran it a ton.
Thanks. I've been running quick load on a few powders and they all max out pressure just below 3100 fps. Any idea if they're running the Hornady brass or necking down 7 Saum?
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Old 11-11-2017, 12:08 AM   #15
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Thanks. I've been running quick load on a few powders and they all max out pressure just below 3100 fps. Any idea if they're running the Hornady brass or necking down 7 Saum?
Hornady once George got his crap together and quit lying about the quality lol
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Old 11-11-2017, 12:25 AM   #16
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Hornady once George got his crap together and quit lying about the quality lol
LOL! Brass price has gone down as well.
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Old 11-11-2017, 12:25 AM   #17
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LOL! Brass price has gone down as well.
More of it. You couldn't find saum brass to convert for nothing when I was considering it lol. This was 2-3 years ago
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:09 AM   #18
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The 6.5-284 Norma spec is for a long action with a longer throat so you can set the bullets out longer and not reduce as much case capacity. The 284 parent cartridge is a cool round but is built for short actions where a longer bullet does eat up case capacity.

I have a Cooper 52 in the 6.5-284 and love shooting the rifle. It is accurate and when or if I burn out the barrel, they make barrels while we sleep.


If I really want to reach out with a 6.5 the 264 Win mag will work and is in the safe rarely ever shot. I do not shoot much past 500 these days and have fun with the 6.5 Grendel for that. For a fun handy light weight open sighted boltaction it is hard to beat a MS 1903 6.5X54 it is old school, handy and those 160gr round nose bullets thump critters hard at the ranges my eyes allow me to shoot. Action is the smoothest bolt action I have ever cycled. Reminds me of a bolt action version of a good lever action 30-30
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:11 AM   #19
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Choosing either a 6.5 Creedmoor or 260AI I would go the AI if for no other reason than the very limited brass stretch of the AI case, did I mention I hate case trimming
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Old 11-11-2017, 07:02 AM   #20
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LOL! Brass price has gone down as well.
The newest Hornady brass is better. The first two batches were not good. Third was better and now quantity of brass available with last run dropped price down to $1.

There is going to be a new release of this brass soon that will be good. Not Lapua but similar quality and made in the US. Headstamp is supposed to read 6.5 SAUM
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Old 11-11-2017, 07:04 AM   #21
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Sorry OP, didn’t mean to add to the tangent off of your original question.
260AI will beat the Creed at anything other than availability and ease of loading. You will need an extended mag box and notched bottom of action if you want to shoot heavies.
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Old 11-11-2017, 01:30 PM   #22
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What powder are you using to get that velocity?


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Old 11-11-2017, 06:49 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by stxhunter View Post
I've been shooting my 260 AI for about the last 3 yrs and can give a little insight.

1) You can shoot regular 260 ammo if needed, while fire forming most groups are around .75". You MUST shoot regular 260 ammo in your rifle to obtain brass.

2) With my 24" barrel I'm getting between 2900-2950 with 140-143gr bullets vs 2800-2850 (from what I've seen)on the 6.5 CM.

3) When I chose the 260 AI, the 6.5 CM didn't have lapua brass but now they've both got brass support. Downside to fire forming for the 260 AI is time. If you don't have time to head to the range JUST to form brass to your chamber you should avoid the round. On the plus side, you don't have to worry about trimming brass like you would with the 6.5 CM or regular 260. From my reading, AI chambers are supposed to have longer barrel life, time will only tell if that's true. I'd expect 1200-1500 rnds from either of the rounds. Not sure how much you shoot, but thats quite a few rounds.

4) One thing I've been thinking of doing is switching over to an extended box mag, several of my loads are longer than the current magazine allows.

5) Many will say the minimal gain isn't worth it, but I disagree. I like that it's different than the current fad and it's forced me to fine tune my reloading ability.

6) I've been looking really hard at the 6.5 SAUM, it's shooting 140gr bullets around 3050-3080 fps. The difference in speed between the SAUM and 260 AI is about the same as the difference between the 6.5 CM and 260 AI, so for those that say the difference is minimal may as well throw out the 6.5 PRC and 6.5 SAUM as well.


What powder and charge are you using to get those velocities?


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Old 11-12-2017, 12:36 AM   #24
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What powder and charge are you using to get those velocities?


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Im getting those velocities with ~48gr of RL26. Be sure and work your way up though. I tried H4831, H4350, and IMR 4451, speeds all hovered around 4800 +/- before running in to pressure. Quick load suggested RL26 would provide the best velocity, figured Id give it a try and it was spot on.


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Old 11-12-2017, 04:41 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by stxhunter View Post
Im getting those velocities with ~48gr of RL26. Be sure and work your way up though. I tried H4831, H4350, and IMR 4451, speeds all hovered around 4800 +/- before running in to pressure. Quick load suggested RL26 would provide the best velocity, figured Id give it a try and it was spot on.


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Ive got a Remington action and Krieger barrel put together by Precision Barrel work in 260. AI and Im loving it for killing hogs. Doesnt seem to matter whether Im fire forming Lapua brass or what Im shooting sub moa groups and dropping the hogs in their tracks. Bullet selection has run everywhere from Barnes LRX to Hornady ELDX,127 gr- 143 gr and they all group very good.


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Old 11-12-2017, 04:51 AM   #26
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shot this one through both shoulders and shield, exit wound was $.50 sized with Barnes 127 gr LRX.


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Old 11-12-2017, 04:56 AM   #27
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shot this one through both shoulders and shield, exit wound was $.50 sized with Barnes 127 gr LRX.


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this one was #285 lbs and close enough to a Road we could get him on the scales. He was shot with 143 gr ELDX. You can tell he had massive exit wound from the amount of blood in the puddle that formed under him.



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Old 11-12-2017, 02:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stxhunter View Post
Im getting those velocities with ~48gr of RL26. Be sure and work your way up though. I tried H4831, H4350, and IMR 4451, speeds all hovered around 4800 +/- before running in to pressure. Quick load suggested RL26 would provide the best velocity, figured Id give it a try and it was spot on.


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The more I use RL26 the more I like it. Started off using it in the 22-243 with impressive velocity and accuracy so trying it in a few more or will when get around to it.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:02 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
6.5-284 will shoot out a barrel much quicker than a 260AI.
Thanks - good to know. It's hard to find quantified information on the rare rounds beyond "burns barrels quickly" vs. "really really burns barrels quickly"
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