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Old 06-01-2018, 07:58 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by AntlerCollector View Post
They are close, but MJ was a better all around player in his prime. Jordan was a better defender, and rebounder without a doubt. They are both great scorers.
Better rebounder? I will give you defender, but come on now?
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:05 AM   #52
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Anyone remember when David Robinson won the MVP then had to play a game against Hakeem Olajuwon?
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:08 AM   #53
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Better rebounder? I will give you defender, but come on now?
You are right. I withdraw the rebounder. I'm not sure where that came from. I'm awake now

Better defender without a doubt. If those two in their prime could play 1 on 1, I think Jordan would win. James wouldn't be able to stop Jordan from scoring.
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:15 AM   #54
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1. Wilt Chamberlain
2. Lebron James
3. Michael Jordan
4. Elgin Baylor
5. Jerry West

And honorable mention: Larry Bird, Oscar Robertson, Dr. J, Magic Johnson, Kobe and Pistol Pete.



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Old 06-01-2018, 08:19 AM   #55
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Lebron is a modern upgrade of athletic beast. He's Jordan 2.0. He's a Mack truck field general with touch and physicality that is simply unmatched.

If you look at Jordan's amazing career list of championships and awards, he's clearly the man of his era. Lebron is the kind of player that had he been there, Jordan's career would look different.
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:24 AM   #56
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Anyone remember when David Robinson won the MVP then had to play a game against Hakeem Olajuwon?
I bet David Robinson never forgets about it lol. Probably still having nightmares about the Dream Shake
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:29 AM   #57
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No way in hell a flopper like James would be at the top of the list.
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:29 AM   #58
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Lebron is a modern upgrade of athletic beast. He's Jordan 2.0. He's a Mack truck field general with touch and physicality that is simply unmatched.

If you look at Jordan's amazing career list of championships and awards, he's clearly the man of his era. Lebron is the kind of player that had he been there, Jordan's career would look different.
Yes!
The most dominant player the game has seen since Wilt Chamberlain.


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Old 06-01-2018, 08:33 AM   #59
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Just a couple ways james is trailing MJ...lol I know you guys like stats.

https://www.google.com.mx/amp/s/hoop...er-debate/amp/
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:42 AM   #60
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Just a couple ways james is trailing MJ...lol I know you guys like stats.

https://www.google.com.mx/amp/s/hoop...er-debate/amp/
#2 is FT percentage

#3 is dunk contest wins ...
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:52 AM   #61
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Did James ever make a hit movie with Bugs Bunny?
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:58 AM   #62
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tenacity is what sets MJ ahead of Lebron in my opinion. I know you can't measure it or keep stats on it but it's pretty obvious. Plus you have to admire a player that sticks to a team and makes them champions.
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Old 06-01-2018, 09:04 AM   #63
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https://www.basketball-reference.com...jamesle01.html
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Old 06-01-2018, 09:05 AM   #64
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https://www.basketball-reference.com...jordami01.html
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Old 06-01-2018, 09:44 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Pedernal View Post
tenacity is what sets MJ ahead of Lebron in my opinion. I know you can't measure it or keep stats on it but it's pretty obvious. Plus you have to admire a player that sticks to a team and makes them champions.
He quit the team and went to play baseball. He then quit them again and went to play for the Wizards.
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Old 06-01-2018, 09:49 AM   #66
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a few more untouchable records

749 Complete Games - Cy Young
- will never be broken based on how the game is played today

44.2 pts per game - Pete Maravich career NCAA scoring avg.
- next closest player averaged 35 pts

21 seconds - fastest NHL hat trick by Bill Mosienko
- simply crazy

11 consecutive PGA tour wins - Byron Nelson
- most Tiger had was 8
And Wilt's 100 point game and 50.4 ppg season average.


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Old 06-01-2018, 10:02 AM   #67
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He quit the team and went to play baseball. He then quit them again and went to play for the Wizards.
The baseball thing was bizarre for sure but he wasn't chasing rings with another team... Comeback with the Wizards was a return after retirement and while he was the GM or President of Ops for the Wizards. He did not go to a stacked team to get/chase a ring.
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:05 AM   #68
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#2 is FT percentage

#3 is dunk contest wins ...
And I guess most flops is important...
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:13 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by jer_james View Post
He quit the team and went to play baseball. He then quit them again and went to play for the Wizards.

LeBron quit his finals Cleveland team and went to go play for a super team....just like KD is getting chastised and ridculed for now.


Wizard talk is ridiculous here.


If LeBron is the best player because he gets his teams to the Finals and loses most of them in a weak division then Jim Kelly is a top 3 QB....

Last edited by Smart; 06-01-2018 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:26 AM   #70
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If LeBron is the best player because he gets his teams to the Finals and loses most of them in a weak division then Jim Kelly is a top 3 QB....
I'm in the Lebron camp (having grown up watching Jordon) but that right there is pretty **** funny! ... and kind of a good point... but only IF you could compare basketball to other sports like football or baseball.

It is kind of hard to compare stats from one generation to the next because of how the divisions line up, and how each division plays the game, or how the game as a whole is played. Like another poster mentioned, # of complete games pitched isn't really a big thing any more because that is no longer how the game is played with folks worrying about pitch count and rotations, and speed, blah, blah, blah.

Definitely a fun discussion... but I find the GOAT arguments to be somewhat moot since pretty much in a lot of cases, the game changes over time and it would be difficult to really do a straight up comparison between 2 completely different generations.
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:29 AM   #71
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LeBron quit his finals Cleveland team and went to go play for a super team....just like KD is getting chastised and ridculed for now.


Wizard talk is ridiculous here.


If LeBron is the best player because he gets his teams to the Finals and loses most of them in a weak division then Jim Kelly is a top 3 QB....
KD joined a team that beat him, and had won 73 games prior to him getting there. They won without him.

The Heat were nowhere near the Warriors.

Jim Kelly went to 4 Super Bowls and won zero. Lebron has been to 2x as many Finals and won 3 titles.

Jordan played in an weak East as well. Second best player on the Pacers teams were Davis Bros. or Rick Smits. That's not a good team. Second best player on the Knicks was John Starks. Again, not a good team.

Jordan never played anything like the Warriors ever.
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:29 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Smart View Post
LeBron quit his finals Cleveland team and went to go play for a super team....just like KD is getting chastised and ridculed for now.


Wizard talk is ridiculous here.


If LeBron is the best player because he gets his teams to the Finals and loses most of them in a weak division then Jim Kelly is a top 3 QB....
Jim Kelly was a championship QB!


For the Houston Gamblers
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:42 AM   #73
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Jordan, James, Magic, Bird, Kobe

And if it weren’t for Magic and Bird there wouldn’t be an NBA for the others to play in

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Old 06-01-2018, 10:45 AM   #74
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Lebron is more physically capable than Jordan, but he's nowhere near as tenacious or driven and that puts Jordan over the top, by a considerable margin in my opinion.

It's those 2 and then a whole bunch of others you can argue.
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:48 AM   #75
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He would be lucky to make the top 25


That's just flat wrong.


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Old 06-01-2018, 10:50 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by jer_james View Post
KD joined a team that beat him, and had won 73 games prior to him getting there. They won without him.

The Heat were nowhere near the Warriors.

Jim Kelly went to 4 Super Bowls and won zero. Lebron has been to 2x as many Finals and won 3 titles.

Jordan played in an weak East as well. Second best player on the Pacers teams were Davis Bros. or Rick Smits. That's not a good team. Second best player on the Knicks was John Starks. Again, not a good team.

Jordan never played anything like the Warriors ever.

But still he quit his team and took his talents to South Beach to start this super team craze.



3 out of 8....He'd be a great baseball player..




And Jordan may have played in the East but he didn't lose when got to the finals either against a stronger West.


Using your logic...the Bulls never played anything like the Heat in the finals....Is Dirk better than Jordan?

Last edited by Smart; 06-01-2018 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:56 AM   #77
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That's just flat wrong.


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So, without taking into account Spurs/Rockets thoughts on Dirk as that's obviously rivalry bias, do a google search on top NBA players of all time lists. As written by experts that have covered basketball their entire careers.

I don't think I've ever seen Dirk show up in a top-20. Tim Duncan is in everyone of them. Olajuwon is in every one of them.

Don't think Dirk is really on that level, though obviously a great player.
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:07 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by jer_james View Post
KD joined a team that beat him, and had won 73 games prior to him getting there. They won without him.

The Heat were nowhere near the Warriors.

Jim Kelly went to 4 Super Bowls and won zero. Lebron has been to 2x as many Finals and won 3 titles.

Jordan played in an weak East as well. Second best player on the Pacers teams were Davis Bros. or Rick Smits. That's not a good team. Second best player on the Knicks was John Starks. Again, not a good team.

Jordan never played anything like the Warriors ever.
I hope the lebron jock tastes good. You probably are in the camp of those not alive when Jordan played by the looks of your posts.

I think skip Bayless posted recently that Jordan had beat 20 teams with 50 wins or greater in the playoffs and lebron had beaten 10...
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:08 AM   #79
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As much as I can't stand him, and as much as I love my good ol days....I think it's time to put Lebron above MJ. If it's not, we're getting **** close.


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I agree
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:15 AM   #80
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So, without taking into account Spurs/Rockets thoughts on Dirk as that's obviously rivalry bias, do a google search on top NBA players of all time lists. As written by experts that have covered basketball their entire careers.

I don't think I've ever seen Dirk show up in a top-20. Tim Duncan is in everyone of them. Olajuwon is in every one of them.

Don't think Dirk is really on that level, though obviously a great player.
my point exactly. Not saying hes not a great player but hes nowhere near the top
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:34 AM   #81
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1st list that popped up.


They have Garnet and Pippen ahead of him to which is stupid.

Sixth leading scorer of all time, and I think he will make fifth next year. No one plays defense in that league anymore.

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Old 06-01-2018, 11:35 AM   #82
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I hope the lebron jock tastes good. You probably are in the camp of those not alive when Jordan played by the looks of your posts.

I think skip Bayless posted recently that Jordan had beat 20 teams with 50 wins or greater in the playoffs and lebron had beaten 10...
My Daughter's name is Jordan ... Care to guess why?

Beating up on bad teams within your division doesn't make you a good team. I explained the players on those teams.

Reggie Miller and bunch of guys.
Patrick Ewing with a bunch of guys.
Those teams were not good, and had seasons over 50 wins.
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:41 AM   #83
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But still he quit his team and took his talents to South Beach to start this super team craze.

3 out of 8....He'd be a great baseball player..

And Jordan may have played in the East but he didn't lose when got to the finals either against a stronger West.

Using your logic...the Bulls never played anything like the Heat in the finals....Is Dirk better than Jordan?
MJ quit his team and played baseball

Jordan played in the league 15 years and only made the Finals 6x. 6/15 is a pretty good baseball player too though. He did play great in all those Finals though.

LBJ has played the Warriors 4x in the Finals. That logic doesn't add up to anything regarding Dirk. Jordan never played a team as good as the Spurs in the Finals, let alone the record breaking Warriors. LBJ has been the underdog in every Finals loss except the Dallas series. Jordan was never the underdog.
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:47 AM   #84
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Obviously if you are starting a team and could get either MJ or Labron in their prime you would not go wrong with either pick.... As I mentioned earlier, tenacity makes a big difference and I see no comparison in that department... MJ would be as dominant if not more now and I don’t know I can say the same for Lebron playing in the times MJ played...
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:48 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by jer_james View Post
MJ quit his team and played baseball



Jordan played in the league 15 years and only made the Finals 6x. 6/15 is a pretty good baseball player too though. He did play great in all those Finals though.



LBJ has played the Warriors 4x in the Finals. That logic doesn't add up to anything regarding Dirk. Jordan never played a team as good as the Spurs in the Finals, let alone the record breaking Warriors. LBJ has been the underdog in every Finals loss except the Dallas series. Jordan was never the underdog.


You wanna know why Mike was never the underdog?


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Old 06-01-2018, 11:52 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Dale Moser View Post
1st list that popped up.


They have Garnet and Pippen ahead of him to which is stupid.

Sixth leading scorer of all time, and I think he will make fifth next year. No one plays defense in that league anymore.

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Yeah, the 2nd one has him at #17 as well. I guess I've historically never gone much beyond top-10 when I've read these things.
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:55 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by jer_james View Post
My Daughter's name is Jordan ... Care to guess why?

Beating up on bad teams within your division doesn't make you a good team. I explained the players on those teams.

Reggie Miller and bunch of guys.
Patrick Ewing with a bunch of guys.
Those teams were not good, and had seasons over 50 wins.
So now you are saying 50 wins isnít good? I guess only beating 10 teams with 50 wins in the playoffs is really bad then?
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:56 AM   #88
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Obviously if you are starting a team and could get either MJ or Labron in their prime you would not go wrong with either pick.... As I mentioned earlier, tenacity makes a big difference and I see no comparison in that department... MJ would be as dominant if not more now and I donít know I can say the same for Lebron playing in the times MJ played...
If this discussion included points for style and gracefulness, there would be no comparison. Jordonís graceful talent was simply amazing to watch. LeBron doesnít have that.
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:57 AM   #89
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Jordan was never the underdog.
Thereís a reason for that.
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:15 PM   #90
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If this discussion included points for style and gracefulness, there would be no comparison. Jordonís graceful talent was simply amazing to watch. LeBron doesnít have that.
I agree completely as to his gracefulness was amazing. I also think that Lebron's strength is unmatched. Which is why I bring up the tenacity argument. For example, Curry ended up matched with Lebron many times last night and Lebron failed to back him down a bunch of those times. It's a no brainier that Lebron should have pounded him in the paint every time. That would help ware Curry down.
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:18 PM   #91
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You wanna know why Mike was never the underdog?
Quote:
Originally Posted by txwhitetail View Post
Thereís a reason for that.
He had Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman? And All Star Horace Grant?
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:39 PM   #92
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He had Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman? And All Star Horace Grant?
Donít leave out Bill Cartwright.
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:43 PM   #93
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He had Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman? And All Star Horace Grant?


Scottie Pippen one of the most overrated players of all time? That Pippen? Jordan made him, and everyone else he played with better than they really were. Grant, Cartwright, give me a break. No one would know their names if they didn't play along side of Jordan. Rodman was the exception. He was nuttier than a squirrel t u r d, but he could play his role.

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Old 06-01-2018, 12:45 PM   #94
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I'll do mine but as a top 5 "team".

PG - Magic
SG - Jordan
G - Lebron
PF - DIRK!!!!
C - Shaq
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:46 PM   #95
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Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, but 5 finals lost so far. MJ is #1
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:49 PM   #96
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I'll do mine but as a top 5 "team".

PG - Magic
SG - Jordan
G - Lebron
PF - DIRK!!!!
C - Shaq

You spelled Duncan wrong on PF

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Old 06-01-2018, 01:03 PM   #97
batmaninja
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If you’re trying to take a charge in the final minute of the freaking NBA Finals, you deserve to have JR Smith drop a heaping steamy pile of poo poo on your dreams. And then his shorts suit, that alone should keep him out of the top 5.
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:13 PM   #98
Snowflake Killa
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LeBron would kill MJ and I've watched both play now I know that's just my opinion but that's what really counts my opinion
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:22 PM   #99
Smart
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MJ would be picking up LeBronís jock for him while LeBron was whining to the refs about getting called for a flopping penalty.... all after Jordan dunked on him..
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:42 PM   #100
JeffK
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where's Curry?
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