Arrow penatration problems

[enewman]

I disagree.
Both are measurements of force to push the head thru mass.
The head will weigh (in most cases) between 85 and 150 grains, with shafts weighing more, so we have more mass pushing the head through the material, regardless of what that material is.
If I will agree to anything, more total mass is more penetrating potential,( if speed is irrelevant), but I'm not really sure this is true.

Yes both are measurements. But momentum has an direction. K.E. Does not. So in an arrow that relies on moving Foward to get through the object it is shot at need momentum. No K.E.

Now if all we wanted was the arrow to explode in all directions on impact then we need K.E.

[enewman]

If you were to choose to shoot below 250 FPS, couldn't you build an arrow that produced higher momentum numbers?

Yes as long as it's the same bow.

If I shoot a 353 gn arrow from my bow I get close to 302 fps. That is .473 momentum. My 483 gn arrow shoots 263 fps. That is .566 momentum. My 560 gn is around 243 fps and my momentum is .604

[rocky]

Yes as long as it's the same bow.

Again, it's a compromise.
In the case of most modern compound bows, the difference in speed, K.E. and momentum is negligible, assuming arrow weights +/- 400 grains.

[enewman]

Again, it's a compromise.
In the case of most modern compound bows, the difference in speed, K.E. and momentum is negligible, assuming arrow weights +/- 400 grains.

Yes I would think so with your arrow being at that 400 mark.

But for me and my short draw I have to be willing to loose something to,get to the penetration I want. And that is speed. Just need to build a bow with a pully system so I can shoot a 30 in draw bow

[bowhuntntxn]

Here is one quick question for all the high FOC, high momentum folks. Is a complete pass through on an animal more effective in killing an animal than a non pass through, assuming of course that the animal is shot in the area of the lungs/heart as opposed to the hind quarter area?

IMO all of this brain melting calculating of momentum versus KE versus what ever is mostly pointless when tens of thousands of animals die every year to the "average" set up. Building an arrow that has the correct length and spine seems more efficient and speed, KE and momentum are by products that neither enhance of diminish performance.

Again that is my opinion, and folks are going to do what they do.

[enewman]

Here is one quick question for all the high FOC, high momentum folks. Is a complete pass through on an animal more effective in killing an animal than a non pass through, assuming of course that the animal is shot in the area of the lungs/heart as opposed to the hind quarter area?

IMO all of this brain melting calculating of momentum versus KE versus what ever is mostly pointless when tens of thousands of animals die every year to the "average" set up. Building an arrow that has the correct length and spine seems more efficient and speed, KE and momentum are by products that neither enhance of diminish performance.

Again that is my opinion, and folks are going to do what they do.

You do not need a complete passsthru to kill. An complete pass is so you have two holes leaking blood not one. And with a complete pass the arrow is not pluging up the only hole you have.

And your right it is pointless to lots of hunters that don't give a crap when out hunting. They buy a bow get arrows sight in on a pie plate at 20 and go shoot animals. In the shoulder , guts, butt, and all in between. They get Poor penetrations and loose animals. Then there is the lucky ones, that are just lucky.

Then there are a few and I mean just a few. That try to take bow hunting to the next level. We try to tune our bows beyond perfect. Then we do everything we can to build an arrow not for the good shoots. But for that one bad shot because something went wrong. The arrow hits square on the shoulder.

This is where all of my time that I have waisted. Trying to build that heavy, high foc arrow. All the times I've spent testing to find that momentum number that works for me. What weight of arrow that makes my bow just a little quieter to help slow down that deer reaction so that I can still make a good shot. So when I hit that animal square on the shoulder. I kill that animal. I recover that animal. And I have not injured or lost an animal that God as given me to take and feed my family.

I can guarantee you I will have a bad shot, I will lose an animal, but at the end of all my waisted time. I will at least no that I built the best arrow I could for the job.

[rocky]

You're not wasting your time.
This is what YOU want out of your bow, and it's good info for others to consider.
There are many different directions to take when bowhunting, and nearly all will get us to the same end result if we do our part correctly.
Less experienced bowhunters typically will start with a standard +/- 400 grain arrow and an FOC around 10-13 % might read this and start trying to change their set-up without understanding that what they have will kill.
In other words, inadequacies of the shooter can't be fixed with different arrows, or other components until that shooter can shoot better than the equipment he has, has killed enough animals to see results from his current set-up and then, only then, should he start this process that you are going thru.
Speed is still foremost in the minds of bowhunters, as you can see by the bows being put out are advertised according to the speed they "might" shoot, selling to the mainstream bowhunter.
It would be/actually is hard to tell a newer bowhunter that he needs to slow his bow down with an arrow like yours.

[enewman]

Morning rocky.

You are completely correct. Part of my post was just being sarcastic and to give bowhuntntxn a hard time.

We do need to remember about the new archer. That is your job. Get them in an good bow. Get them shooting. And after a few season. Then maybe interduce them into the next level. That last thing we want to do is discourage an new bow hunter. I never in person talk about this type of
Info with a new hunter

Kind of like scuba diving. I have made several dives in the 250 ft mark. But I would never talk to a new diver about that. Heck I would not talk about it to some season divers.

A lot of these post are due to people looking for answer. And hopefully we can answer then with out completely screwing them up.
Thanks