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Old 10-11-2017, 10:25 PM   #1
Stick1
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Default Test Targets With New Guns?

How important is a test target to you when purchasing a new rifle or custom gun? I’m looking for feedback from our TBH brethren regarding this topic to get a feel for how much value folks think this actually adds to the purchase of a new rifle. It is something we are considering doing moving forward as we get asked by quite a few potential customers when inquiring about our “ready to ship” production rifles.

We have not included them in the past for a multitude of reasons. One of the biggest factors is added cost. Given the number of rifles we produce we would need to hire another full time employee to set up optics, go to the range, shoot multiple brands of ammo through each gun, log data, clean rifles and remove optics every day of the week. All of that expense would have to be passed on to the customer for something they might not want or need. Secondly, we are confident in the product we produce and back it up. If a customer is not happy with it, neither are we…... Period. So is it really worth the extra $$ on the final price tag for a piece of paper with some holes in it? I also question if it really represents the true potential of the gun being sold. All it shows me is the test shooters skill that day with that particular lot of factory ammo in those particular conditions with a brand new barrel that hasn’t even begun to show it’s potential yet. None of which is valuable to me and I personally wouldn’t want to pay extra for it.

All that said, we’re building them not buying them and my views and opinions on it take a back seat to those of our customer’s. As mentioned earlier, we have received quite a few requests to include them when we list a new rifle for sale. We have no problem with doing just that if that’s what most customers really want to see. We just don’t want to add unnecessary costs if a majority of customers won’t find value in it, as it would be adding considerable costs to the final product.

So, what are YOUR thoughts???

I did grab 2 production rifles off the wall this morning, scoped them up and took them to the range and shot a couple test targets. Both shot 5 shot groups under ˝” with factory ammo after a couple sighters to get them close on paper. I still don’t feel like I did either one justice. We’ll be posting them tomorrow on Facebook, Instagram or some such with the targets, so I guess we will see how its received.

Thanks,
Robert
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:31 PM   #2
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I wouldn't want to pay for it unless it included load development honestly.
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:36 PM   #3
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Personally, it would depend on how much money I spent.

$2K semi custom, I wouldn’t care, wouldn’t really expect, and honestly would hope I could get a better group with fine tuning some loads/tweaking the setup.

Full custom with a very detailed build spec and a $3K+ price, I’d prefer to shoot with the builder using my optics before leaving with the rifle in my possession. If the builder had a good radar chrono and would help gather data/work up an initial load quickly with me shooting - I’d pay extra for that service regardless of price I spent on the rifle.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:43 AM   #4
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I wouldn't want to pay for it unless it included load development honestly.
This.
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:19 AM   #5
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It all depends on the Builder. My Gun Smith guarantees 1/2 MOA with Factory Ammo at a 100 yards. Every rifle they build comes with a Target and they build a ton of rifles. It's his way to make sure it shoots 1/2 MOA before it leaves. It also puts the customer at ease knowing there rifle will shoot. It really depends on your business model if you guarantee it to shoot or not. By adding a Target I think it eliminates anyone coming back and saying there Rifle won't shoot. It also lets the customer know the potential of the rifle. I personally won't buy a Custom Rifle from a builder without a target or guarantee. You could also look at this way. Customer spends several thousand dollars on a rifle, he finally receives it after months of waiting. Rifle won't shoot, know he has to send it back. That will leave a pretty bad taste in his mouth, after spending a few thousand on the rifle. If you would have shot the rifle, it wouldn't have left your shop until it met your standards.
So yes I think you should start doing this.
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:42 AM   #6
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If it isn't tested before leaving your shop, how do you know how well it will shot?
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:22 AM   #7
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In my opinion, there are two different classifications here. Factory ammo vs load development. Load development would add up to huge costs in labor, inventory, and dies. I feel that is the gun owners responsibility and part of what I enjoy with reloading. I would guess that the cost required for load development would be higher than a majority would want to pay.

Building a custom rifle to shoot factory ammo in a half inch group would need to be limited to specific calibers that offer match ammo good enough to make this claim.

Ultimately I would say no it is not worth it with the way you stand behind your rifles anyway.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:30 AM   #8
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Building a custom rifle to shoot factory ammo in a half inch group would need to be limited to specific calibers that offer match ammo good enough to make this claim.
This has become the norm and it's not caliber specific and match ammo is not needed it's done every day with regular factory hunting ammunition. Many builders are doing this.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:35 AM   #9
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If you gaurantee your guns to shoot sub MOA and stand by it I wouldn't have to have a target, Some people will shoot better and some shoot worse than the guy testing these rifles.for the guys that don't shoot that well the Target could keep them from coming back saying the rifle didn't shoot as well as the garantee that APR places on your rifles.jmo
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:52 AM   #10
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This has become the norm and it's not caliber specific and match ammo is not needed it's done every day with regular factory hunting ammunition. Many builders are doing this.
Show me a half inch 30-30 then.
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:44 AM   #11
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Hmmmmm.....I'm a little mixed on this. For your repeat customers that know the quality of APR, an added cost for accuracy confirmation may not be important.

However, I'll bet the majority of sales go to customers who shoot factory ammunition. Knowing what works up front would be very desirable in my opinion.

Overall, I see a test target as a good thing and would be willing to pay extra for the accuracy confirmation, especially knowing it shoots factory ammo sub-moa.
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:50 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by mpotts View Post
If you gaurantee your guns to shoot sub MOA and stand by it I wouldn't have to have a target, Some people will shoot better and some shoot worse than the guy testing these rifles.for the guys that don't shoot that well the Target could keep them from coming back saying the rifle didn't shoot as well as the garantee that APR places on your rifles.jmo
Agreed except I would expect well under 1 moa on even a semi custom gun.

My opinion is that if you show enough target pics of every rifle you can put them with that a customer has bought then that's what I'd do. One of my smiths keeps a book with nearly every build they have done. They do load work at the customers request and expense and they include a copy of the target from final load including data that goes beside the pic. You can see color options and parts options this way as well as how well they shoot. I always Leary of a smith that would rather show pics of what all their builds look like instead of how they shoot. And I expect every single full custom to shoot well under .5 moa. The ES and SD they got on their loads also interests me. A slammer 100 yard group doesn't always equal a hammer rifle at 1000+. And I know a vast majority of the public can't reload AND shoot all that well to repeat those groups consistently.

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Old 10-12-2017, 09:02 AM   #13
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Here's a 5 shot group at 100 yards with a rifle Robert built. This group was shot off a bipod laying prone.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeGraves View Post
Here's a 5 shot group at 100 yards with a rifle Robert built. This group was shot off a bipod laying prone.
6 Creedmoor or Dasher?
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:29 AM   #15
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Realistically if a mfg want to do this they need a tunnel test facility and capital to do it. You can't cherry pick the weather conditions with any kind of year round production schedule. Just not affordable for most builders.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:34 AM   #16
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Maybe offer it as an option. I wouldn't pay extra for it. If I buy a custom built gun and it doesn't group it's going back.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:37 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by bowpro12 View Post
6 Creedmoor or Dasher?
6 Creed.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:31 AM   #18
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If the rifle is complete and on the wall for sale than sure great selling feature. Is the customer capable of mounting a quality scope choosing the correct ammo and executing the shot? the customer that is knowledgeable about what they want case, twist already know what bullet they are going to shoot I doubt they want your target. Defiantly have it priced as a option. Soo many variables my smith uses a 42x benchrest scope a SEB rest his bench is inside his shop and rock solid to do testing. Am I ever going to repeat his group with a hunting scope and bipod.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:46 AM   #19
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If I was about to buy an APR and had the choice, I would opt to NOT pay for the additional service.
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:33 AM   #20
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Thanks for the feedback gentlemen, please keep it coming. Most of your opinions seem to mirror my own at this point. Load development targets mean everything, factory ammo...not so much.

Jake brought up a really good point that I failed to mention when listing reasons we are not doing it currently. Some rounds are just not commercially available in quality or variety suitable for meeting any kind of guarantee. No matter how well built a rifle is, you can bet it will not shoot ALL factory ammo into tight little clusters. Every barrel is an individual and likes what it likes. This is a problem when limited or low quality ammo choices are all thats available for a particular chambering.

I'll take this a step further, and illustrate another situation that has some bearing on this. Even the "good" factory ammo is inconsistent enough to skew the results when attempting to judge a rifle's potential based on a test target. I built a fleet of demo guns last year to take to range days, press events, etc. I chambered them all in 6.5 Creed simply because of ammo quality and availability. I now have 3 different partial cases of 140 ELD sitting in my office from 3 different lots over the past year. One case averages .2-.3 in all the rifles, one averages .4-.5 and one struggles to maintain .75. A test target with any one of these rifles would simply be a test target for Hornady and their lot of ammo that was shot, as the .75 target would not show anything about the rifles capabilities in my mind.

Thanks,
Robert
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:31 PM   #21
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Test target I do not see the value.

Test firing I do. I like to see a piece of fired brass. It shows that the rifle is safe to operate, will go bang and that the chamber is polished.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:49 PM   #22
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I could go either way on this but I'd lean towards providing the target. I'm looking at it as strictly a business decision. I don't know if the bulk of your business on new rifles is made up of repeat customers or new(er) customers but I'm assuming you have a lot new clients. For them, an included target is a big selling point, imo. I look at a lot of the replies on here and many of them are from guys that know you and have personal experience with your rifles and level of customer service. I agree with them that I would not, personally, need a target from you but I have spent a LOT of time reading about your rifles and seeing people I respect rave about your rifles and customer service. If I just learned about you, though, I would find the combination of an accuracy guarantee AND a target very comforting, especially when spending $2k+ For many people $2k or more for a rifle represents a LOT of money. Putting their mind at ease is a great way to close the deal on a sale. Again, it all depends on your target market and client demographic. If the bulk of your sales are going to regular and accomplished handloaders and long range shooters, a 100yd target with factory ammo may be meaningless. On the other hand, if the majority of your rifle buyers are more traditional hunters and weekend range shooters who shoot factory ammo and consider 400-500yds "long range," then a target showing that a rifle produces .5" (or smaller) cloverleafs at 100yds is a huge selling point!



I would think that test firing your rifles would be a minimal cost that could easily pay for itself. #1: It would certainly provide another level of quality control. Assuring that the errant fluke rifle doesn't make it into customers' hands. This would cut down on the expense of repair and even further increase customer satisfaction. Case in point- I had a rifle built by a well known and respected gunsmith that, upon arrival, only shot .7 with factory match ammo. Turns out there was a small flaw in the bedding. Once corrected, it shot .3 with same ammo. Point being, mistakes happen and without shooting, some can't be revealed. #2: It would provide you with proof positive evidence that the rifle shot as advertised when it left the shop. I would think that together, these two advantages would pay for the minimal expense. I mean, it wouldn't take long to slap a scope on a rifle, and the 5-7 shots it takes to get near the the bullseye and produce a 3 shot group. You could have a dedicated scope in a unimount that goes on a pic rail - you don't need to worry about any very minimal cant that might be present since you're only shooting 100yds for a group. At most, you're talking 15 minutes and probably $10 (average) in ammo. I would find it kind of surprising that the minimal cost of test firing couldn't be found somewhere in the cost of a $2k+ rifle.

There are a LOT of great rifle builders out there today for consumers to choose from. I would imagine that the challenge for any builder today would be to differentiate themselves from the competition. I'm not saying test targets are the ultimate deciding factor but if I was looking at 2 great smiths to buy a build a rifle, and one offered a test target and the other didn't, I'd go with the guy including a test target. If I walk into a shop selling rifles off the shelf and they think enough of their rifles to include test targets to prove their claims, I find that more reassuring than just the claim.




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Old 10-12-2017, 12:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bphillips View Post
I wouldn't want to pay for it unless it included load development honestly.


Yep I feel the same. If I was paying to have load development done, then yes that should be part of that service.

Since most people that are buying custom guns usually don’t shoot factory Ammo, I don’t see the value of the additional cost.

However assuming that you do Test fire the rifle as part of a fire functional Test, I would expect those 2-3 fired cases to be included.

Edited to add: if you are offering an accuracy guarantee with your rifle then yes I think a target should be included. It should be discussed with the purchaser what the main purpose of the rifle would be and agree up front on exactly which factory Ammo it is to be tested with.


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Last edited by Mike D; 10-12-2017 at 12:57 PM..
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:05 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horitexan View Post
I could go either way on this but I'd lean towards providing the target. I'm looking at it as strictly a business decision. I don't know if the bulk of your business on new rifles is made up of repeat customers or new(er) customers but I'm assuming you have a lot new clients. For them, an included target is a big selling point, imo. I look at a lot of the replies on here and many of them are from guys that know you and have personal experience with your rifles and level of customer service. I agree with them that I would not, personally, need a target from you but I have spent a LOT of time reading about your rifles and seeing people I respect rave about your rifles and customer service. If I just learned about you, though, I would find the combination of an accuracy guarantee AND a target very comforting, especially when spending $2k+ For many people $2k or more for a rifle represents a LOT of money. Putting their mind at ease is a great way to close the deal on a sale. Again, it all depends on your target market and client demographic. If the bulk of your sales are going to regular and accomplished handloaders and long range shooters, a 100yd target with factory ammo may be meaningless. On the other hand, if the majority of your rifle buyers are more traditional hunters and weekend range shooters who shoot factory ammo and consider 400-500yds "long range," then a target showing that a rifle produces .5" (or smaller) cloverleafs at 100yds is a huge selling point!



I would think that test firing your rifles would be a minimal cost that could easily pay for itself. #1: It would certainly provide another level of quality control. Assuring that the errant fluke rifle doesn't make it into customers' hands. This would cut down on the expense of repair and even further increase customer satisfaction. Case in point- I had a rifle built by a well known and respected gunsmith that, upon arrival, only shot .7 with factory match ammo. Turns out there was a small flaw in the bedding. Once corrected, it shot .3 with same ammo. Point being, mistakes happen and without shooting, some can't be revealed. #2: It would provide you with proof positive evidence that the rifle shot as advertised when it left the shop. I would think that together, these two advantages would pay for the minimal expense. I mean, it wouldn't take long to slap a scope on a rifle, and the 5-7 shots it takes to get near the the bullseye and produce a 3 shot group. You could have a dedicated scope in a unimount that goes on a pic rail - you don't need to worry about any very minimal cant that might be present since you're only shooting 100yds for a group. At most, you're talking 15 minutes and probably $10 (average) in ammo. I would find it kind of surprising that the minimal cost of test firing couldn't be found somewhere in the cost of a $2k+ rifle.

There are a LOT of great rifle builders out there today for consumers to choose from. I would imagine that the challenge for any builder today would be to differentiate themselves from the competition. I'm not saying test targets are the ultimate deciding factor but if I was looking at 2 great smiths to buy a build a rifle, and one offered a test target and the other didn't, I'd go with the guy including a test target. If I walk into a shop selling rifles off the shelf and they think enough of their rifles to include test targets to prove their claims, I find that more reassuring than just the claim.




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Good input, and EXACTLY why we are on the fence when considering this. It does require a trip off-site, and it would be a number of rifles each day vs. a quick trip to test a single unit. All rifles are certainly test fired for safety function multiple times before they leave the shop, but short of our test fire chamber there is not much more that we can test in our current facility.
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:56 PM   #25
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I don't see how including a target can hurt your customer satisfaction in any way. I'm the kind of guy that would have to save for a log time to buy one of your rifles and it should would make me a lot less nervous if I had proof it was going to shoot well.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:13 PM   #26
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Maybe offer it as an option. I wouldn't pay extra for it. If I buy a custom built gun and it doesn't group it's going back.


I agree with this
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:25 PM   #27
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I don't see how including a target can hurt your customer satisfaction in any way. I'm the kind of guy that would have to save for a log time to buy one of your rifles and it should would make me a lot less nervous if I had proof it was going to shoot well.


Only hurts if the extra costa associated with this drove customers to purchase elsewhere.

APR's if your not happy then we aren't happy guarantee should calm any nerves about whether or not your rifle will shoot. If it doesn't they will do what it takes to make sure it does.

IMO, provide the service on an as requested basis, using the buyers supplied glass. Charge this customer for mounting the glass and sighting the rifle and give them the sight target.
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:22 PM   #28
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Just thinking out loud here ...

The APR rifles speak for themselves. As the custom rifle builder, you guys control the objective data: bedding, threading, chambering, tolerances, run-out, etc... You have no control over the subjective data which directly effects accuracy: factory ammo, bullet seating depth, shooter bench technique, front and rear rest used, weather conditions, etc... As noted above, factory ammo varies from lot to lot. Powder is usually custom blended for each specific cartridge. Regardless of manufacturer, no 2 lots of factory ammo are exactly the same which is why brand X may shooter better than brand Z. Hand loading is on a whole different planet where the shooter can fine tune multiple variables for precision accuracy.

Personally, I don't feel the need for a "test target" with my custom rifle build. I know what the rifles are capable of in the hands of a skilled shooter under ideal conditions. Cooper Rifles include a TT and they are impressive. However it helps to know the facts.... 47 yd indoor range using a 36x bench rest scope. Regardless, they still shoot darn good for a custom, production rifle.

In closing, any reputable barrel maker or Gun Smith will work with the customer to make sure they are satisfied should the barrel not meet realistic expectations. Carry on gentlemen.

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Old 10-12-2017, 05:43 PM   #29
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I don't think it's a big deal. Your business seems well established with a great reputation for accuracy. If you back it with a guarantee that your customers know you will honor, good enough.

I could see a benefit of it for a new company trying to break into the scene and woo customers from other builders. But, as you mention, an added expense.

My boss has bought several Cooper rifles in the past 6 years that I have worked for him. He is always peeing himself about the target they ship with the gun (but that includes load data).
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:57 PM   #30
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Why not just offer it as a paid option? Some guys (me) like to buy a bunch of factory ammo and figure out what their gun likes. Ammo, gas, range fees, and time are all "costs" that the customer incurs.

Some guys might like to defer those "costs" by having *you* do the work, send them a test target, and maybe even include the partially-filled box of ammo that shot best. Make it optional and everyone wins.

How cool would it be today to buy a rifle made in 1917 that came with the manufacturer's test target and half a box of ammo?
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:04 PM   #31
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Then you would need to discount them for being a used gun...
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:50 PM   #32
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Then you would need to discount them for being a used gun...
Gotta admit, I felt a little guilty shooting "other people's" guns the past couple of days
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:11 PM   #33
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Gotta admit, I felt a little guilty shooting "other people's" guns the past couple of days
It's all in a tough days work isn't it?
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:28 PM   #34
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After working with 5 different APR rifles I say as long as it has this there is no test target required.

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Old 10-12-2017, 09:49 PM   #35
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I think for a medium to large size faceless company who offers an accuracy guarantee for a rifle, then yes a test target is a good idea to help ease the mind of the purchaser.

In the case of APR I see little added value but agree making it a paid option couldn't hurt. I saved for a year when I purchased my first APR semi-custom rifle and I too had the question of accuracy but ultimately with the guarantee APR offers, the reputation for accuracy and the willingness to make it right if the rifle dosent shoot I was at ease purchasing from them. Anyone in the market for a rifle of this caliber, semi or full custom, will do their research before deciding on a builder. At that point accuracy should be a given and as others have said if it doesn't shoot it's going back.

With all of the variables in factory ammo, optics, weather, shooting conditions and shooter abilities a test target is only a snapshot of what that rifle was capable of under those particular conditions and may not truly represent it's actual capabilities.

On a somewhat related side note, I think offering load development and even custom ammunition paired to your rifle would be a valuable service. As part of a full custom build you could offer free, or discounted load development contingent on a minimum ammunition purchase. If a customer did not want to purchase any ammunition they could still pay for the load development service. Just a thought!

I have both semi and full custom rifles from APR and both shoot sub 1/2" MOA if I do my part! My next custom rifle I have in mind will also be built by you guys!

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Old 10-12-2017, 10:24 PM   #36
bboswell
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Originally Posted by jstanton View Post
On a somewhat related side note, I think offering load development and even custom ammunition paired to your rifle would be a valuable service. As part of a full custom build you could offer free, or discounted load development contingent on a minimum ammunition purchase. If a customer did not want to purchase any ammunition they could still pay for the load development service. Just a thought!


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I concur.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:44 PM   #37
bphillips
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Originally Posted by jstanton View Post
I think for a medium to large size faceless company who offers an accuracy guarantee for a rifle, then yes a test target is a good idea to help ease the mind of the purchaser.

In the case of APR I see little added value but agree making it a paid option couldn't hurt. I saved for a year when I purchased my first APR semi-custom rifle and I too had the question of accuracy but ultimately with the guarantee APR offers, the reputation for accuracy and the willingness to make it right if the rifle dosent shoot I was at ease purchasing from them. Anyone in the market for a rifle of this caliber, semi or full custom, will do their research before deciding on a builder. At that point accuracy should be a given and as others have said if it doesn't shoot it's going back.

With all of the variables in factory ammo, optics, weather, shooting conditions and shooter abilities a test target is only a snapshot of what that rifle was capable of under those particular conditions and may not truly represent it's actual capabilities.

On a somewhat related side note, I think offering load development and even custom ammunition paired to your rifle would be a valuable service. As part of a full custom build you could offer free, or discounted load development contingent on a minimum ammunition purchase. If a customer did not want to purchase any ammunition they could still pay for the load development service. Just a thought!

I have both semi and full custom rifles from APR and both shoot sub 1/2" MOA if I do my part! My next custom rifle I have in mind will also be built by you guys!

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Not sure about free. That's generally a $350 minimum on load development for an add on. Not sure they can manufacture ammo either but if they got in with someone like Chad at Dallas Reloads it would be pretty appealing for sure if it was discounted
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:49 PM   #38
chuckw
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Originally Posted by JakeGraves View Post
Show me a half inch 30-30 then.
i have fired 2 sub 1/4moa dirty 30's....
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Old 10-13-2017, 04:46 PM   #39
Stick1
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Don't know why, but I've always thought a Rem 788 in 30-30AI would be a cool project. Now watch me hijack my own thread
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Old 10-13-2017, 07:58 PM   #40
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i have fired 2 sub 1/4moa dirty 30's....
That I need to see! Never even seen a 2moa dirty thirty.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:36 PM   #41
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Realistically if a mfg want to do this they need a tunnel test facility and capital to do it. You can't cherry pick the weather conditions with any kind of year round production schedule. Just not affordable for most builders.
Yep---used to do load workup for folks as a job/hobby and it was rolling the dice on weater/wind conditions I might face. I wouldn't want to pay for something that I love to do.

Maybe offer it "optional at extra cost."
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:58 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by JakeGraves View Post
That I need to see! Never even seen a 2moa dirty thirty.
That one I suppressed was sub moa with a dang trijicon RMR lol
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Old 10-14-2017, 05:18 AM   #43
chuckw
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Originally Posted by JakeGraves View Post
That I need to see! Never even seen a 2moa dirty thirty.
these were 2 full on benchrest rifles built on a bet using custom actions and 18 twist barrels. they shot as well as most 6ppc or 30br rifles out there and i was shooting "cheap" bullets. the best bullet we used was a 125gr berger and both the LV and HV were shooting in the .1xx range with boring regularity. i do believe some chambering are "inherently accurate", but those rifles proved to me that a good barrel spun up right and good ammunition trump anything else. here is a link to the rifles and story i just relayed.
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...enchrest/page5

Last edited by chuckw; 10-14-2017 at 05:25 AM..
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:45 AM   #44
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So... About that full time position test firing some of the most amazing rifles ever made. Where do I sign up? Legitimately sounds like my dream job!

To answer your question though, I would make it an option offered at extra expense. After all the reviews I've seen on here, I would not need a test target. But I could see how it could a desirable option for some customers.
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Old 10-17-2017, 12:14 PM   #45
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I can definitely understand the requests for test targets with a custom build, but honestly, I think the best option would be the following:

Have a tab on your website with buyer submitted reviews of their guns with photos of their rifles, test targets, and overall review of their experience. You can also provide contact info to existing customers - email, phone #, for new customers to contact for their feedback.

Similar to an outfitter who guarantees a certain B&C score; I'd rather talk to people who have actually hunted with the outfitter and get their honest opinion rather than see trail camera pics.

At the end of the day, how many more guns would you sell if you included test targets and how much more cost would that add to each rifle? The website option seems to be a good alternative.

I'd be happy to submit reviews 1-4 and provide contact info if you go that route ��
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Old 10-17-2017, 12:46 PM   #46
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Personally, it would depend on how much money I spent.

$2K semi custom, I wouldn’t care, wouldn’t really expect, and honestly would hope I could get a better group with fine tuning some loads/tweaking the setup.

Full custom with a very detailed build spec and a $3K+ price, I’d prefer to shoot with the builder using my optics before leaving with the rifle in my possession. If the builder had a good radar chrono and would help gather data/work up an initial load quickly with me shooting - I’d pay extra for that service regardless of price I spent on the rifle.
X2
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