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Old 07-28-2017, 01:51 PM   #51
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Yep. So are the millions that get to keep their healthcare.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:56 PM   #52
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There is hell to pay. If each of us did our job and informed 10 voters of the treachery these slime balls have hung around our necks like a dead chicken, we may prevail. Let's get it done and get these losers out of D.C.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:00 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC View Post
Yep. So are the millions that get to keep their healthcare.

I know, you cannot answer this because your head is in your vagina but try to stay with me:

What about the people who, because of Treason Care, lost or can no longer afford insurance they once had?

Step up to the plate and play big boy games and answer the question.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:01 PM   #54
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Single payer!!! Look it up on the inter web thingy.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:06 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by SMC View Post
Single payer!!! Look it up on the inter web thingy.
Soooooooo, as stated, you can't answer the question.

Last edited by Livin'2hunt; 07-28-2017 at 02:09 PM..
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:07 PM   #56
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I just did!!! Single payer. Health care for ALL.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:22 PM   #57
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Single payer!!! Look it up on the inter web thingy.
well it sounds good don't it. who is going to pay for it? my taxes are high enough right now.
do you think single payer will help out the economy or will it drive business out of the country.
just something to ponder.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:33 PM   #58
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Quote:
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I just did!!! Single payer. Health care for ALL.
That'd cost more than we have. It'd fail right out of the gate, just like Obummercare.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:34 PM   #59
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Quote:
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I just did!!! Single payer. Health care for ALL.
Here are some questions to make my point:


When was the last time YOU had to financially meet payroll for employees? To be more specific, the money came from your account.

When people or companies cannot afford your delusional utopia, what should happen to them? Imprisonment, torture, execution?

Let's hear the financial genius that is SMC. Take your best swing.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:38 PM   #60
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I'm not a financial genius nor did I ever have to meet a payroll. I'm just a working dude. And all the companies I worked for paid full benifits. I have absolutely no problem paying more in taxes so everyone has healthcare.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:40 PM   #61
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Quote:
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I'm not a financial genius nor did I ever have to meet a payroll. I'm just a working dude. And all the companies I worked for paid full benifits. I have absolutely no problem paying more in taxes so everyone has healthcare.
What about the Government being able to force you purchase a product you may or may not have otherwise wanted? Do you have a problem with that?
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:43 PM   #62
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Nope. Just like the government mandated retirement plan that everyone pays into.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:45 PM   #63
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Nope. Just like the government mandated retirement plan that everyone pays into.
Fair point. I have strong issue with that ponzy scheme as well. Let's call it what it is though. It's theft. Just like the government forcing you to buy a product is theft.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:47 PM   #64
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Why do you call it theft.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:50 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC View Post
I'm not a financial genius nor did I ever have to meet a payroll. I'm just a working dude. And all the companies I worked for paid full benifits. I have absolutely no problem paying more in taxes so everyone has healthcare.
Well, not everyone can be a thoroughbred. Some people will always be donkeys.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:53 PM   #66
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Nope. Just like the government mandated retirement plan that everyone pays into.
Social Security? It's a government-run Ponzi scheme which will be bankrupt in less than 20 years. It is the best argument AGAINST single-payer.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:55 PM   #67
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It's worked for all these years. I've been hearing it's going to be broke for far more than 20 years. A lot of people depend on it.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:55 PM   #68
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Quote:
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Why do you call it theft.

I can't opt out of it. I have no say what it is ACTUALLY used for. I receive no benefit from it and never will at my age. They are taking money from me AGAINST MY WILL to give to others that have paid in before me. It's Bernie Madolf with Government stamp of approval.

Before you ask. Yes I feel the same way about most taxes.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:58 PM   #69
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Quote:
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It's worked for all these years. I've been hearing it's going to be broke for far more than 20 years. A lot of people depend on it.
And what could those people have done with that money if they weren't forced to give it to Uncle Sugar? Do individuals not possess the right to choose for themselves what they do with what they earned?
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:01 PM   #70
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This really belongs on a separate thread. I'll take care of it...
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:02 PM   #71
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I can't opt out of it. I have no say what it is ACTUALLY used for. I receive no benefit from it and never will at my age. They are taking money from me AGAINST MY WILL to give to others that have paid in before me. It's Bernie Madolf with Government stamp of approval.

Before you ask. Yes I feel the same way about most taxes.
Ok. Cool

I on the other hand, am happy to pay taxes. Yes really I am. I feel if you live in a society.... ya gots to pay. And here's the great part.... you do get to choose how it's spend. You vote!! But you don't always get your way agreed. But that's the price you pay to live in a society.
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:04 PM   #72
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I don't know ****.
Fify.
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:06 PM   #73
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Hey!!! I didn't post that!!!
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:08 PM   #74
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New thread is up.
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:09 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by SMC View Post
Ok. Cool

I on the other hand, am happy to pay taxes. Yes really I am. I feel if you live in a society.... ya gots to pay. And here's the great part.... you do get to choose how it's spend. You vote!! But you don't always get your way agreed. But that's the price you pay to live in a society.


I'm not saying all taxes. If Government would stay in it's lane, taxes would not be close to where they are and we would see the tangible benefits. Instead, they take, spend it on votes, programs that do nothing but keep the people "benefiting" from them down, waste it on contracts to friends, etc.
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:20 PM   #76
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Nobody was dying in the streets for lack of access to doctors before Obamacare. But if we end up with single payer government run healthcare, a whole bunch of people will not have access to the care they need when they need it. It will be like going to the DMV.

It's not about paying taxes or helping people who need help. It's about whether government or the private sector can do a better job in providing healthcare to the people. There will be flaws and weaknesses in either system, but if we let the government take control of it it will be worse than if the private sector runs it. THAT is what it's about.
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:23 PM   #77
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Nobody was dying in the streets for lack of access to doctors before Obamacare. But if we end up with single payer government run healthcare, a whole bunch of people will not have access to the care they need when they need it. It will be like going to the DMV.

It's not about paying taxes or helping people who need help. It's about whether government or the private sector can do a better job in providing healthcare to the people. There will be flaws and weaknesses in either system, but if we let the government take control of it it will be worse than if the private sector runs it. THAT is what it's about.


Nail on the head Shane. There is no incentive for efficiency, or quality in a Government run system. There will be incentive for collecting more taxes.
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:26 PM   #78
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I just watched the actual video of the vote and McDramaqueen literally gave an arm-extended-long-pause-for-effect thumbs down to cast his vote against the bill i.e. Roman emperor style.

With his POW torture and his health issues, he seriously needs an intervention.
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:34 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane View Post
It's not about paying taxes or helping people who need help. It's about whether government or the private sector can do a better job in providing healthcare to the people. There will be flaws and weaknesses in either system, but if we let the government take control of it it will be worse than if the private sector runs it. THAT is what it's about.
+ we simply cannot afford it, period. Almost $20T in debt right now.

It would likely greatly increase illegal immigration and cause many aspiring medical students to choose other careers outside of medicine leading to inevitable doctor shortages. Would you go through 15 years of med school taking on ~$500k in student loan debt to work a government job?
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:34 PM   #80
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There are many things the private sector does better than the government. Healthcare isn't one of them.

I would refer you to stats in other first world countries but you wouldn't believe them.

But US lags behind in pretty much all the metrics related to public health compared to countries that have single payer systems. And we pay more. Way more

PS: before anyone tells me to move there..... I'm not!!

Last edited by SMC; 07-28-2017 at 03:35 PM.. Reason: .
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:36 PM   #81
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Just ask Charlie Gard's parents how well government run health insurance works.
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:36 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC View Post
There are many things the private sector does better than the government. Healthcare isn't one of them.

I would refer you to stats in other first world countries but you wouldn't believe them.

But US lags behind in pretty much all the metrics related to public health compared to countries that have single payer systems. And we pay more. Way more

PS: before anyone tells me to move there..... I'm not!!
Countries with similar population and demographic makeup as ours? Or are they much smaller and more homogeneous? Also, where do their rich go for healthcare?

Last edited by Clay C; 07-28-2017 at 03:39 PM..
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:37 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC View Post
There are many things the private sector does better than the government. Healthcare isn't one of them.

I would refer you to stats in other first world countries but you wouldn't believe them.

But US lags behind in pretty much all the metrics related to public health compared to countries that have single payer systems. And we pay more. Way more

PS: before anyone tells me to move there..... I'm not!!
Why do people from Canada and Europe come to the US for the healthcare they need when they can't get it from their own government's systems?
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:38 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC View Post
There are many things the private sector does better than the government. Healthcare isn't one of them.

I would refer you to stats in other first world countries but you wouldn't believe them.

But US lags behind in pretty much all the metrics related to public health compared to countries that have single payer systems. And we pay more. Way more

PS: before anyone tells me to move there..... I'm not!!
Then why did we have people from Canada and the U.K., among others, coming to the U.S. for treatment? As far as government ran healthcare, the VA is a prime example of that. NO THANKS!!
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:39 PM   #85
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Yeah right!! Ask parents that just lost their baby!! I can only imagine what they going thru.
This is not an issue that should be decided on emotions!!

Facts!!! The problem is we believe in different sets of "facts"
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:40 PM   #86
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Yeah right!! Ask parents that just lost their baby!! I can only imagine what they going thru.
This is not an issue that should be decided on emotions!!

Facts!!!
The problem is we believe in different sets of "facts"
Ok. Emotions aside, the facts are their government prevented him from getting the care that could have saved him.
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:41 PM   #87
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Why do people from Canada and Europe come to the US for the healthcare they need when they can't get it from their own government's systems?
Come on man!! That's not true at all. It's only the very very heeled people that come here. That too very very few compared to the populations of that countries
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:47 PM   #88
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Yeah right!! Ask parents that just lost their baby!! I can only imagine what they going thru.
This is not an issue that should be decided on emotions!!

Facts!!! The problem is we believe in different sets of "facts"
Exactly. The emotional argument that government can provide "healthcare" for everybody is the wrong thing to base the decision on. They call it "healthcare", but what we're talking about is health insurance. CARE is what you get from the doctors and nurses and hospitals. How you pay for it is what we're talking about. By putting government in charge of the money, you also give them control over who gets access to what. The Charlie Gard case is a VERY real factual example of what that is like. It's also illustrative of why so many others from those countries that have the "superior" healthcare systems are all clamoring to come to the US to get the care they need when their governments won't allow them to get it at home.

You can believe all the so-called statics that are slanted to "prove" an argument in favor of government run health insurance if you want to, but that doesn't make it fact that those systems are better than ours. The US has a lot more uninsured people showing up in those stats because of the huge illegal immigration problem that we have - that those other countries don't have. And yet, if you go to our emergency rooms, all those uninsured illegals are getting all the free healthcare they need. And people from the countries that have "better" healthcare than we do are coming here as well to get care.

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who has the best healthcare system on the planet. Why we'd want to be more like the countries who are lagging behind us in that regard is beyond me.
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:48 PM   #89
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Come on man!! That's not true at all. It's only the very very heeled people that come here. That too very very few compared to the populations of that countries
EXACTLY. Only those who can afford it or who can raise enough money to make the journey can get to America to get the best care. The average socialist country citizen is STUCK in their crappy government-controlled system. (like the Gard family) Wouldn't it be great if we lowered the quality of our system here so that we could be on a level playing field with the rest of them?
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:55 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Livin'2hunt View Post
I know, you cannot answer this because your head is in your vagina but try to stay with me:

What about the people who, because of Treason Care, lost or can no longer afford insurance they once had?

Step up to the plate and play big boy games and answer the question.
One million were sacrificed for 42million
It's a numbers game
Pure and simple

Those one million took it on the chin for their country

Thank you for their service
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:58 PM   #91
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Hey SMC - Do you personally know anyone that lives in a country with a single-payer socialized system? My bets are that you don't. I know a lot of Canadians. Went to college with them up in Alaska. Have met a bunch more while vacationing in Mexico. Not a single one of them felt the Canadian system was better than ours before ObamaCare. Not one. And all of them would come to the US to get treatment for something major when they could. Why? Because there aren't enough doctors, the doctors there aren't as good as the ones in the US and the government has to grant permission for certain procedures.

My facts come from people I've met and known from another country and hearing their stories.

You have no clue.
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:59 PM   #92
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What about the Government being able to force you purchase a product you may or may not have otherwise wanted? Do you have a problem with that?
It's called car insurance
And seatbelts
Do you not own a car newer than 1990?
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Old 07-28-2017, 04:06 PM   #93
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+ we simply cannot afford it, period. Almost $20T in debt right now.

It would likely greatly increase illegal immigration and cause many aspiring medical students to choose other careers outside of medicine leading to inevitable doctor shortages. Would you go through 15 years of med school taking on ~$500k in student loan debt to work a government job?
LoL
How many physicians work at the VA?
How many in the military?
LoL
How many doctors work at county hospitals?
Prisons?
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Old 07-28-2017, 04:08 PM   #94
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It's called car insurance
And seatbelts
Do you not own a car newer than 1990?
Car Insurance is not a federal mandate.

Seat belts are part of a car. No one forces you to purchase a car.
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Old 07-28-2017, 04:10 PM   #95
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Hey SMC - Do you personally know anyone that lives in a country with a single-payer socialized system? My bets are that you don't. I know a lot of Canadians. Went to college with them up in Alaska. Have met a bunch more while vacationing in Mexico. Not a single one of them felt the Canadian system was better than ours before ObamaCare. Not one. And all of them would come to the US to get treatment for something major when they could. Why? Because there aren't enough doctors, the doctors there aren't as good as the ones in the US and the government has to grant permission for certain procedures.

My facts come from people I've met and known from another country and hearing their stories.

You have no clue.
I've had girlfriends from Austria, Italy and England
I've lived in England with the British one
Oh and the French one once we visited St Barths and I got ocean water stuck in my ear and their little clinic on island got it out for me for free.

Not emergency.
Just an urgent care visit.

Yes, people from Texas that cast and blast actually do get out in the world
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Old 07-28-2017, 04:11 PM   #96
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It's called car insurance
And seatbelts
Do you not own a car newer than 1990?
the gov. doesn't make you buy car insurance to fix your car, they require you to have LIABILITY insurance to cover the guy you plow into.
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Old 07-28-2017, 04:17 PM   #97
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EXACTLY. Only those who can afford it or who can raise enough money to make the journey can get to America to get the best care. The average socialist country citizen is STUCK in their crappy government-controlled system. (like the Gard family) Wouldn't it be great if we lowered the quality of our system here so that we could be on a level playing field with the rest of them?
Yeah and those that can't make it here for healthcare seem to have far better health than here. Life expectancy etc.

Again like I said it boils down to if you believe cnn or brietbart for your facts.
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Old 07-28-2017, 04:22 PM   #98
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Just ask Charlie Gard's parents how well government run health insurance works.
You're smarter than this Shane.
That case was not about health insurance and you know it.
The parents had the money to seek treatment elsewhere but the govt said the boy was too sick to travel.

I've already linked a similar case in the USA from 3years ago
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Old 07-28-2017, 05:15 PM   #99
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You're smarter than this Shane.
That case was not about health insurance and you know it.
The parents had the money to seek treatment elsewhere but the govt said the boy was too sick to travel.

I've already linked a similar case in the USA from 3years ago
And you want the governments who wrote those kids off as a lost cause to be in charge of health care.
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Old 07-28-2017, 05:17 PM   #100
Mike D
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Texas
Hunt In: Haskell County, TX
Default john mccain

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC View Post
Yep. So are the millions that get to keep their healthcare.


Typical liberal spin. Everyone in the United States has access to healthcare even before Obamacare. No one is being refused needed medical care and dying in the streets.

Health insurance is a whole Nother discussion.

But in typical liberal fashion they want everyone to be exactly the same. To hell with the 88% of people who were happy with their current insurance planned most of which can no longer get that plan but lets appease the 12% that did not have health insurance even though the majority of those voluntarily chose not to purchase it.

Do you realize how stupid that is?


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