Green Energy

[flywise]

No. No, no, NO. The German pending crash was not the issue. That link was in response to you claiming that wind power was working great in Germany and then YOU got into a tangent about that. I posted one article to counter your love fest with the German economic situation. THAT was not the topic at hand, just a rebuttal. And you can stick your labeling of me and "my tribes men". This is a discussion between us, and trying to make it look like a personal thing against you is childish. The TOPIC was the cost for benifits of wind power. The STUDY I referred to was the one by the university of Texas, proving that wind power costs more that all other energy sources added together. Those figures are per actual KW generated by wind, solar, gas, and coal. If you would read it, you would see that wind cost MORE for every KW generated. That's the study I was referring to.

Exactly right, but libs love to take one subject matter and change it to something completely different to try an make some sort of point.

[Livin'2hunt]

I cringed when the land owner told us they were putting 18 of those wind turbines in our best pasture a few years ago. They started construction after hunting season and had all of them in before dove season. We dreaded going out to look at the damage. Boy were we surprised. They had hydro mulched and seeded every one of the pad sites and deer were already grazing the lush green grass oblivious to the noise the blades made. Not only that but we now had nice roads that we could drive 50mph on getting to the feeders. These big monster wind turbines have actually helped the hunting even thought they are unsightly.
Land owner got enough money to build new fences around all the property. All 100 sections and all new cross fences too.

It must depend on the company doing to work because what I have seen has been an abomination. They told use they would hydro-mulch the roadsides but then again, every single thing they have told us thus far was a blatant lie. These are the shadiest people I have ever had the misfortune of dealing with. I hope it turns out well but I am not holding my breath. We lost A LOT of hunting ground due to their excessive road system. It has been a horrible experience thus far.

[SMC]

If fusion does not work out then maybe this will.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2142693-nano-aluminium-offers-fuel-cells-on-demand-just-add-water/

[Ironman]

If fusion does not work out then maybe this will.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...ust-add-water/

That hydrogen thing has already been tried before. First, the Feds shut him down. Then, he died...........mysteriously.

[LFD2037]

That hydrogen thing has already been tried before. First, the Feds shut him down. Then, he died...........mysteriously.

Sounds like the Super Collider that was supposed to be in Ellis County. Split an atom & have an endless power source but the gubmit says noooooooooo, you can't do that. They claimed it was over finances but I believe there was more to the story. Much more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider

[Lostacresranch]

I believe he is quoting some of the sales brochures handed out by the solar guys that walk around the neighborhoods. I have a client who needed to up her insurance to cover all the panels they installed on her house. She spent 50k for solar install and foam in her attic. They told her she would save 150 a month on her electric bill and might even sell some surplus back to the grid.

Sure felt bad for her

You could be right. Those scam artists, I mean solar energy salesmen, Gave me estimates. I got costs for 15,000-20,000 for a 3KW system. That's great, but most houses need a 5kw system or more, and they start around 30,000, good ones at 50,000. They didn't bother to mention that, but I found out after running the numbers. Also that cRap about 20 year life on batteries is BS. Panels also. So in 15 years, you are looking at another 30,000. Without that tax break, you would be an idiot to dump that much into solar.

[stickerpatch59]

You could be right. Those scam artists, I mean solar energy salesmen, Gave me estimates. I got costs for 15,000-20,000 for a 3KW system. That's great, but most houses need a 5kw system or more, and they start around 30,000, good ones at 50,000. They didn't bother to mention that, but I found out after running the numbers. Also that cRap about 20 year life on batteries is BS. Panels also. So in 15 years, you are looking at another 30,000. Without that tax break, you would be an idiot to dump that much into solar.

it's just like any other gov't program, it comes in about 100% over budget and 50% under performance, so how could you expect anything else?

[2014FusionM]

I dont think anyone is looking far enough into the future... I am not saying that the renewable energy sources we have right now are perfect or that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

But when you have enough people researching and more money poured into something like that you get technology investment. People have taken the wind turbine and said I wonder how we can make this better? so what do they do? they start putting the same concept to the sea.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/what-we-do/energy/mfc-energy-tidal-energy.html

Things don't happen overnight and they don't happen fast when there is money being exchanged on both sides of the table. Those underwater turbines never stop spinning.

[BrandonA]

I dont think anyone is looking far enough into the future... I am not saying that the renewable energy sources we have right now are perfect or that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

But when you have enough people researching and more money poured into something like that you get technology investment. People have taken the wind turbine and said I wonder how we can make this better? so what do they do? they start putting the same concept to the sea.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/what-we-do/energy/mfc-energy-tidal-energy.html

Things don't happen overnight and they don't happen fast when there is money being exchanged on both sides of the table. Those underwater turbines never stop spinning.

And they don't create a dang eye sore

[Lostacresranch]

I dont think anyone is looking far enough into the future... I am not saying that the renewable energy sources we have right now are perfect or that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

But when you have enough people researching and more money poured into something like that you get technology investment. People have taken the wind turbine and said I wonder how we can make this better? so what do they do? they start putting the same concept to the sea.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/what-we-do/energy/mfc-energy-tidal-energy.html

Things don't happen overnight and they don't happen fast when there is money being exchanged on both sides of the table. Those underwater turbines never stop spinning.

In the case of wind power in the US today, we have invested over 200 billion over 20+ years, and we got less than 5% energy return. Wind power advocates happily tell you they supply energy for populations equivalent to the pop of colo., Kansas, and Oklahoma. That sounds great, until you run the numbers. That's less than 12 million people, out of 330 million. So 318 million of us get NOTHING for our billions we put in. Wind and solar get 54% MORE subsidies than oil, gas, nuclear, every other energy source added TOGETHER. Tell me what other area of commerce or business can get away with that level of inefficiency and still be in existence?

[BrandonA]

In the case of wind power in the US today, we have invested over 200 billion over 20+ years, and we got less than 5% energy return. Wind power advocates happily tell you they supply energy for populations equivalent to the pop of colo., Kansas, and Oklahoma. That sounds great, until you run the numbers. That's less than 12 million people, out of 330 million. So 318 million of us get NOTHING for our billions we put in. Wind and solar get 54% MORE subsidies than oil, gas, nuclear, every other energy source added TOGETHER. Tell me what other area of commerce or business can get away with that level of inefficiency and still be in existence?

I've always said take away the subsidies. If they survive then there is a demand and a profitable solution. If they disappear....well the proofs in the puddin so to speak.

[2014FusionM]

In the case of wind power in the US today, we have invested over 200 billion over 20+ years, and we got less than 5% energy return. Wind power advocates happily tell you they supply energy for populations equivalent to the pop of colo., Kansas, and Oklahoma. That sounds great, until you run the numbers. That's less than 12 million people, out of 330 million. So 318 million of us get NOTHING for our billions we put in. Wind and solar get 54% MORE subsidies than oil, gas, nuclear, every other energy source added TOGETHER. Tell me what other area of commerce or business can get away with that level of inefficiency and still be in existence?

Defense companies whether it be the Big 3 or smaller companies. I was a member and my short 6 year stay I saw more money thrown at one building in my area than ever before. Also like I said wind power and solar power are not what they need to be but things that are new take time. Also another reason why it is so expensive is because we are the only ones doing it on this massive of a scale. Have you ever heard the concept of economies of scale. when there are only 1 or 2 companies building it things are expensive.

The best comparison I can put it to is when Tesla Company went and build their own manufacturing for lithium batteries that would also produce batteries for other companies. Doing this drastically dropping the overall price of the vehicle. Also another one was Ford and the Model T.

As demands grow they will become cheaper to produce in turn making it a more viable option. look at the cost of solar panels when they first came out to now.

[Lostacresranch]

Green Energy

Defense companies whether it be the Big 3 or smaller companies. I was a member and my short 6 year stay I saw more money thrown at one building in my area than ever before. Also like I said wind power and solar power are not what they need to be but things that are new take time. Also another reason why it is so expensive is because we are the only ones doing it on this massive of a scale. Have you ever heard the concept of economies of scale. when there are only 1 or 2 companies building it things are expensive.



The best comparison I can put it to is when Tesla Company went and build their own manufacturing for lithium batteries that would also produce batteries for other companies. Doing this drastically dropping the overall price of the vehicle. Also another one was Ford and the Model T.



As demands grow they will become cheaper to produce in turn making it a more viable option. look at the cost of solar panels when they first came out to now.

I doubt that, but post up those figures of a defense company that blew through 200 billion for 5% return.
And just to address your solar panel cost mention, solar is even worst than wind if you figure the subsidies.

[2014FusionM]

The F-35 back mid last year was going to cost more that $1.45 Trillion for a plane that is no longer needed. It is slow, not very maneuverable, and cannot carry a payload of other military's planes...

[Lostacresranch]

The F-35 back mid last year was going to cost more that $1.45 Trillion for a plane that is no longer needed. It is slow, not very maneuverable, and cannot carry a payload of other military's planes...

The F-35 is a project contracted by the US military taken on bids to provide a service. That's the DOD, a project approved by congress, and the costs overages have been addressed and approved. The COMPANY building this monstrosity has not invested 1.45 trillion dollars of THEIR money into it. Those are our dollars they are playing with. Point out how much of that is from THEIR operating capital.
As I said, no COMPANY would spent billions on a project that will get them the return on that money as poor as windpower gives us in energy.