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Discuss...45lc barrel threaded 6" then opens to 28 gauge for remainder

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    Discuss...45lc barrel threaded 6" then opens to 28 gauge for remainder

    Ok, so I like the idea (not execution) of a rossi circuit judge. I like having bird/rat shot handy and 45lc both at the same time..essentially selectable in the gun by cocking the gun twice. Good for snakes, coyote/pig.

    I've made and tested necked down 460 brass to fit in my 4 5/8" ruger blackhawk. It uses the full volume of the cylinder of the revolver. The rim of the cartridge goes to the end of the cylinder basically. It puts the taurus judge pattern to shame at 10 yards over and over. I can fit over 5/8 oz shot in it (almost 11/16 oz). Shoots wonderful. With the same gun, I shot a pig behind the shoulder at 102 yards (luck involved) with the 45lc. Pistol is great to carry but a longer shot takes a while to line up and you have to be more careful with sight alignment. Pistol scopes are a little hard to acquire target as well and touchier when aiming long distance with the short sight radius (think riding atv then seeing a running coyote). Id like a smaller rifle/carbine format that would allow for a low power scope. Not a fan of red dot type optics. Would also be nice to squeeze a little more range out of the shot pattern.

    The problem with the rossi is its a poor compromise to do both as its not great at either a rifle or shotgun.The main issue is that the barrel is rifled all but the last bit with the straight rifling choke at the end. The huge freebore for the 45lc makes accuracy suffer. The short straight rifled choke doesn't do a whole lot for the shotgun pattern either.

    Another problem with the Rossi is that once you have the straight rifled choke in...forget shooting the 45lc. With the choke removed its ok for 45lc...but good luck with shotgun pattern.

    The old savage over-unders are bulky and heavy. Would really love to find a compact .233 over .410...but that's a whole other discussion....




    So here is the thought:

    Chamber a barrel for 45lc. Rifle the first 5 or 6 inches. That's plenty long enough to stabilize the 45lc and get good velocity. Then open up the bore of the barrel to 28 gauge the rest of the way (.550"). Could even put in screw in chokes and not create interference with the 45lc.

    So now the questions:

    1. Would the pattern be any decent? I get a surprisingly good pattern with my 4 5/8 bbl blackhawk home made loads already. People use shotgun caliber adapters all the time and don't complain about the patterns. Would this be any different (minus the 5" of rifling affect imparted on the shot....which has proven isn't a big deal at the moment.)

    2. Would escaping gases around the 45lc once it exited the rifling portion affect accuracy (<100 yards or less..figure keeping in a 3-4" group)?

    3. I realize this will not take the place of two separate guns, but could the marginal improvement over the rossi circuit be noticeable?

    I'd love to test this theory (or maybe someone else already has and I'm not aware?).

    I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts (good and bad). I'll sit back and listen.

    -Jeremy

    #2
    1 Pattern is gonna suck cause nothing will stop the spin, will through doughnut patterns.

    2 If the crown on the rifling is cut good accuracy should be fine

    3 no

    4 the combo 223/20 guage savages type guns may be more in line with what you want to do. The judge/circuit judge guns are pretty gimmicky and are good to sell, but not so good to use.

    A normal revolver with rat shot is about the best combo style gun, but a pistol and a shotgun is considerably better

    Comment


      #3
      RJH, if the pattern is decent out of the pistol with no barrel, wouldn't a barrel help (some)? I dont really see a doughnut pattern now. Not sure if its because the 4 5/8" rifling is only a short amount or what. I definitely see it out of a bond derringer and out of a taurus judge. 7ft range and the pattern is awful.

      Wonder if the design could have some small straight rifling as well down the smooth bore portion.
      Last edited by jeremy360; 02-13-2018, 01:27 PM.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by jeremy360 View Post
        RJH, if the pattern is decent out of the pistol with no barrel, wouldn't a barrel help (some)? I guess it could have some small straight rifling as well down the smooth bore portion.
        Not really. a 28ga is too large to engage a .410 wad and shot column. Therefore not affecting it.

        Pistol shot shells work fine for snake ranges. If you are looking for something that will work further than that, the combo barrel over and unders are what you are looking for.

        Comment


          #5
          Super Comanche.
          I bought one in 6" to keep in the tool box on my tractor.

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks outbreaker. So the shotgun adapters being sold don't work that well (12 to 20, 28 to 410)?

            Kbar, never heard of a comanche...neat rig, but I would imaging would have the same issues as other 45/410 guns. Or no?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by jeremy360 View Post
              Thanks outbreaker. So the shotgun adapters being sold don't work that well (12 to 20, 28 to 410)?

              Kbar, never heard of a comanche...neat rig, but I would imaging would have the same issues as other 45/410 guns. Or no?
              Only ones that I have seen that I know work are the tubes designed to change 12ga to a 20 or 28 or 16 or .410 etc.

              The rest I would not spend money on.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by jeremy360 View Post
                Thanks outbreaker. So the shotgun adapters being sold don't work that well (12 to 20, 28 to 410)?

                Kbar, never heard of a comanche...neat rig, but I would imaging would have the same issues as other 45/410 guns. Or no?
                Reviews of the shot shell portion seem to be better than the Judge. One went so far as to say shooting skeet or maybe flying birds with it around 30 yards.
                They are utilitarian and cheap and I mean real cheap. Its the Hi point of the singleshot world but I got mine to shoot snakes with.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Kbar View Post
                  Reviews of the shot shell portion seem to be better than the Judge. One went so far as to say shooting skeet or maybe flying birds with it around 30 yards.
                  They are utilitarian and cheap and I mean real cheap. Its the Hi point of the singleshot world but I got mine to shoot snakes with.
                  For snakes I usually have my .22mag loaded with rat shot.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Interesting. 20 yards would be more than sufficient. Doesn't address longer shots with 45lc though.

                    I used the term 28 guage...but I guess the concept could have any bore big enough to not let the 45lc touch it. Add just add a little extra if you wanted a choke. After all, most 410/45 already have the wad going through the 45lc sized bore.

                    .452+.040 for extra full choke + .010 for extra clearance = .502

                    Im not for or against...just pondering thoughts.

                    Thanks for the input yall.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by jeremy360 View Post
                      Interesting. 20 yards would be more than sufficient. Doesn't address longer shots with 45lc though.

                      I used the term 28 guage...but I guess the concept could have any bore big enough to not let the 45lc touch it. Add just add a little extra if you wanted a choke. After all, most 410/45 already have the wad going through the 45lc sized bore.

                      .452+.040 for extra full choke + .010 for extra clearance = .502

                      Im not for or against...just pondering thoughts.

                      Thanks for the input yall.
                      Would not work because the wad would not engage the straight rifling.

                      A "screw on" muzzle device that would use a forcing cone and a constriction to .410 or tighter might work.

                      Take it on and off..

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by jeremy360 View Post
                        RJH, if the pattern is decent out of the pistol with no barrel, wouldn't a barrel help (some)? I dont really see a doughnut pattern now. Not sure if its because the 4 5/8" rifling is only a short amount or what. I definitely see it out of a bond derringer and out of a taurus judge. 7ft range and the pattern is awful.

                        Wonder if the design could have some small straight rifling as well down the smooth bore portion.
                        The shorter barrels do tend to to work better, but are still going to through a doughnuts pattern at distance (15 or so yards). There is really no way to shoot bullets out of a smooth bore or shot out of rifled barrels with much hope of accuracy. The straight rifled choke tubes or rifled slugs are about the best you can hope for in a combo barrel, but that is about it.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I aint no gunsmith or bullit guru but I believe you want to constrict shotshells at their departure from the barrel to give the best pattern possible.

                          As far as that 22mag shotshell........ about 2or 3 weeks ago, I had to lay on my belly and shoot one that was 4 and a half feet long under a trailer. I want them dead and hopefully in two pieces with one shot.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Outbreaker, I use the 45lc with the loads as is. However, its not great for the longer 45lc
                            shots (read Im not great with longer shots on a pistol). We try to keep the frog population up and try to keep the snake population down in the ponds to help. Its nice having the extra range beyond what rat shot is good for. All this could be solved with the over under guns out there (minus bulkiness and only having one shot of each type). Just thought id throw this out and see what others thought. Even a .22 mag rifle could do a lot. Rat shot available, and good for ear holing. Could even go the other route of a 410 with slugs.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by jeremy360 View Post
                              Outbreaker, I use the 45lc with the loads as is. However, its not great for the longer 45lc
                              shots (read Im not great with longer shots on a pistol). We try to keep the frog population up and try to keep the snake population down in the ponds to help. Its nice having the extra range beyond what rat shot is good for. All this could be solved with the over under guns out there (minus bulkiness and only having one shot of each type). Just thought id throw this out and see what others thought. Even a .22 mag rifle could do a lot. Rat shot available, and good for ear holing. Could even go the other route of a 410 with slugs.
                              I have done what you are doing. 10/22 and lots of ammo. Killing unwanteds out of farm tanks.

                              Today I would go the same route......but now it would be suppressed.

                              Comment

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