Reply
Go Back   TexasBowhunter.com Community Discussion Forums > Topics > Equipment and Tuning
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-19-2018, 09:06 AM   #1
enewman
Ten Point
 
enewman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Odessa TX
Hunt In: Any where I can
Default reaction tuning

this is why I reaction tune and why I teach this method. this picture is from a person I know in Austria. he was testing some 300 spine arrows to see if he could use and what tip weight would spine correctly.


what you should notice is there is not any really side tears. this means is power stroke is set. so only high and low tears are what you should see. this picture us a prime example. when the arrow is showing to much bend (underspined) you have a high tear. when the arrow has the correct reaction its a bullet hole and when the arrow doesn't have enough bend (overspined) it starts into a low tear.


tuning arrows with reactions will give you a more forgiving set up.
Attached Images
 
enewman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-19-2018, 09:22 AM   #2
Briar Friar
Ten Point
 
Briar Friar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Texas
Hunt In: San Gabriel, Colorado and Rio Grande watersheds
Default

Cool. Looks like he chose 175gr...but couldve chose 200. How would you go about splittin that hair for a decision?...Walk back bareshafting?
Briar Friar is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-19-2018, 09:44 AM   #3
enewman
Ten Point
 
enewman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Odessa TX
Hunt In: Any where I can
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Briar Friar View Post
Cool. Looks like he chose 175gr...but couldve chose 200. How would you go about splittin that hair for a decision?...Walk back bareshafting?

he did this at 2 m. tomorrow he will do it at 10m.

for me I normally do this to check correct spine/reaction. but ill back up to around 20 yards once I find the two that are closest. like the 200 and 175. then I can look and see what I need to do to fix.

in this case being both are so close and if it stays that way at 20 yards then its just what tip weight you want.
enewman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-19-2018, 02:13 PM   #4
Stoof
Pope & Young
 
Stoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Souther Austin
Hunt In: Will work for hunts.
Default

Interesting.


-------------------------------
Violence never settles anything
-Genghis Kahn
Stoof is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-19-2018, 02:33 PM   #5
Briar Friar
Ten Point
 
Briar Friar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Texas
Hunt In: San Gabriel, Colorado and Rio Grande watersheds
Default

Nice. Im gonna swap tips on some 175s showing stiff...see how the 200s fly.

Id love to see how the 10m turns out.
Briar Friar is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-19-2018, 06:18 PM   #6
enewman
Ten Point
 
enewman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Odessa TX
Hunt In: Any where I can
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Briar Friar View Post
Nice. Im gonna swap tips on some 175s showing stiff...see how the 200s fly.

Id love to see how the 10m turns out.
me to. I'm betting it goes to crap haha but one of the weight should be close
enewman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-20-2018, 01:17 PM   #7
Briar Friar
Ten Point
 
Briar Friar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Texas
Hunt In: San Gabriel, Colorado and Rio Grande watersheds
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by enewman View Post
me to. I'm betting it goes to crap haha but one of the weight should be close


Im having a heck of a time paper tuning my recurve. I cant seem to get holes less than 3/4Ē-1Ē. Im wondering if its realistic to do so since the feather fletchings cause arrows to measure an inch wide.

Aside from tuning shafts for the 175gr heads...Im also tuning to 300gr heads now since the 340 Aftermaths dont seem to like anything else. Im tuning two sets. First group full length 31 7/8Ē long with 18gr aluminum inserts...good holes punched...650 gr ish. Second group cut to 30 3/4Ē with 75gr brass inserts...paper showing slightly weak...700 gr ish. Im gonna knock 25 gr off the brass inserts and see if that doesnt straighten them out.
Briar Friar is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-20-2018, 03:51 PM   #8
enewman
Ten Point
 
enewman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Odessa TX
Hunt In: Any where I can
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Briar Friar View Post


Im having a heck of a time paper tuning my recurve. I cant seem to get holes less than 3/4Ē-1Ē. Im wondering if its realistic to do so since the feather fletchings cause arrows to measure an inch wide.

Aside from tuning shafts for the 175gr heads...Im also tuning to 300gr heads now since the 340 Aftermaths dont seem to like anything else. Im tuning two sets. First group full length 31 7/8Ē long with 18gr aluminum inserts...good holes punched...650 gr ish. Second group cut to 30 3/4Ē with 75gr brass inserts...paper showing slightly weak...700 gr ish. Im gonna knock 25 gr off the brass inserts and see if that doesnt straighten them out.
so you are seeing a left tear for the recurve
enewman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-21-2018, 09:47 AM   #9
Briar Friar
Ten Point
 
Briar Friar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Texas
Hunt In: San Gabriel, Colorado and Rio Grande watersheds
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by enewman View Post
so you are seeing a left tear for the recurve
I keep seeing these U shaped tears. Im new to this tuning jive and not sure where to go with these. So I decided to strip a shaft and bareshaft...rather than knock off 25gr from the insert.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Briar Friar; 05-21-2018 at 09:53 AM.
Briar Friar is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-21-2018, 09:48 AM   #10
Briar Friar
Ten Point
 
Briar Friar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Texas
Hunt In: San Gabriel, Colorado and Rio Grande watersheds
Default

15yds shooting left handed
Attached Images
 
Briar Friar is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-21-2018, 09:51 AM   #11
Briar Friar
Ten Point
 
Briar Friar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Texas
Hunt In: San Gabriel, Colorado and Rio Grande watersheds
Default

20yds left handed...recurve. If I read the Easton tuning guide correctly...Im stiff and Ive gone too far and cut too much.

Who sells a shaft stretcher?
Attached Images
 
Briar Friar is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-21-2018, 11:21 AM   #12
enewman
Ten Point
 
enewman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Odessa TX
Hunt In: Any where I can
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Briar Friar View Post
20yds left handed...recurve. If I read the Easton tuning guide correctly...Im stiff and Ive gone too far and cut too much.

Who sells a shaft stretcher?
If your getting a to stiff reaction. It’s easy to test. Add more tip weight

I’m not a recurve shooter. Reactions are still reactions. But talking to people on the trad forum might be better. Again a reaction is still a reaction so if you are seeing a stiff reaction for a trad set up then you fix the same way. Add tip weight

Last edited by enewman; 05-21-2018 at 11:25 AM.
enewman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-21-2018, 04:06 PM   #13
Briar Friar
Ten Point
 
Briar Friar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Texas
Hunt In: San Gabriel, Colorado and Rio Grande watersheds
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by enewman View Post
If your getting a to stiff reaction. Itís easy to test. Add more tip weight

Iím not a recurve shooter. Reactions are still reactions. But talking to people on the trad forum might be better. Again a reaction is still a reaction so if you are seeing a stiff reaction for a trad set up then you fix the same way. Add tip weight
I think Im tapped out at 300gr point and 75gr insert. I dont really want to stuff stuff in the shaft for more weight...Ill scrap the shafts and start again at full length.
Briar Friar is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-21-2018, 05:12 PM   #14
enewman
Ten Point
 
enewman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Odessa TX
Hunt In: Any where I can
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Briar Friar View Post
I think Im tapped out at 300gr point and 75gr insert. I dont really want to stuff stuff in the shaft for more weight...Ill scrap the shafts and start again at full length.
enewman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-21-2018, 09:27 PM   #15
rocky
Pope & Young
 
rocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lake Fork
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by enewman View Post
this is why I reaction tune and why I teach this method. this picture is from a person I know in Austria. he was testing some 300 spine arrows to see if he could use and what tip weight would spine correctly.


what you should notice is there is not any really side tears. this means is power stroke is set. so only high and low tears are what you should see. this picture us a prime example. when the arrow is showing to much bend (underspined) you have a high tear. when the arrow has the correct reaction its a bullet hole and when the arrow doesn't have enough bend (overspined) it starts into a low tear.


tuning arrows with reactions will give you a more forgiving set up.
I guess I donít understand what you are trying to establish with this post. It is common knowledge that with a release fired compound bow, depending on cam systems, a higher paper tear indicates a weak arrow, and a low paper tear indicates a stiff arrow. Some cam systems are more forgiving of spine than others
rocky is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-21-2018, 09:43 PM   #16
enewman
Ten Point
 
enewman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Odessa TX
Hunt In: Any where I can
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
I guess I don’t understand what you are trying to establish with this post. It is common knowledge that with a release fired compound bow, depending on cam systems, a higher paper tear indicates a weak arrow, and a low paper tear indicates a stiff arrow. Some cam systems are more forgiving of spine than others
Rocky. This is not common knowledge at all. Most have no clue. And it’s about dynamic tuning.

But what you call common knowledge is only about 10% of the archery world. I help people all the time. And they all still think side tears are stiff weak.

But even if they don’t and they see things like this and see a high tear they want to move the rest or take cams out of sync. All they have done is make an incorrect arrow fly.

Again I have papers out there about dynamic reaction tuning. Nothing new for traditional shooters but it is for compound shooters.

Last edited by enewman; 05-21-2018 at 09:56 PM.
enewman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-23-2018, 08:46 PM   #17
rocky
Pope & Young
 
rocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lake Fork
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by enewman View Post
Rocky. This is not common knowledge at all. Most have no clue. And itís about dynamic tuning.

But what you call common knowledge is only about 10% of the archery world. I help people all the time. And they all still think side tears are stiff weak.

But even if they donít and they see things like this and see a high tear they want to move the rest or take cams out of sync. All they have done is make an incorrect arrow fly.

Again I have papers out there about dynamic reaction tuning. Nothing new for traditional shooters but it is for compound shooters.
For those of us that have been tuning bows for many years, it is common knowledge.
Tuning bows and arrows to shoot straight is not a complicated process. Itís not that hard to get a nock to follow a point. Itís not rocket science that papers have to be published to accomplish.
rocky is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-24-2018, 07:09 AM   #18
enewman
Ten Point
 
enewman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Odessa TX
Hunt In: Any where I can
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
For those of us that have been tuning bows for many years, it is common knowledge.
Tuning bows and arrows to shoot straight is not a complicated process. It’s not that hard to get a nock to follow a point. It’s not rocket science that papers have to be published to accomplish.
I’m sorry you have a problem with papers. I’ve got several and several I haven’t finished. But yet I get contacted all the time about them and people reading and thinking me.

On your comment on it’s not that hard. If that was true then there would be zero reason to step in your bow shop. You are not needed other then to buy equipment. Even then there is no reason as it can be bought on the internet.

This section of Texas bow hunter would not be needed to help people.

You do realize the people that due need help you just called stupid.


Now the rocket science part. Well I don’t think so either. But I was contacted by a guy on my spine papers and told me I would get very little response on them. It was to much information. Haha. I thought it was an easy read to understand. But I was wrong and he was right. Funny thing I’ve been saying on posting on archery talk for 2 years about that subject and had my *** handed to me. Now that I posted it in writing and with pictures they don’t want to comment. Haha.

I like posting with you Rocky. But I’m betting you might want to stay if my posts. As they will be to help people and to explain how things work. I do apologize that they are below you.

Eric

Last edited by enewman; 05-24-2018 at 07:48 AM.
enewman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-24-2018, 07:49 AM   #19
rocky
Pope & Young
 
rocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lake Fork
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by enewman View Post
Iím sorry you have a problem with papers. Iíve got several and several I havenít finished. But yet I get contacted all the time about them and people reading and thinking me.

On your comment on itís not that hard. If that was true then there would be zero reason to step in your bow shop. You are not needed other then to buy equipment. Even then there is no reason as it can be bought on the internet.

This section of Texas bow hunter would not be needed to help people.

You do realize the people that due need help you just called stupid.


Now the rocket science part. Well I donít think so either. But I was contacted by a guy on my spine papers and told my I would get very little response on them. It was to much information. Haha. I thought it was an easy read to understand. But I was wrong and he was right. Funny thing Iíve been saying on posting on archery talk for 2 years about that subject and had my *** handed to me. Now that I posted it in writing and with pictures they donít want to comment. Haha.

I like posting with you Rocky. But Iím betting you might want to stay if my posts. As they will be to help people and to explain how things work. I do apologize that they are below you.

Eric
In no way am I berating you, not do I think readers on this forum are stupid or below me. My point is that posts like this , although correct, makes the tuning process sound so complicated. I actually tried to save a guy a trip from Odessa to my shop by trying my best to contact you and see if you could get his bow back in order. His strings had stretched so bad that I had to time, shoot,time,shoot, time and shoot again. 3 hours to get through all the twisting I had to do to get the strings to settle. Some of your post make it appear that itís such. Complicated process that it goes over everybodyís head and that small shop owners like myself are not capable of tuning bows. I just want to keep this forum from turning onto one like AT, with one or two gurus telling everybody how things should be done. Iíll stay off yourís and othersís posts.
rocky is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-24-2018, 09:13 AM   #20
enewman
Ten Point
 
enewman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Odessa TX
Hunt In: Any where I can
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
In no way am I berating you, not do I think readers on this forum are stupid or below me. My point is that posts like this , although correct, makes the tuning process sound so complicated. I actually tried to save a guy a trip from Odessa to my shop by trying my best to contact you and see if you could get his bow back in order. His strings had stretched so bad that I had to time, shoot,time,shoot, time and shoot again. 3 hours to get through all the twisting I had to do to get the strings to settle. Some of your post make it appear that itís such. Complicated process that it goes over everybodyís head and that small shop owners like myself are not capable of tuning bows. I just want to keep this forum from turning onto one like AT, with one or two gurus telling everybody how things should be done. Iíll stay off yourís and othersís posts.
Rocky. There is no where in any of my writings is it difficult to tune. It is for teaching so myself and others can understand what is happening. Is it to deep for some yes and itís not deep enough for others.

No where have I EVER TO SOMEONE how things should be done. Itís all for teaching and showing and to help people to understand.

And I know Iím in the niche of things. Most of what I do is for efoc arrows and hunting only.

My spine papers are for people that want to learn to spine arrows and what to look for. This again is for the few. Most people will never touch a ram tester.

My cut and trim paper is to set an arrow dynamically.

Tip replacement method all though a tuning method is a method to see if the arrow is reacting correctly.

My power stroke paper is to show people what side tears means and how to fix.

Nock tuning paper is to show what and why. Most people that bare shaft tune and have problems donít think or realize most of the time nock tuning is required

My introduction paper is about arrow weight. And I use the 12 penetration factors from ashby as an instruction guild to build a hunting arrow.

Rocky you may be right This May not be the sight for this type of teaching. I donít know. Maybe itís time for me to move on. I think Iíve been here for around 10 years now.

I do apologize if I have offended you in any way.

Eric
enewman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-25-2018, 08:39 AM   #21
Rat
Ten Point
 
Rat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bertram
Default

No reason to leave enewman, you are doing good work here. We get to express our opinions on public forums and sometimes that comes off as sideways or contrary.

I think Rocky is just trying to say it isn't as complicated as you make it out to be. I think what he is missing is that not everyone has his level of experience and understanding.

Further, there are archery geeks out there, and here on TBH, that don't want to just know the how, but also the why; and you do a fine job of explaining the why.

Keep it up, the silent majority are really enjoying your work.
Rat is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-25-2018, 09:16 AM   #22
rocky
Pope & Young
 
rocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lake Fork
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat View Post
No reason to leave enewman, you are doing good work here. We get to express our opinions on public forums and sometimes that comes off as sideways or contrary.

I think Rocky is just trying to say it isn't as complicated as you make it out to be. I think what he is missing is that not everyone has his level of experience and understanding.

Further, there are archery geeks out there, and here on TBH, that don't want to just know the how, but also the why; and you do a fine job of explaining the why.

Keep it up, the silent majority are really enjoying your work.
👍 Thsnks Rat, I expressed my point too harshly and apologize to Eric if I offended him.
rocky is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-25-2018, 09:55 AM   #23
enewman
Ten Point
 
enewman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Odessa TX
Hunt In: Any where I can
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
👍 Thsnks Rat, I expressed my point too harshly and apologize to Eric if I offended him.
Iím good rocky.
enewman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-25-2018, 10:46 AM   #24
muddyfuzzy
Ten Point
 
muddyfuzzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: gulf coast
Hunt In: Angelina County, Limpopo SA
Default

Itís going to be okay guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
muddyfuzzy is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-25-2018, 10:59 AM   #25
Gunnyart
Pope & Young
 
Gunnyart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Mansfield, TX
Hunt In: Gouldbusk, TX
Default

I'm just starting the EFOC journey and found it informative.
Gunnyart is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-25-2018, 03:34 PM   #26
Rat
Ten Point
 
Rat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bertram
Default

I think we should all meet in Brownwood and have a beer, fling some arrows and talk archery!
Rat is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-25-2018, 06:24 PM   #27
enewman
Ten Point
 
enewman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Odessa TX
Hunt In: Any where I can
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat View Post
I think we should all meet in Brownwood and have a beer, fling some arrows and talk archery!
Hell yes
enewman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 05-25-2018, 06:51 PM   #28
Stoof
Pope & Young
 
Stoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Souther Austin
Hunt In: Will work for hunts.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat View Post
I think we should all meet in Brownwood and have a beer, fling some arrows and talk archery!


Iíd be down.


-------------------------------
Violence never settles anything
-Genghis Kahn
Stoof is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1999-2012, TexasBowhunter.com