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Old 05-03-2018, 10:42 AM   #1
Big Ace
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Default FOC Skinny's or Not

So I went to the TAC San Antonio and broke 7 of my new arrows and lost 2. I am looking at building some high FOC arrows to try out. I have always been an Easton guy with either the FMJ's or the Axis, but I am not married to Easton. Help me build the perfect arrow. This arrow will be used primarily for hunting. It should be capable of taking Elk. I will most likely be shooting Iron Will, QAD Exxodous, or RMS Cutthroat broadheads. My previous arrows were Axis 260, 30.5 carbon to carbon, standard 16 grain insert, 125 head, 3 blaser vanes, 4" wrap, nocturnal x nock 20 grains. Terrible FOC and I cut them too long, but they flew and grouped great out to 95 yards.

My specs are:
Hoyt Defiant 34
70 lb limbs maxed out
29.5 draw length

What I am looking for in an arrow:
Strength and Rigidity
FOC
Micro Diameter ???
A minimum of .003 straightness
Lighted nock
The ability to clear my sight without fletching contact out to at least 100 yards
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Old 05-03-2018, 09:01 PM   #2
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not 100% complete. but its close enough for you to look at.
https://1drv.ms/b/s!AtVqxLy9AZcGhiQ5FgYP7v9AmbOh
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Old 05-03-2018, 09:12 PM   #3
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this is just looking at spine. don't worry about what shaft.
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Old 05-03-2018, 09:23 PM   #4
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So would it be better (higher FOC) to put a 200 grain head with a standard insert or to do like the bottom example with 125 grain head with 100 grain insert?
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Old 05-03-2018, 09:29 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ace View Post
So would it be better (higher FOC) to put a 200 grain head with a standard insert or to do like the bottom example with 125 grain head with 100 grain insert?
all depends on what you want. if you have your eye on a good 100 to 125 gr head then look at a 100 gr. inserts ethic archery makes great inserts. look at the static ones. i do not recommend there spinning inserts.
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Old 05-05-2018, 07:13 PM   #6
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enewman, I enjoy reading your post on arrow build and it raises a question for me. I’m settingup an Elite Synergy with 29” draw and 65# limbs. Plan on shooting it at max poundage. I have Axis 300 match grade arrows uncut and some 100 grain static Ethics inserts with 100 grain broadheads using 7” vinyl wraps and 3 Blazers. What length on arrow end of carbon to throat of nock and how much of the 100 grain inserts would you recommend? I want heavy arrows with optimal FOC and not worried about speed. Thanks in advance for any advice and recommendations.
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Old 05-05-2018, 07:33 PM   #7
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I’m going to recommend what I shoot.
Victory RIP elite, 300 spine, with 60 grain stainless shock half out. Cut them to 28” for your draw length, and 4 fletch with blazers. You will be right at 435-440 grains with 15% FOC.
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Old 05-05-2018, 07:38 PM   #8
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here is just a look at things. this will not be exact. its just for a reference. but you got some growing room. you could add even more tip weight and even cut arrow a little. and then add even more tip weight. personally I think 550 is a good weight. foc is low for what I do but there is nothing wrong with this at all. this would be a good taw arrow.
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Old 05-05-2018, 07:45 PM   #9
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here is a look at that victory rip
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Old 05-05-2018, 07:49 PM   #10
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here is what a blackeagle carnivore would look like. again just examples and ideals. any questions just ask

eric
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Old 05-05-2018, 08:40 PM   #11
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Thanks enewman and Ttechhunter!
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Old 05-05-2018, 08:52 PM   #12
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One more question. I just remembered I also have some uncut Axis 340 Camo shafts at 10.3 grains per inch. Would this be a better arrow to use at my poundage and draw length?
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Old 05-05-2018, 08:54 PM   #13
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Black Eagle Carnivores! I shoot a 70# Obsession Def Con 6 at 29" with a 28" .250 spine with 150 grains rear insert weights and a 100 grain head that is 595 grains with 19%+ FOC. A hard hitter with forgiveness, accuracy and quietness. Just my 2 cents!
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trophy_seeker View Post
One more question. I just remembered I also have some uncut Axis 340 Camo shafts at 10.3 grains per inch. Would this be a better arrow to use at my poundage and draw length?
I would stay with the 300
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:32 PM   #15
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I would stay with the 300
OK. Thanks again
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslinger View Post
Black Eagle Carnivores! I shoot a 70# Obsession Def Con 6 at 29" with a 28" .250 spine with 150 grains rear insert weights and a 100 grain head that is 595 grains with 19%+ FOC. A hard hitter with forgiveness, accuracy and quietness. Just my 2 cents!
Thanks
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Old 05-06-2018, 10:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ace View Post
So I went to the TAC San Antonio and broke 7 of my new arrows and lost 2. I am looking at building some high FOC arrows to try out. I have always been an Easton guy with either the FMJ's or the Axis, but I am not married to Easton. Help me build the perfect arrow. This arrow will be used primarily for hunting. It should be capable of taking Elk. I will most likely be shooting Iron Will, QAD Exxodous, or RMS Cutthroat broadheads. My previous arrows were Axis 260, 30.5 carbon to carbon, standard 16 grain insert, 125 head, 3 blaser vanes, 4" wrap, nocturnal x nock 20 grains. Terrible FOC and I cut them too long, but they flew and grouped great out to 95 yards.

My specs are:
Hoyt Defiant 34
70 lb limbs maxed out
29.5 draw length

What I am looking for in an arrow:
Strength and Rigidity
FOC
Micro Diameter ???
A minimum of .003 straightness
Lighted nock
The ability to clear my sight without fletching contact out to at least 100 yards
The FMJ aside; since its in it own realm, most micro diameter arrows have an increased GPI to a comparable 18 or 19 series diameter shaft. That being said the are not normally used for efoc builds; however, these FOC percentages can be reached if one is okay with shooting a slightly heavier arrow with a broadhead with above average mass weight.

On my personals, I shoot a 26.000 AMO 300 Deep Impact which by my bow, draw weight and length is way over spined. I offset that running an additional 240 grains up front. Despite the shaft being heavy I'm still at 560 with 20% efoc.

Eric selected the Carnivore in the program because its better option for most looking to build high foc with a more conventional arrow weight. I shoot the heavy GPI micro because I want the extra mass weight, some others may not so shafting is a good way to manage overall weight while still hitting above average foc percentages.

Honestly for you I would drop to a 250 and load it up, but I'm a little biased on the subject. I think you would like it, I have a pretty large sample size of lethal outcomes to support these claims.....

Good luck, follow up and keep us posted.

Last edited by muddyfuzzy; 05-06-2018 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 05-07-2018, 07:53 AM   #18
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Eric, would I be better off going to a 125 grain head on the Axis which should increase my FOC or if I do should I cut the arrows to 28” or 28 1/2”? I could send these shafts back and exchange them for the Carnivores since I just recently purchased them and build the Carnivore version since I was originally thinking of staying around 500-520 grains on the arrow build. I also was wanting a higher FOC than the Axis ended up at in the original that you showed me.
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Old 05-07-2018, 10:01 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trophy_seeker View Post
Eric, would I be better off going to a 125 grain head on the Axis which should increase my FOC or if I do should I cut the arrows to 28” or 28 1/2”? I could send these shafts back and exchange them for the Carnivores since I just recently purchased them and build the Carnivore version since I was originally thinking of staying around 500-520 grains on the arrow build. I also was wanting a higher FOC than the Axis ended up at in the original that you showed me.
I don’t mind helping at all. And I will give you all the information I can and if I don’t know it I’ll go find it for you. But in the end I don’t want to tell you what arrow you should be shooting. The Easton axis are great arrows and the set I tested on my ram tester where great arrows. As far as blackeagle carnivores. Well I love them but like muddy I’m a little bias.

So with your 29 in draw you are a little limited.

When I build arrows I look at a few things first. If I’m welling to worry about a certain speed I want or I don’t care. Is there a weight I want to keep around or I don’t care and what foc do I want or if it don’t matter just as high as I can get with my other set points.

Now since you do have a weight you want to be in (500-520) let’s work from there. Now since you want that weight range I would look at the carnivores 300 with the 100 or 125 gr tip with a 100 gr insert. At 29 inches. This is a great weight arrow 500 with great foc.

You could even cut that arrow down to 28 inches and use a 150 gr broadhead. And still be around that 530 Mark. And foc should be around that 20% Mark.

Also muddy has been building and selling carnivores for a long time. He is also a good resource for information on carnivores.
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:56 AM   #20
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Thanks again and thanks to muddy for chiming in as well. I really appreciate yall’s time and input. When I ordered the Axis arrows I was thinking they would come in around the 510 range with a higher FOC so I just need to decide which one but you both have given me valuable info to work with.
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Old 05-08-2018, 06:47 AM   #21
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What would the software say with a rampage at 29", 3 blazers, 125 tip, 100 insert, and a 20 grain nock? Would this be too weak of spine?

Same bow as the 1st post.
Hoyt defiant 34
29.5 dl
70 lb limbs
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Old 05-08-2018, 10:09 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ace View Post
What would the software say with a rampage at 29", 3 blazers, 125 tip, 100 insert, and a 20 grain nock? Would this be too weak of spine?

Same bow as the 1st post.
Hoyt defiant 34
29.5 dl
70 lb limbs
you would need a 250 spine a 300 would have be in the weak side
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Old 05-08-2018, 10:19 PM   #23
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Dang it. The .250 spine is 2 GPI heavier. My arrow would be 567 grains and 14.8 FOC with the .250.
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Old 05-08-2018, 10:31 PM   #24
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I guess I could run the X impacts at 9.5 GPI at .250 spine.
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Old 05-09-2018, 07:13 AM   #25
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Quote:
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Dang it. The .250 spine is 2 GPI heavier. My arrow would be 567 grains and 14.8 FOC with the .250.
Look at the Spartan. The 18 series shaft is not all that much larger than micro and still uses a conventional insert system. They are slightly heavier than an equally spined Carnivore and weigh less than the Rampage and Deep Impacts which helps in the FOC building dept.

That being said the 567 at almost 15% would be a pretty lethal setup in it's own right, especially coupled with the correct broadhead.
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:51 PM   #26
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enewman and muddyfuzzy, finally got an arrow built. Sent the Axis back in exchange for the 300 Carnivore .001 (USPS lost the first dozen but the vendor sent another dozen and said we’ll work the details out later). Cut them to 29” and used the 100 grain stainless Ethics Archery insert, wrap and 3 Blazers and 125 grain broadhead. Came in at 509 grains and 19.66 FOC. Can’t wait to start flinging them. Thanks for all your input!
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Old 05-28-2018, 09:27 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trophy_seeker View Post
enewman and muddyfuzzy, finally got an arrow built. Sent the Axis back in exchange for the 300 Carnivore .001 (USPS lost the first dozen but the vendor sent another dozen and said weíll work the details out later). Cut them to 29Ē and used the 100 grain stainless Ethics Archery insert, wrap and 3 Blazers and 125 grain broadhead. Came in at 509 grains and 19.66 FOC. Canít wait to start flinging them. Thanks for all your input!
Nice weight and great foc.
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:24 PM   #28
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Those are great specs, typically one I will shoot for if customers donít have a mental restriction on mass weight. I think you will find this a very effective blend of weight and FOC. Coupled with the right head it will take any game in the world with the exception being THE BIG 5. Great work!


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Old 05-29-2018, 07:59 PM   #29
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I owe it all to you two. Y’all made it easy to decide on a good combo. Thanks so much.
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Old 06-02-2018, 06:52 AM   #30
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Howdy,
Occasional "poster" here. Anyhoo, Newman and I chatter a bunch, so maybe I'm legit?
Just started testing Black Eagle Stuff.
.300 spine Rampage and Spartan (.001's) I have bare shafted the following out of a 65# Xpedition Xcursion 6 @ 28"
.300 Spine - Both
151 insert and FP / BH up to 250 - Arrow weights up and over 700.
.250 Spine Both
165 Insert and FP - You can shoot anything.

I ain't trying to one up here. Your 100+125 Broadhead combination on a .300 should be a dart and behave!!! The adult broadheads you mentioned are fantastic options.

One last thing to all of us here. If you are hunting in Texas, feeders, etc. Fear not the heavy arrow. For 20-35 yard work, increased FOC and mass just means you're gonna start breaking bones. Dare I say, when you cross 700 grains, magic stuff starts happening.

RF - Out
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:50 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enewman View Post
this is just looking at spine. don't worry about what shaft.


What is these? I want to run some of my arrow setups though this.


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Old 06-07-2018, 05:51 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by jdunn6092 View Post
What is these? I want to run some of my arrow setups though this.


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Well I would help. But since windows did there up date a few weeks ago the program no longer works and I canít get it fixed.
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Old 06-08-2018, 07:10 AM   #33
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Well I would help. But since windows did there up date a few weeks ago the program no longer works and I canít get it fixed.
Man Archer's Expert should have an update for you, have you checked with them?
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Old 06-08-2018, 09:37 AM   #34
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Quote:
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Man Archer's Expert should have an update for you, have you checked with them?
It shows an err that my firewall is now blocking access. We have done everything possible and still nothing. They are saying itís all on my side not thereís
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:15 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enewman View Post
Well I would help. But since windows did there up date a few weeks ago the program no longer works and I canít get it fixed.


Well crap!!!


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Old 06-11-2018, 10:25 AM   #36
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The Archery Program Pro is still running like a champ, just sayin'.
http://www.thearcheryprogram.com/
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