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Old 03-25-2018, 01:32 PM   #1
MONSTERKEN
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Default Trad noob....sort of

Good afternoon gentlemen. I am a noob to the trad life. I've read just about every "beginners guide" posted above. I've read through a ton of the threads posted on here. I am a very avid compounds bow shooter as well. However, I have never "really" shot a traditional bow before. I have not purchased a bow yet, I have to wait until Fathers day as per my wife and daughter's. Also bc my birthday is very close to Fathers day I usually get one nice "combo" gift. This year I wanted a recurve, so I have to wait a bit yet.

So, I have been doing a lot of research on different bows. I want something "entry level." In case it just isn't for me. I keep coming back to the Samick Sage Takedown Recurve. I am a southpaw, so I'll have to order one through Cabelas. I am a fairy big dude, so I was thinking of going with a minimum 45# or jump straight to a 50#. I was thinking of replacing the string right off the bat, with what I don't know yet, and I was planning on running Black Eagle Vintage arrows. I know things can change but this is where I was going to start.

I am looking forward to this little new adventure. I intend to shoot everyday so I can try and hunt this fall with it, and if it doesn't work out this fall, then next year. Anyways, very good to meet you guys.

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Old 03-25-2018, 01:50 PM   #2
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I would look into a used bow over a sage, though you will get a ton of recommendations for the sage. # 45-50 I think is good for a man who does work for a living to start with and is plenty for deer, just remember that that is draw weight is length dependent, you will loose or gain a few pounds per inch depending on draw length. IDK about those arrows, but they are probably fine. Most people find going with 9-10 grains per pound works out good. With the internet finding a good used lefty bow should be no problem
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Old 03-25-2018, 02:28 PM   #3
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I will give you some food for thought you can do with it what you will. But go to some bigger 3d shoots and ask the guys turning in the scores towards the top what poundage they shoot. The vast majority are 40-45 at their draw length. These same guys consistently arrow deer and pigs etc with great success. 80% letoff makes compound poundage easy even at 70# recurves and longbows have an ever increasing draw weight. Can folks shoot 50-80 pound trad bows accurately sure some can but they are in the minority at least in my experience. In the end you will find what you enjoy and with a sage or journey bow you wont have a lot to lose if you dont like it. Get a new string and let us know what poundage you settle on before you buy arrows. Most pro shops know nothing about trad though they will profess to be experts at least in my opinion. We are lucky to have a good one here but not sure where you live. Enjoy the journey its a blast and will keep you humble for sure.


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Old 03-25-2018, 03:17 PM   #4
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I will give you some food for thought you can do with it what you will. But go to some bigger 3d shoots and ask the guys turning in the scores towards the top what poundage they shoot. The vast majority are 40-45 at their draw length. These same guys consistently arrow deer and pigs etc with great success. 80% letoff makes compound poundage easy even at 70# recurves and longbows have an ever increasing draw weight. Can folks shoot 50-80 pound trad bows accurately sure some can but they are in the minority at least in my experience. In the end you will find what you enjoy and with a sage or journey bow you wont have a lot to lose if you dont like it. Get a new string and let us know what poundage you settle on before you buy arrows. Most pro shops know nothing about trad though they will profess to be experts at least in my opinion. We are lucky to have a good one here but not sure where you live. Enjoy the journey its a blast and will keep you humble for sure.


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Interestingly enough, some of the best shooters I know (at matches too) shoot 50-60 pounds. I just bought a howatt Coronado that I feel is better that a sage or journey for $65, it is a righty however. I do agree about the proshops not knowing much though.

OP at least look for some used bows, for a few dollars more than a samick, you can find a considerably better bow. I am not trying to knock the samick, but they are not the equal of other bows and you never seem to see any one move up to a samick, only up from one. I am also not saying go out and spend 300+ on a bow either, with a little effort you will be able to find a quality used bow for 150-250, that you wont feel the need to upgrade from in a few months.

Also I defiantly agree about the arrows, once you find out the poundage, then look for the right spine/weight arrow and don't believe the charts when it comes to carbons off of trad bows, they will have you too stiff
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Old 03-25-2018, 03:33 PM   #5
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I think you Abilene guys are on steroids I mean look at rick barbee he cut his teeth on a 100# bow when he was 5.


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Old 03-25-2018, 03:35 PM   #6
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Too bad you aren't closer, I'm a lefty and have a bunch of bows you could try. Depending on your DL, a 45 lb bow may be closer to 50 if you draw past 28''. Personally I started with a Samick Sage and think it's a really good starter bow. With that said you can pick up used bows pretty cheap. It'd be good if you could make a 3D shoot and shoot a few different bows before you decide. I like the Black Eagle arrows too. Good luck!!
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Old 03-25-2018, 04:02 PM   #7
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I think you Abilene guys are on steroids I mean look at rick barbee he cut his teeth on a 100# bow when he was 5.


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Haha, There is a guy I have shot with named Delano (I probably butchered the spelling) and he is an outstanding shooter and draws 60 plus, I think he is from the metroplex.

I don't think I could get Ricks martin to half draw
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Old 03-25-2018, 04:08 PM   #8
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Compound wise I have a 29.5" draw length, but I know and understand that is completely different with recurve, I get that. That's the problem with being a lefty, I've been looking for awhile. Either I find one way out of my price range, or don't find one at all. Even looked through pawn shops. So I have just decided to order a Samick. I have a small 60 acre farm in East Texas that has quite a few Bois d' arc trees, and I have worked out a deal back home with a guy that makes his own recurves to build me one out of the Bois d' arc wood.

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Old 03-25-2018, 04:29 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by MONSTERKEN View Post
Compound wise I have a 29.5" draw length, but I know and understand that is completely different with recurve, I get that. That's the problem with being a lefty, I've been looking for awhile. Either I find one way out of my price range, or don't find one at all. Even looked through pawn shops. So I have just decided to order a Samick. I have a small 60 acre farm in East Texas that has quite a few Bois d' arc trees, and I have worked out a deal back home with a guy that makes his own recurves to build me one out of the Bois d' arc wood.

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Place a want to buy on Stickbow and archery talk. Your draw length wont always change like you think, I shoot 29 with a compound and 29.5 - 30 with a trad bow, I guess cause I lose the length of the release. I would suggest 40-45 pounds at 28 (that should put you 43-48 @29) and a 60" bow minimum 62" would be even better, whatever bow you go with. Good luck and have fun
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Old 03-25-2018, 06:11 PM   #10
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I would go with the lighter bow to start. Nice thing about the Samick is you can buy heavier limbs cheap. If you decide that it's something you stick with then watch the classified on Stickbow and you can pick up a nice custom bow for a lot less than new.


Good luck in your adventure.
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Old 03-25-2018, 06:19 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by MONSTERKEN View Post
Compound wise I have a 29.5" draw length, but I know and understand that is completely different with recurve, I get that. That's the problem with being a lefty, I've been looking for awhile. Either I find one way out of my price range, or don't find one at all. Even looked through pawn shops. So I have just decided to order a Samick. I have a small 60 acre farm in East Texas that has quite a few Bois d' arc trees, and I have worked out a deal back home with a guy that makes his own recurves to build me one out of the Bois d' arc wood.

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Where at in East Tx? I'm in Crockett. If you want to shoot a couple of my bows next time you're in the area just let me know.
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Old 03-25-2018, 06:46 PM   #12
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I was in a similar boat. I started with 50 and went to 40 as the draw was totally different and i wanted to work on being good rather than how much i can pull. If you do get a lighter sage or a used one, I can give you the 50# as I'm content with the 40# limbs for practicing now.
I did get a fast flight string off 3rivers, but the biggest thing will be shooting arrows that fit your bow well. I got a used sammick sage for 80$ off ebay, then the string, arrows and nocking points and stringer for about $60. i spent more time figuring out the best option for arrows than I did on everything else.
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Old 03-25-2018, 09:12 PM   #13
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Every time I find a bow I like for a great price, I look closer and it is LH. Check out RWS, leatherwall classifieds.
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Old 03-27-2018, 08:07 AM   #14
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Is anyone familiar with the October Mountain Products recurve? A good friend told about them to check out. Looks like a competitor of the Samick Sage?

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Old 03-27-2018, 08:33 AM   #15
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They are made by the same company just rebranded the limbs interchange and the risers are identical


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Old 03-27-2018, 08:36 AM   #16
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I remembered this thread and on archery talk there were several lefties in the 40-45 range and priced very reasonable
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Old 03-27-2018, 08:44 AM   #17
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I remembered this thread and on archery talk there were several lefties in the 40-45 range and priced very reasonable
I am not a fan of archery talk anymore. My phone was always blowing up with notifications from archery talk so I deleted my account. Also I don't like buying stuff sight unseen like that. Been burned a couple of times.

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Old 03-27-2018, 08:48 AM   #18
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A samick sage is a 62” bow. They are great for starting out. I have lots of bows but i still shoot my samick 64” journey regularly. I like the journey better at my 29” draw, but the 64” journey is harder to find now. Another option is a samick polaris for $125 from Lancaster archery. You can get up to 40# limbs on a 66” bow with the polaris. This will be much more fun to shoot if you have a 30” draw. The limbs on the sage will fit a polaris riser, so if you get a sage and you feel it stacks too much at your draw you could get a polaris riser later.

If i were you, I’d start with a 66” 30#/@28 polaris from lancaster archery and shoot the heck out of it.
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:20 PM   #19
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Myself and others honestly don't know your budget when it comes to stuff like this. I am a proponent of the samick sage because relatively speaking, it is cheap, but yet a good shooting bow. By cheap, I mean you get a brand new, ready to shoot bow, that can take a new fast flight string for about $160 +/-. You can definitely find some used "nicer" bows in that price range, but you will have to buy used and really know what to look for. Lots of used bows have cracks that could be cosmetic, but could be worse. You could spend $400 on a bow that you will absolutely love and not have to buy another bow... but you have no clue going into it.

I have sold 2 samicks, and they both sold within a day of posting it. They go that fast. Being a lefty means it might take a few days more...

I still own a samick, I have my bow fishing reel on it. I bought a second as a backup/camp bow. I now shoot a $1200 bow and I am very hesitant to just buy any bow with the idea of selling it and trying to find another one... just not my thing.

BTW, folks have killed deer and hogs, etc with their sages on this site every year. They ain't pretty, but they are no less shooters than most other bows.

On draw weight, I'd start off lighter. In fact, I'd say buy a #40 or #35 bow... you'll thank me later. Then, decide from there if you want to sell it for something else, or just pay $75 for a set of #45 or #50 limbs.

Custom bows are great... buying and selling used bows can be fun... but when you are starting out, there is a lot to learn and there is nothing wrong with a good intro bow.
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:09 PM   #20
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Hey MONSTERKEN - I have a 40# left-handed Sage gathering dust in my closet. I bought it for my son years ago - he moved out-of-state and didn't take it with him. If we can figure a way to get it to you, you are welcome to try it out for a few weeks to see if you like it before you buy one. Only problem is I don't have any arrows built for it.

John
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:42 PM   #21
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I started with a Sage. Inexpensive and adequate. Good if you aren't sure if trad is gonna work for you and don't want to over invest.

However I sold mine within 6 months and had moved up to a name brand used bow that was better for what I wanted.

I can see both sides.

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Old 03-27-2018, 05:06 PM   #22
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Hey MONSTERKEN - I have a 40# left-handed Sage gathering dust in my closet. I bought it for my son years ago - he moved out-of-state and didn't take it with him. If we can figure a way to get it to you, you are welcome to try it out for a few weeks to see if you like it before you buy one. Only problem is I don't have any arrows built for it.

John
This^^^^^^ is the kind of things that make TBH great!!

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Old 03-27-2018, 05:54 PM   #23
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This^^^^^^ is the kind of things that make TBH great!!

Bisch
X2

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Old 03-28-2018, 03:50 AM   #24
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Hey MONSTERKEN - I have a 40# left-handed Sage gathering dust in my closet. I bought it for my son years ago - he moved out-of-state and didn't take it with him. If we can figure a way to get it to you, you are welcome to try it out for a few weeks to see if you like it before you buy one. Only problem is I don't have any arrows built for it.

John
Great gesture Mr John! These guys are top notch here. I highly recommend going to a 3D shoot and just ask questions. There will be plenty people ready and willing to help. Also the guys that are asking you to start out at a lower poundage are the guys just like me who thought they could easily handle more when we started out and quickly realized we needed to drop weight to get the shot sequence and form part down. Best of luck!
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Old 03-28-2018, 06:54 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by jerp View Post
Hey MONSTERKEN - I have a 40# left-handed Sage gathering dust in my closet. I bought it for my son years ago - he moved out-of-state and didn't take it with him. If we can figure a way to get it to you, you are welcome to try it out for a few weeks to see if you like it before you buy one. Only problem is I don't have any arrows built for it.

John
Pm sent

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Old 03-28-2018, 06:59 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampRabbit View Post
Myself and others honestly don't know your budget when it comes to stuff like this. I am a proponent of the samick sage because relatively speaking, it is cheap, but yet a good shooting bow. By cheap, I mean you get a brand new, ready to shoot bow, that can take a new fast flight string for about $160 +/-. You can definitely find some used "nicer" bows in that price range, but you will have to buy used and really know what to look for. Lots of used bows have cracks that could be cosmetic, but could be worse. You could spend $400 on a bow that you will absolutely love and not have to buy another bow... but you have no clue going into it.

I have sold 2 samicks, and they both sold within a day of posting it. They go that fast. Being a lefty means it might take a few days more...

I still own a samick, I have my bow fishing reel on it. I bought a second as a backup/camp bow. I now shoot a $1200 bow and I am very hesitant to just buy any bow with the idea of selling it and trying to find another one... just not my thing.

BTW, folks have killed deer and hogs, etc with their sages on this site every year. They ain't pretty, but they are no less shooters than most other bows.

On draw weight, I'd start off lighter. In fact, I'd say buy a #40 or #35 bow... you'll thank me later. Then, decide from there if you want to sell it for something else, or just pay $75 for a set of #45 or #50 limbs.

Custom bows are great... buying and selling used bows can be fun... but when you are starting out, there is a lot to learn and there is nothing wrong with a good intro bow.
So bc I don't know, I am going to ask. What is the difference between say a 62" bow from a 64", or a 66"? I am assuming it'll affect the draw weight??

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Old 03-28-2018, 07:03 AM   #27
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ttt
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Old 03-28-2018, 07:08 AM   #28
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So bc I don't know, I am going to ask. What is the difference between say a 62" bow from a 64", or a 66"? I am assuming it'll affect the draw weight??

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It doesnt affect your draw weight. The draw weight on the bow is the draw weight on the bow.

It has more to do with performance, feel and forgiveness. Longbows tend to need to be longer than a recurve. This is why for a factory bow, recurves are 62 and longbows 66.

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Old 03-28-2018, 07:13 AM   #29
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Quote:
What is the difference between say a 62" bow from a 64", or a 66"? I am assuming it'll affect the draw weight??
Generally, longer bows are smoother drawing for guys with longer draw-lengths and for some folks longer bows are easier to shoot accurately. (ie. more stable) I shot/shoot best with 62-66" recurves. For a new trad shooter I would recommend a 62-64" bow if you can get one.

FYI. It has been over 20 years since I lived in Plano, TX but when I was there some of the best trad shooters in the state were regulars at the Collin County monthly shoots. Hanging out with those guys really helped me out when I was a new trad shooter.
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:40 AM   #30
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Generally, a longer bow is a little more forgiving, and as such, sometimes easier to learn with. Really short bows tend to be a lot more dependent on solid form, and as such, are probably not the best to try to learn on.

Unless your draw length is crazy long, a bow in the 60-64 range should work just fine.

Bisch


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Old 03-28-2018, 11:23 AM   #31
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So bc I don't know, I am going to ask. What is the difference between say a 62" bow from a 64", or a 66"? I am assuming it'll affect the draw weight??

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I have a longer draw. Shorter bows tend to stack on me past 28. A longer bow the poundage goes up gradually past 28. Shorter ones the weight increases way quicker. Or at least it feels like it
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Old 03-28-2018, 11:33 AM   #32
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I have a longer draw. Shorter bows tend to stack on me past 28. A longer bow the poundage goes up gradually past 28. Shorter ones the weight increases way quicker. Or at least it feels like it
What does that mean, "stack on me?"

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Old 03-28-2018, 11:40 AM   #33
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The weight increases faster per inch of draw.

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Old 03-28-2018, 11:48 AM   #34
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What does that mean, "stack on me?"

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I'm sure you have seen draw curves for a compound. stick bows have draw curves too. As you get past certain draw lengths, the poundage increases rapidly rather than a smooth progression. Stacking is when you feel that obvious increase in draw weight quickly at the back end of your draw.

Typically, the shorter the bow limbs, the more it will stack past a certain draw length. I don't remember the number, but there is a rule of thumb that your limb lengths should be a certain percentage of your draw length. A bowyer will recommend a certain bow length for your draw length because of stacking.

I have a 58" bow. I was thinking of going to 56" but the bowyer said I'd be more happy at 58" for my draw length (27") and his design... so that is what I did.
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Old 03-28-2018, 03:01 PM   #35
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Can you guys school me on arrow set up? I haven't had my draw length measured yet, but this is the setup I am thinking about going with. I am a big proponent of heavy arrows, my compound hunting arrows are 635gr. So I'd like to run fairly heavy with a recurve as well. So with that being said, I'm thinking I'd like to run a 200gr field point or Broadhead, coupled with a 75gr brass insert. Also, with that being said, what would be a recommended fletching? I have everything I need to build my own arrows, arrow saw, jigs, spinner, etc, so playing/experimenting with arrows is not a problem.

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Old 03-28-2018, 03:10 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by MONSTERKEN View Post
Can you guys school me on arrow set up? I haven't had my draw length measured yet, but this is the setup I am thinking about going with. I am a big proponent of heavy arrows, my compound hunting arrows are 635gr. So I'd like to run fairly heavy with a recurve as well. So with that being said, I'm thinking I'd like to run a 200gr field point or Broadhead, coupled with a 75gr brass insert. Also, with that being said, what would be a recommended fletching? I have everything I need to build my own arrows, arrow saw, jigs, spinner, etc, so playing/experimenting with arrows is not a problem.

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Unlike center shot, device release, compounds, we use dynamic spine to adjust left/right hits due to deflection caused by finger release and off center shelves.

Dynamic spine is a combination of the draw weight at release, the spine of the arrow, tip weight, etc.

So as you can see it will be important to know your draw weight and draw length to help you find a ball park of where to start. Remember, draw weight for a given bow is a factor of you actual draw length.

Given you don't really know your draw length all that much, I would start with uncut arrows (about 31-32" depending on manufacturer) in a spine that is in the ball park given the broadhead weights you want to use. Once you get your draw length dialed in, you can cut arrows and play with weight, etc to bring it back to the dynamic spine you will need for your bow setup.

Fine tuning your arrows is pretty lengthy process BTW... and consistent form plays a big big... I mean BIG role in fine tuning, so don't try and jump to that off the bat.
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Old 03-28-2018, 03:18 PM   #37
jerp
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To select arrows, I would download the Stu Miller Dynamic Spine Calculator to get you started. You can play around with the variables until you get close as you can, and build just a few arrows (5-6) to those specs. I will tell you that trying to do arrow tuning before your form gets consistent is a frustrating exercise and likely futile. It is impossible to know what arrow flight is telling you eg: weak or stiff, if you're not drawing, anchoring, releasing the same way every time.

Last edited by jerp; 03-28-2018 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:52 AM   #38
stickbowcoop
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If you haven't already watch "The Push - A Traditional Archery Film". Some good info in that, especially for beginners. Otherwise you have been given a lot of good information in this thread. Nothing much I can add without being redundant.
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:03 AM   #39
MONSTERKEN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickbowcoop View Post
If you haven't already watch "The Push - A Traditional Archery Film". Some good info in that, especially for beginners. Otherwise you have been given a lot of good information in this thread. Nothing much I can add without being redundant.
Haha, I've been ALL OVER YouTube looking at videos. I'm a YouTube archery video junkie!!!

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Old 03-29-2018, 12:11 PM   #40
BillDecker
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Your in McKinney
Find Glen Bryant, he lives there and is a lefty.
Not a bad shot, and bet he would be willing to answer any ? you have.
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:09 PM   #41
robert13t
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I know you said you don't like sight unseen but I'll vouch for stickbow website and the guys on it. There is a Bob Lee bow that won't disappoint I assure you. The price is good too. 40-45# would be perfect to hunt and learn on. Check your pm.
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Old 04-21-2018, 09:43 AM   #42
ballgame
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If your place is anywhere near Chester you should consider going to the Stickbow 3D tournament the weekend of May 19th.
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Old 04-22-2018, 02:20 PM   #43
ptaylortx
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Check out RMSGrear.com for some good used bows.
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:46 PM   #44
MONSTERKEN
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Sorry guys, works been putting me through the grind as of late. Don't know whether I'm coming or going half the time. I have recieved LOTS of great info from y'all. THANKS!! So here's another question for ya, there are a couple of really nice lh bows on classifieds. One is a Stalker which I am familiar with as I listen to the Gritty Bowman podcast, and the Kifarucast podcast, the other is a Brackenberg (sp?). Both are over 50lbs draw weight at 28" and 29" respectively. Would that be WAAAAAAAY to much for a greenhorn rookie like myself?

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Old 04-23-2018, 08:11 PM   #45
Bisch
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Probably Brackenbury. Those are both real nice, high end bows (I have not seen the ads, just talking about the brands).

You said both were over 50#, but you did not say exactly what either of them are? Not knowing that, and not knowing your true draw length in a trad bow, its almost impossible to give any real advice as to whether they are too much for you to start with?????

Bisch


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Old 06-08-2018, 02:10 AM   #46
Hurricanebow
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I would look into buying used if I were you. I bought a used bob lee from a guy my buddy put me in touch with. I paid $275, and it is smooth, quiet and accurate. It has some marks on it from use, but man can it shoot. I also bought a used red wing hunter (a bob lee designed bow) for less than $150 off ebay. It was the first trad bow I bought, and it is a good one as well.
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