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Old 06-11-2019, 10:02 PM   #51
Crazy Horse
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Let it go brother...the drive by / passive aggressive comments are meant to get a rise. Anytime someone uses Santa or the Easter Bunny to compare faith in the same breath is working an angle to get under your skin.

Really doesn't matter, the dates they write on their checks or comment the date they were born, married or otherwise are all evolved around Christ's birth / death...there is nothing they can escape or call a fairytale about that fact. The birth / death of Christ and what we use for following history of time are encapsulated & fact you will forever have in your quiver.

How do you date history's timeline & what is it based on?? The birth / death of Christ...best fairy tale / selling book of all time & there is nothing anyone can say to diminish this particular fact. So many make fun & call it all a fairytale but yet STILL exchange CHRISTmas presents & celebrate with their family?? Why?? New years fireworks evolves around Him weather they want to acknowledge or not.

The rest is semantics to some degree or another...fact is the world's history and how we date it about His existence cannot be excused, so in THAT FACT, be filled with joy. You win!!
Amen...
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:07 PM   #52
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Once again, the atheists attack and insult the Christians and in response, the Christians pray for the atheist's well-being and salvation.

Funny how that works.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:18 PM   #53
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Paul, good words. It doesn't get under my skin at all... It actually causes a sadness in my heart... and for a host of reasons... none are perfect, not one... The experiences described in their posts are strong evidence of that and of fallen men who demonstrate their lack of a pure heart... If we Christians indeed lived for Christ, there would be a better chance of others "seeing" Christ in what we do and who we are... That is a great sadness to me. But under my skin, not even close... Heck, If I am dead wrong in my belief and they are 100% right, it's no big deal... I will have lived a peaceful and happy life and that will be the end of it... If however I'm even close to right, and they are wrong, it won't end so well for them...
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:04 PM   #54
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So let me get this “straight” you have an invisible friend and he does magic tricks,,, so the rest of the world should live by YOUR standards? Wow how forgiving and Christian of you. And since you are perfect you can decide what is acceptable and what isn’t. This attitude is exactly why I despise religions of all sorts, because I have to live like you say. How about you live your life as a Muslim says I mean really that’s a god too!
I honestly thought you were talking about Santa Clause
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:07 AM   #55
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Once again, the atheists attack and insult the Christians and in response, the Christians pray for the atheist's well-being and salvation.

Funny how that works.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:47 AM   #56
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I did not try and attack or insult anyone, if I did I apologize. Forgive me. I was pointing out that Christianity is a belief system. But then again that is how I perceive it. Just as Saltwater perceives my heart as "not true", that's fine for him to hurl at me because I know otherwise.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:11 AM   #57
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Not the direction I was thinking was was going to go but ok.

So what do you do if you are born a man and you are attracted to other man and not woman by no fault of your own? You are automatically doomed to the eternal fires of hell from the moment you were born? Sorry but as a Christian I just can't agree with this.
Either is a chosen life style, so either is an option of free will, which God gave to all mankind... one is right one is wrong. Morals can not be set by man, God set them. What is moral can not be changed, violated yes, but changed no.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:01 PM   #58
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So let me get this “straight” you have an invisible friend and he does magic tricks,,, so the rest of the world should live by YOUR standards? Wow how forgiving and Christian of you. And since you are perfect you can decide what is acceptable and what isn’t. This attitude is exactly why I despise religions of all sorts, because I have to live like you say. How about you live your life as a Muslim says I mean really that’s a god too!
how would you even know what a Christian is or should be since you are a hater ,,, fyi Christianity is not a religion,,, Religion, all of them were created by man by the design of satan,,, who it appears you have a close relationship with, but are not intelligent enough to even know it. Also would you bother pointing out were he said it was his created standard?

I do not blame you for despising religions because i also despise them,,, because religion is not Gods design, it is satans,,,which is why there are so many, so people who can not stand the actual truth can feel good about them selves by playing church and pretending they accept Christ, but in the end it is worthless and a waist of time,, religions all take a bit of truth but twist it to fit them, and the founders ideas , just like jim jones or david koresh did and many others....

You see religion by design sets itself between God and man,,, and sets standards by which you have to go through a man to reach God,, Christianity, or faith in Christ does not follow that falsehood,,, Christ the son of God came to be a bridge between man and God so that all who believe and accept Jesus as savior , might attain Heaven and be with God, no religion can do that, no religion will ever get a man to Heaven,, only Christ has that ability....

No, Christians are not perfect,, never will be until we are in Heaven. We are just forgiven and trying to do right by Gods standard not yours,,, wait isn't that the very thing you just accused the other poster of doing? Why yes it is, he does not meet your standard of lifestyle! Your offended because you know your wrong but do not want to accept it, so instead you lash out because you do know the truth !!

Since you are still alive you have the opportunity as everyone else does, to seek forgiveness... but you have to accept and believe in Someone and something you can not see or touch,,, for now,,,

Last edited by xman59; 06-12-2019 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:47 PM   #59
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Heck, If I am dead wrong in my belief and they are 100% right, it's no big deal... I will have lived a peaceful and happy life and that will be the end of it... If however I'm even close to right, and they are wrong, it won't end so well for them...
Actually...

Now, I'm not really interested in the religious arguments here, but since you're making a logical argument, I figured I'd chime in.

You're making the same argument as Pascal (referred to as Pascal's wager). The problem is it ignores the fact that there are 4200 religions in the world, and assuming there is one true religion and all have an equal chance of being it, your statistical chance of avoiding the wrong hell is very low (.023%), which is statistically insignificant from not picking a religion (0%). So it could still be a big deal if you're wrong, statistically speaking that is.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:11 PM   #60
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Actually...

Now, I'm not really interested in the religious arguments here, but since you're making a logical argument, I figured I'd chime in.

You're making the same argument as Pascal (referred to as Pascal's wager). The problem is it ignores the fact that there are 4200 religions in the world, and assuming there is one true religion and all have an equal chance of being it, your statistical chance of avoiding the wrong hell is very low (.023%), which is statistically insignificant from not picking a religion (0%). So it could still be a big deal if you're wrong, statistically speaking that is.
LOL

Have you studied some of these "religions"? I understand you non-believers like to think it's just opinions and that all religions are crazy, non-logical etc.. But most are very different. Some are plain stupid.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:32 PM   #61
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These 2 things I strongly disagree with being a lifelong catholic. Some of these comments definitely help me to understand people's frustrations with the bible thumpers. thanks Obama

1. People attracted to the same sex are bad and will go to hell

2. The other thing was an honest question I asked on TBH. I simply asked what would happen to a person who grew up in a non christian area of the world and was never introduced to Christianity. He/she was a stuart of their community and spent their whole life taking care of the less fortunate, sick and dying. What happens to this person once they pass on? The TBH'ers response's were literally that he/she would burn in hell. That was also something I can not agree with them on.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:18 PM   #62
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LOL

Have you studied some of these "religions"? I understand you non-believers like to think it's just opinions and that all religions are crazy, non-logical etc.. But most are very different. Some are plain stupid.
I never made any sweeping indictments of religions in this thread. I merely pointed out that the argument that wagering on one religion over none is a good bet, is in fact, not a good argument, from a logical standpoint.

And yes, I've studied a good number of religions. There's many variances, similarities, and some that are way out there, but the one thing all religions seem to have in common is that the adherents dismiss all other religions as false with such surety. They KNOW, for a fact, that their religion is the correct one and all others are wrong.

You might assume I presume to KNOW that everyone else is wrong, and that I surely know there is no higher power. But I'm not omniscient, and therefore cannot make such an argument. I merely find the arguments from the religions I've studied to be uncompelling, the evidence lacking, or the dogma to be abhorrent.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:52 PM   #63
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These 2 things I strongly disagree with being a lifelong catholic. Some of these comments definitely help me to understand people's frustrations with the bible thumpers. thanks Obama

1. People attracted to the same sex are bad and will go to hell

2. The other thing was an honest question I asked on TBH. I simply asked what would happen to a person who grew up in a non christian area of the world and was never introduced to Christianity. He/she was a stuart of their community and spent their whole life taking care of the less fortunate, sick and dying. What happens to this person once they pass on? The TBH'ers response's were literally that he/she would burn in hell. That was also something I can not agree with them on.
1. "People" are NOT BAD. It is their sin that is bad and condemns them. It is completely up to everyone to make the choice as to whether they will acknowledge the God that created them and accept forgiveness for their sins. I'm not really a verse-quoter (but I can if need be). I believe in speaking to people in plain language that is current today... God's Word is without change and will never perish. It is up to each one of us as to whether we are willing to believe through faith and accept the Grace of God His forgiveness through His only Son, Jesus Christ.

2. People who have never had the opportunity to be given God's Word are not automatically condemned. God himself told us that if there is no person to deliver His word, the very Mountains and rocks would cry out His testimony... That's what "nature" and wonders of the world are about and do daily... The scenario you posed is to me an example that very well illustrates this. Man, by nature is born in sin, and yet your example had a burden to do "what is right" and cared for his "brothers and sisters" in their hour of need... I believe that God will honor that, as it is their hearts He looks at. Doing works is NOT what gets anyone into Heaven, but a pure heart that is evidenced by the way they live their life is what God looks at and sees.

I don't know how to explain it any better than that. Hope it helps... Knowing God is not a religion, He is a real being and knowing him is a relationship. Knowing him has bearing on your very being, your character, your daily actions and guides how you live... God told the Israelites that it is better to follow the Word of God than to offer burnt sacrifices for NOT following His Word...
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:05 PM   #64
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1. "People" are NOT BAD. It is their sin that is bad and condemns them. It is completely up to everyone to make the choice as to whether they will acknowledge the God that created them and accept forgiveness for their sins. I'm not really a verse-quoter (but I can if need be). I believe in speaking to people in plain language that is current today... God's Word is without change and will never perish. It is up to each one of us as to whether we are willing to believe through faith and accept the Grace of God His forgiveness through His only Son, Jesus Christ.

2. People who have never had the opportunity to be given God's Word are not automatically condemned. God himself told us that if there is no person to deliver His word, the very Mountains and rocks would cry out His testimony... That's what "nature" and wonders of the world are about and do daily... The scenario you posed is to me an example that very well illustrates this. Man, by nature is born in sin, and yet your example had a burden to do "what is right" and cared for his "brothers and sisters" in their hour of need... I believe that God will honor that, as it is their hearts He looks at. Doing works is NOT what gets anyone into Heaven, but a pure heart that is evidenced by the way they live their life is what God looks at and sees.

I don't know how to explain it any better than that. Hope it helps... Knowing God is not a religion, He is a real being and knowing him is a relationship. Knowing him has bearing on your very being, your character, your daily actions and guides how you live... God told the Israelites that it is better to follow the Word of God than to offer burnt sacrifices for NOT following His Word...
well put sir!
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:58 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by SaltwaterSlick View Post
1. "People" are NOT BAD. It is their sin that is bad and condemns them. It is completely up to everyone to make the choice as to whether they will acknowledge the God that created them and accept forgiveness for their sins. I'm not really a verse-quoter (but I can if need be). I believe in speaking to people in plain language that is current today... God's Word is without change and will never perish. It is up to each one of us as to whether we are willing to believe through faith and accept the Grace of God His forgiveness through His only Son, Jesus Christ.

2. People who have never had the opportunity to be given God's Word are not automatically condemned. God himself told us that if there is no person to deliver His word, the very Mountains and rocks would cry out His testimony... That's what "nature" and wonders of the world are about and do daily... The scenario you posed is to me an example that very well illustrates this. Man, by nature is born in sin, and yet your example had a burden to do "what is right" and cared for his "brothers and sisters" in their hour of need... I believe that God will honor that, as it is their hearts He looks at. Doing works is NOT what gets anyone into Heaven, but a pure heart that is evidenced by the way they live their life is what God looks at and sees.

I don't know how to explain it any better than that. Hope it helps... Knowing God is not a religion, He is a real being and knowing him is a relationship. Knowing him has bearing on your very being, your character, your daily actions and guides how you live... God told the Israelites that it is better to follow the Word of God than to offer burnt sacrifices for NOT following His Word...
Very good
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:02 PM   #66
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Where there is no Law, sin is not imputed...NKJV I think...

Romans has some deep doctrine on the subject also...From the beginning of time God has been revealing His invisible attributes thru that which is created (that's my paraphrase)

If you believe the bible, no one will have the excuse of "I didn't know".....to add to that, Paul also says the offense pales in comparison to the Gift.

I only know this for certain....the sinner I see in the mirror everyday sure is thankful for Grace.
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:00 PM   #67
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Good conversation here. But since the op’s post has already changed direction how about another turn?

Regardless of how you feel about homosexuality, I want to know why someone’s identity must be so intensely wrapped around their sexual desires?

I’m attracted to/by... But that is not the center of my identity. If it were, we would need a lot more community labels. There would be the high heels turn me on community, the I like Asians community, the foreign accents are my thing community, the I like feet community, etc, etc, etc. I think that if the “lgbt community” would realize this, we would never have to deal with these issues about gender identity. People would see the gender identity issues the same way that they view people like that lady who was trying to be black: someone who wants to be something they’re not.

Maybe I’m oversimplifying things but I don’t understand the concept of being proud of what turns me on. I can understand a gay person’s belief that he doesn’t need to be ashamed but proud? I think that’s a little much.
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:18 PM   #68
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Good conversation here. But since the op’s post has already changed direction how about another turn?

Regardless of how you feel about homosexuality, I want to know why someone’s identity must be so intensely wrapped around their sexual desires?

I’m attracted to/by... But that is not the center of my identity. If it were, we would need a lot more community labels. There would be the high heels turn me on community, the I like Asians community, the foreign accents are my thing community, the I like feet community, etc, etc, etc. I think that if the “lgbt community” would realize this, we would never have to deal with these issues about gender identity. People would see the gender identity issues the same way that they view people like that lady who was trying to be black: someone who wants to be something they’re not.

Maybe I’m oversimplifying things but I don’t understand the concept of being proud of what turns me on. I can understand a gay person’s belief that he doesn’t need to be ashamed but proud? I think that’s a little much.
As I started reading this my daughter said she just read something about 15 things LBGTQ people don't get. Like access to public transportation and other stupid crap..

Makes no sense because if they just lived their life and shut the crap up the bus driver or employer would have no clue what gender they liked or wanted to be themselves.
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