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Old 01-15-2015, 08:27 PM   #501
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That a Zwickey head?

You heading out tonight?
No sir leaving in the morning

Yes that is a Zwickey delta. And I want be hunting with that arrow. That arrow can't handle that much weight or I have no idea what I'm doing.

But in flight that arrow looks like a bottle rocket with half the stick gone.
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:20 PM   #502
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Ok just finish an arrow to test. If it works out will build more for hunt Friday. Arrow is 25.5 ctc. 100 gn insert and 175 gn head. Arrow weight is 522 with 25% foc
Just scored a brand new box of three German Kinetic 185gr DS 1 7/8" cut. They are our there but like finding a needle in a haystack. So excited.
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:58 PM   #503
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Just scored a brand new box of three German Kinetic 185gr DS 1 7/8" cut. They are our there but like finding a needle in a haystack. So excited.
Nice. One of these day I'll get some. But I'll prolly just hang on the wall.
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Old 01-17-2015, 08:10 AM   #504
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You have two choices. Build a heavy slower arrow with the FOC you are looking for, or stay with a lower FOC on the arrow at the weight and speed you want...
Wish I would have started reading this thread, but now with 502 responses the info is way too much for my feeble brain to keep up with and comprehend. I understand the FOC talk, I thing I am about 10.6%.

I will ask a question(s) and hope no one condemns me for it. How do you build a heavier arrow or is it just ordering/using an arrow with a stiffer spine?

I have seen several utube videos of doing things like inserting nylon rope, salt, sand, plastic tube, weed eater line. But putting something inside the shaft, while making it heavier, wouldn't that change more than weight? What about the shifting of salt and sand?

People here are much wiser than me.
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Old 01-17-2015, 08:49 AM   #505
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A heavy arrow has nothing todo with spine. If a 400 spine is all you need them you look for an arrow with an higher gn per inch. Some people do add things inside arrows. Weight tubes is a good way but it will change the dynamic spine of that arrow. If your looking at building an heavier arrow. It's better to find an arrow with the correct spine and make the weight up on the tip. Giving you more foc
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Old 01-17-2015, 10:59 AM   #506
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Pardon me again enewman, if I am using a 330 spine now I should perhaps look for a different mfg that makes a 330 spine with heavier gpi? and then go for say a 125gr as opposed to a 100gr tip to boost overall weight? Is that correct? How much weight is enough? I don't want to launch a cinder block when a brick will do as good/better. I started thinking and looking at this KE vs. momentum and the momentum started making a lot of sense. Now I am rethinking, which could be dangerous. Some where there is a trade-off and I am guessing I will have to experiment.
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Old 01-17-2015, 12:23 PM   #507
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Pardon me again enewman, if I am using a 330 spine now I should perhaps look for a different mfg that makes a 330 spine with heavier gpi? and then go for say a 125gr as opposed to a 100gr tip to boost overall weight? Is that correct? How much weight is enough? I don't want to launch a cinder block when a brick will do as good/better. I started thinking and looking at this KE vs. momentum and the momentum started making a lot of sense. Now I am rethinking, which could be dangerous. Some where there is a trade-off and I am guessing I will have to experiment.


Shooting the lightest shaft possible while still staying within your proper spine is a great way to achieve higher FOC. I will use myself as an example. My previous arrow was a 350 deep impact that weighed 430 grains and had an FOC of close to 19%. That particular shaft has a GPI if 9.6. My new set up using the 300 x-impact weighs only ten grains more @ 440 but has an FOC of 22%+. I dropped to a stiffer arrow that had a lower GPI in regards to the shaft which allowed me to make up the weight in the tip. The deep impact used a 125 tip while the 300 X uses a 165.
T.A.P.
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Old 01-17-2015, 12:40 PM   #508
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Pardon me again enewman, if I am using a 330 spine now I should perhaps look for a different mfg that makes a 330 spine with heavier gpi? and then go for say a 125gr as opposed to a 100gr tip to boost overall weight? Is that correct? How much weight is enough? I don't want to launch a cinder block when a brick will do as good/better. I started thinking and looking at this KE vs. momentum and the momentum started making a lot of sense. Now I am rethinking, which could be dangerous. Some where there is a trade-off and I am guessing I will have to experiment.

Heavier GPI only affects the gross weight if the arrow. It can negatively affect FOC.

FOC is the percentage of gross weight forward of center.

There are several ways to increase FOC. Heavier broadheads, screw in weights, heavier inserts etc...

The bigger the number the weaker the spine.
i.e a 500 spine is weaker than a 330 spine.

To determine what spine u need there are several factors.
Draw weight, arrow length, tip weight, insert used, vanes, nock used...

How much FOC you want?

GoldTip has a arrow building calculator on there website.

My Bow is a Strother Moxie. Draw weight is 68# and my draw length is 31.5"

My arrows are Gold tip XT Hunters, 340 spine and are 29 1/8" long. They are 8.9 GPI and weigh 452 grains and 14.9% FOC.
I'm shooting 100 grain tips, standard insert and 50 grain screw in weights behind the inserts.
They group fine but am wishing I had 250 or 300 spine arrows.
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Old 01-17-2015, 05:51 PM   #509
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Getting good at arrow hunting ;-)
3 overall second in the last month
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:52 PM   #510
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http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2398849

Whats y'all's thoughts on these?
Pretty much exactly what I'm thinking of trying next.....
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:56 PM   #511
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http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2398849

Whats y'all's thoughts on these?
Pretty much exactly what I'm thinking of trying next.....
It looks good. But I would just check price with muddy for same set up and see what he has.
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:49 PM   #512
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http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2398849

Whats y'all's thoughts on these?
Pretty much exactly what I'm thinking of trying next.....

Id definetly get with muddy. I have those arrows, with brass inserts running 15.7 FOC custom made by muddy, and I paid 120 for a dozen if them. Per 6 is cheaper, and it's a brand new arrow set how you want.
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Old 01-20-2015, 08:26 PM   #513
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Getting good at arrow hunting ;-)
3 overall second in the last month
Shooting at 10 yards is cheating push !!
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Old 01-20-2015, 08:52 PM   #514
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That's just mean hoyt21. But I was thinking pushbutton just shoved them together my self. See he started on how he's 6'7". Now he's showing off on his shooting. Haha. Good shooting
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Old 01-20-2015, 09:31 PM   #515
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Push, what kind of bow do you shoot? How much weight? Didn't you want a long arrow?
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Old 01-20-2015, 09:37 PM   #516
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Shooting at 10 yards is cheating push !!

It was actually only 5 yards, my long draw took up the first 5 ;-)


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Originally Posted by enewman View Post
That's just mean hoyt21. But I was thinking pushbutton just shoved them together my self. See he started on how he's 6'7". Now he's showing off on his shooting.
Haha. Good shooting

My secrets out

Thank You! But I'd rather have pictures like enewman ;-)


I was actually practicing shooting the gap at 30 yards
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Old 01-20-2015, 09:44 PM   #517
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That's awesome push congrats I've had my nitrum turbo for two days and have been driving tacks !
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Old 01-21-2015, 01:24 PM   #518
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That's awesome push congrats I've had my nitrum turbo for two days and have been driving tacks !

:thumbup:
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Old 01-21-2015, 01:50 PM   #519
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Push, what kind of bow do you shoot? How much weight? Didn't you want a long arrow?

I just saw your reply Muddy, my sincerest apologies.

I'm shooting a 2012 Strother Moxie. It has the 65# limbs. I have them maxed. Scale says it's drawing 68#
My current arrows are cut to 29 1/8"
My DL is set at 31". The bow shop says that the Strothers run long on the Draw Length. My wingspan is 78" so that gives me about a 31.2" DL. Currently 80% let off.

My current arrows don't extend past the riser. My fear is cutting a finger if I go with a wife fixed blade like the Landshark or Silver Flame XXL..

My current arrows are GT XT Hunters 340 spine, I'm using standard GT nocks, 3 blazer vanes, 50 grain screw in weight, goat tuff glue, GT insert and 100 grain tip. Finished weight is 452 on the low end to 453.8 on the high.
My FOC is running 14.946%
My bow shot my heavy arrow 277.9 fps.

I have other arrows that i started shooting with.
They are Beman Bowhunters 340 Spine. Nothing added to them. They weigh in around 419 grains. I haven't individually weighed them.
Their FOC is 11.505%. The shoot 290 fps.

I have one other arrow. It's was a High FOC test arrow. It's a GT Expedition Hunter 340 spine. It's using the same components as my XT Hunters but it's using the GT Vanes which are .8 grains lighter than Blazers. The FOC on that one is 15.591%.
They all group good when I do my job correctly....

I'm thinking of switching to a 300 or 250 spine.
GT websites says my 340 is ok.
Bemans' says I'm on the bubble.

TMI?
I have a picture of my laptop screen with the spreadsheet I made for my arrows. If you want it. It's just the FOC measurements and one box automatically calculates FOC.
I have a more current version at home that can calculate ME and KE numbers...
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Old 01-21-2015, 10:54 PM   #520
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Anytime you're borderline, step up a spine.
29 1/8 inch arrows are long.
Remember, spine measurements for shafts are at 28 inches, and who knows how they spine at lengths longer.
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Old 01-21-2015, 11:40 PM   #521
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Push if you want a high FOC arrow I really think you might also be in a 250. A 300 will handle the draw weight you shoot and tip weight but you are getting pretty long. My Strother always liked a shaft a little on the stuff side, that badger cam starts up hard to make speed. Rocky brings up a great point on how the spine is calculate, so keep that in mind as well.
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:02 AM   #522
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This is why I have the ontarget program. I still test my arrows, but at least the program keeps me from buying the wrong arrow
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:37 AM   #523
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I have a copy of OT in my head !
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:45 AM   #524
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This is why I have the ontarget program. I still test my arrows, but at least the program keeps me from buying the wrong arrow


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I have a copy of OT in my head !

That's what I have you guys for
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:48 AM   #525
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Well I will tell you if muddy has that in his head. Stop listening to me. I'm going to use muddy from now on my self haha.

That means muddy I need an 24 hour number for you that is answerd by the third ring.
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:06 AM   #526
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Well I will tell you if muddy has that in his head. Stop listening to me. I'm going to use muddy from now on my self haha.

That means muddy I need an 24 hour number for you that is answerd by the third ring.
Lmao Chris is a good and will cut up up about bows, tuning, etc as long as u want
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:09 AM   #527
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Lmao Chris is a good and will cut up up about bows, tuning, etc as long as u want
Morning. That is way I like this site.
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:25 PM   #528
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It's coming up on 3D season. I might start shooting some...

I'm curious as to how that will effect/affect the formula for my perfect arrow.
I've been told that my current arrows will be hard to get out of the 3D targets :thumbup: I'm buying some arrow lube and a puller.


My bow shop ordered some 300 spine GT Pro Hunters in.
But I'm still leaning towards a 250 Black Eagle with 100 grains up front with a 100 grain head.

What says MY brain trust?
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:30 PM   #529
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I'd take then 250 black eagles any day over the gold tips !!!
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Old 01-28-2015, 03:30 PM   #530
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250's will work for you man!
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Old 01-28-2015, 03:39 PM   #531
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No doubt s good arrow will be tough to get out. My .300 carnivores are hard to get it, then if they find a weak spot they about go through! It's really w lose lose
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:27 PM   #532
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Well boys keeping this between us. I hope to be running a deep impact through this sucker. This is not high fenced. And in my home town. I cleared my week schedule.

Did you?
Please say YES
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:32 PM   #533
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Have we discussed indexing arrows?
It seems like we have...
I've perused back @ 80 replies or so....
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:36 PM   #534
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Did you?
Please say YES


No push he lived and will be chased next year we know he made it. I passed about a 140" 10 pt one morning hoping he would come out. He didn't lol
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:37 PM   #535
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Have we discussed indexing arrows?
It seems like we have...
I've perused back @ 80 replies or so....


I fletch them then shoot with broadheads and turn the nock till I get the arrow flying with field points. Then leave it alone.
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:52 PM   #536
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Have we discussed indexing arrows?
It seems like we have...
I've perused back @ 80 replies or so....

Shooting them through paper is a good way to do that. Index the nock until you get the smallest tear, repeat and so on. If I didn't have a three year old and a one year old it might be something I would do.
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:54 PM   #537
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No push he lived and will be chased next year we know he made it. I passed about a 140" 10 pt one morning hoping he would come out. He didn't lol

I'm sorry
But just think he should be bigger next year

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I fletch them then shoot with broadheads and turn the nock till I get the arrow flying with field points. Then leave it alone.

?
My understanding of WHY we should index is that is the stiffest side of the arrow...

My question stems from a conversation I had last weekend with a feller about indexing arrows and the benefits..

Do we want it on the top or bottom?
And why?
Or doesn't it matter?
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:58 PM   #538
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I'm sorry
But just think he should be bigger next year




?
My understanding of WHY we should index is that is the stiffest side of the arrow...

My question stems from a conversation I had last weekend with a feller about indexing arrows and the benefits..

Do we want it on the top or bottom?
And why?
Or doesn't it matter?


On the top I believe that's why it's your cock vane
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Old 01-28-2015, 07:15 PM   #539
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Shooting them through paper is a good way to do that. Index the nock until you get the smallest tear, repeat and so on. If I didn't have a three year old and a one year old it might be something I would do.
Get three arrows stand 6 feet and shoot through the paper. Rotate knoc till all three have same tare. Then start tuning. Bullet hole at 6 ft. Then back up 3 ft tune again. Then back up 3 ft tune again. Do this till you get to 10 yards. No reason after 10 yards Once done with them three with perfect holes get the rest of arrows. Shoot and tune knoc only. If there are any that will not shoot hole after knoc only adjustment. They go into coon pile.

Also when you shoot the first three. All of them need the same tare before tuning. If one will not tare the same. Coon pile.

If this is not done you will chase your tail.
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Old 01-28-2015, 07:21 PM   #540
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On the top I believe that's why it's your cock vane
Hehe.


What about me my cock vane is at 9 o clock.
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Old 01-28-2015, 07:44 PM   #541
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Hehe.


What about me my cock vane is at 9 o clock.


Is it cause of your short draw ? Jk
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Old 01-28-2015, 07:49 PM   #542
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Is it cause of your short draw ? Jk
You know I'm not short. Your just overly tall. And I don't know what push is.


And no. For me to get vane clearance on my bow requires the cock vane out.
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:30 PM   #543
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Get three arrows stand 6 feet and shoot through the paper. Rotate knoc till all three have same tare. Then start tuning. Bullet hole at 6 ft. Then back up 3 ft tune again. Then back up 3 ft tune again. Do this till you get to 10 yards. No reason after 10 yards Once done with them three with perfect holes get the rest of arrows. Shoot and tune knoc only. If there are any that will not shoot hole after knoc only adjustment. They go into coon pile.

Also when you shoot the first three. All of them need the same tare before tuning. If one will not tare the same. Coon pile.

If this is not done you will chase your tail.
I have to say this, because it is driving me crazy.
When you tear a piece of paper, it is spelled TEAR.
When you zero out a set of scales, it is called TARE.
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:30 PM   #544
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You know I'm not short. Your just overly tall. And I don't know what push is.


And no. For me to get vane clearance on my bow requires the cock vane out.
I had to shoot my old bear bow like that
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:41 PM   #545
muddyfuzzy
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Originally Posted by enewman View Post
you know i'm not short. Your just overly tall.

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Old 01-28-2015, 09:10 PM   #546
enewman
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Originally Posted by rocky View Post
I have to say this, because it is driving me crazy.
When you tear a piece of paper, it is spelled TEAR.
When you zero out a set of scales, it is called TARE.
Haha. Sorry rocky. I didn't even pay attiontion to it. Im a horrible speller. I try to catch my miss spelling, but I would not have got that one. I was teared up a little Plus I blame Siri. She should have cought that one for me
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:24 PM   #547
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So what's the deal stiff side up? How can we index with out shooting ?
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:32 PM   #548
enewman
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So what's the deal stiff side up? How can we index with out shooting ?
Spine tester

Soon as muddy gets my shafts to me I'm going to spine test for stiff side and see what happens
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:33 PM   #549
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Spine tester

Soon as muddy gets my shafts to me I'm going to spine test for stiff side and see what happens
In all honesty I'd need to sit down and watch u use one to know how
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:39 PM   #550
enewman
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In all honesty I'd need to sit down and watch u use one to know how
It's only about 8 hour drive. From you to me Come on. Haha
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