Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Draw length when shooting with d loop

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Draw length when shooting with d loop

    Would you set your draw length shorter when shooting with a loop or would you stay with true draw length?

    #2
    1/2" to an inch shorter

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by timw View Post
      Would you set your draw length shorter when shooting with a loop or would you stay with true draw length?
      Do you currently shoot without a loop? Fingers?

      Comment


        #4
        I just got my son a bow from a buddy. It has a loop on it and I just need to make sure I'm doing right for him.
        My bow is set up without a loop.

        Comment


          #5
          usually 1/2" shorter will do the trick

          Comment


            #6
            You probably shouldn't change your anchor point. Adjust the draw length to accommodate your anchor.

            Comment


              #7
              Keep the draw length the same; draw length never changes!

              The anchor point changes. Draw length is measured from the nock to the deepest part of the handle (for the sake of argument we will keep the AMMO and ATA math out of it for now); this measurement should never change. The nock should be positioned directly under the iris of the eye; no matter if you are shooting a release on the string, on a loop or fingers.

              When transitioning from fingers to a release the DL stays the same but the anchor changes; from the corner of the mouth to the back of the jaw bone, for example. The DL stays the same.

              Same thing when going from shooting a release off the string to shooting from a loop; we move the anchor backwards (maybe behind the ear) or we shorten the release to keep the same anchor point. In both cases the DL stays the same.

              Again, Draw Length is measured with the nock under the eye, this should never change, to the deepest part of the grip.

              Once a persons DL is known it will not change by much over their lifespan. It may change from bow to bow, because different manufacturers measure differently, but the ACTUAL measurement (on the body) will not change.

              DO NOT shorten the draw length to make a loop fit or to keep the anchor point; it is far easier to learn a new anchor point than it is to adjust the whole body to a draw length that is too short.

              Comment


                #8
                Well said. The d loop has nothing to do with draw length at all. All a d loop changes is where your hand rests at anchor not where the string goes

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Rat View Post
                  Keep the draw length the same; draw length never changes!

                  The anchor point changes. Draw length is measured from the nock to the deepest part of the handle (for the sake of argument we will keep the AMMO and ATA math out of it for now); this measurement should never change. The nock should be positioned directly under the iris of the eye; no matter if you are shooting a release on the string, on a loop or fingers.

                  When transitioning from fingers to a release the DL stays the same but the anchor changes; from the corner of the mouth to the back of the jaw bone, for example. The DL stays the same.

                  Same thing when going from shooting a release off the string to shooting from a loop; we move the anchor backwards (maybe behind the ear) or we shorten the release to keep the same anchor point. In both cases the DL stays the same.

                  Again, Draw Length is measured with the nock under the eye, this should never change, to the deepest part of the grip.

                  Once a persons DL is known it will not change by much over their lifespan. It may change from bow to bow, because different manufacturers measure differently, but the ACTUAL measurement (on the body) will not change.

                  DO NOT shorten the draw length to make a loop fit or to keep the anchor point; it is far easier to learn a new anchor point than it is to adjust the whole body to a draw length that is too short.
                  Re: bolded type

                  I do not know how you come to that conclusion. It is dead wrong!

                  Not only that, but taking said "advice" can be injurious to the archer's health.

                  I know whereof I speak, one seriously injured bowshoulder later. (Surgery upcoming.)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by AJ the TP Guru View Post
                    Re: bolded type

                    I do not know how you come to that conclusion. It is dead wrong!

                    Not only that, but taking said "advice" can be injurious to the archer's health.

                    I know whereof I speak, one seriously injured bowshoulder later. (Surgery upcoming.)
                    So you're saying that loop shooter's should be shooting with a short draw length, so the string doesn't touch the nose, the nock isn't below the eye? It should be out in front of the shooters face?

                    Not happening, I've set up hundreds, maybe thousands, of bows; the draw length is the draw length (of the bow). The shooter's DL (anchor point)changes with a loop, not the bow's DL.

                    If you must shorten the DL of the bow when you switch to a loop then you were shooting a DL that was too long to begin with (and is still likely too long)!

                    ALWAYS get the correct draw length and then use the loop to set your anchor point. This isn't theory, it is tried and true form management.
                    Last edited by Rat; 01-04-2016, 11:24 AM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I've far less expertise then this crew but I originally clipped to the string and when I added a loop I saw an immediate increase in accuracy but I did in fact reduce my draw length of the bow.

                      Candidly depending on the bow I shoot different draw lengths. I love mathews but they are long compared to the hoyts and bowtechs so I shoot a half inch shorter.

                      Get your DL measured and if possible shoot the bow with different mods or cams on it to find the number you want. I shot 28" Mathews up until I hit the no cam and found I couldn't shoot the bow to save my life. I dropped down to a 27.5 and found that I improved drastically. On a draw board the no cam was more then 28 although it had the 28 module in it.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I will incorporate the replies of the PMs into this post.

                        When we talk about Draw Length (DL) we are really talking about form. To make matters worse there are different definitions of DL; for this we will use the definition that a bow's DL is measured from the deepest part of the bow's grip to the vee in the nock of the arrow when at full draw. A person's DL is measured from this point to the release arm elbow.

                        The Perfect DL: This is the bow's DL that is the best possible DL for proper horizontal and vertical alignment as well as a stress free neck/head and a full sight picture. Roughly, this looks like the nock ends just below the eye and the string touches the tip of the nose, or something very close to this.

                        This DL never changes, the bow is drawn to full draw and this is the alignment that happens, every, single, time.

                        Now, let' stalk about what happens from the nock rearward to the elbow, this is the big deal. To be in proper form you MUST have a release arm elbow that is perfectly in-line with the arrow or just slightly outside, like a very small degree of outside.

                        How the release elbow looks is DIRECTLY related to the loop length and the release length.

                        Anchors, and I'm not talking about our wives, are an essential part of this equation. We set anchors to ensure that we have the perfect release elbow. To hit these anchors every time we adjust both the loop size and/or the release length to hit the anchors perfect so we have a perfect release elbow.

                        If this distance is too short (from the nock to the elbow) the elbow will be outside of the wedge and will cause, not only shot problems, but likely shoulder damage. If this distance is too long we blow the ability to use the rhomboids in the shot execution and to be consistent.

                        But we adjust this distance with the size of the loop (thereby hitting our anchors) or by adjusting our release length (again, hitting our anchors). This way the bow's DL (the perfect DL for our posture and sight window) is not altered but we can fine tune the release elbow.

                        Draw Length can be broken down into three adjustable points:
                        1) The bow's draw length.
                        2) The loop size.
                        3) The length of the release (some releases anyway)

                        All of these MUST work together for the archer to reach the maximum potential through proper form; there is no silver bullet or magic pill, every shooter must make these adjustments to fit their unique body and shooting style.

                        So, to answer the OP's question; no, the string loop will not change the perfect (bow's) DL, but it will affect the OVERALL draw length (from the nock back to the shooter's elbow).

                        Fine tuning the DL is the most overlooked, and important, aspect in archery today, I believe; when you get it right you will shoot better than you ever have.

                        Watch the video for a definition of "The Wedge".

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pCejcb6DAI
                        Last edited by Rat; 01-04-2016, 12:46 PM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by txdukklr View Post
                          I've far less expertise then this crew but I originally clipped to the string and when I added a loop I saw an immediate increase in accuracy but I did in fact reduce my draw length of the bow.
                          This is a good example txdukklr. Did you shorten the DL because of the elbow placement and/or anchors? IOW, did you need to shorten the DL to get your old anchors back?

                          If so ask yourself this (this is all hypothetical but bear with me) was the DL too long to begin with (most likely) or should I have adjusted my release length to compensate?

                          I only ask this because I see, and have helped, many shooters with a DL that is too long; it is the number one thing I see incorrect at ranges.

                          In your case either the DL was too long and it is now correct or, it is now too short and you have had to adapt to shooting with a different sight picture and posture (not that there's any thing wrong with that, see below).

                          I only point this out because I always hear people say, "Yea, but what about so-and-so world pro who shoots a long draw?" like Reo Wilde for example. The answer I have is this; when you shoot 300-400 arrows a day you can have form that is slightly off. The sheer number of arrows produces a level of muscle memory most of us will never get close to achieving.

                          But, I have shot against people who lean into the string, shoot corner eyed and all kinds of things I can't do; but it is right for them.

                          The fact remains though, they don't change their DL, how they shoot is how they shoot, all the time every time.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            My DL was always 31", which is what I had my Mathews Drenalin set at in 2008, that being the first bow I'd ever owned on which a D-loop was installed.

                            I shot it well for about two years, then noticed that my bowshoulder had begun to awaken me in the middle of the night asking for Tylanol. It got so bad that target panic ensued. (For those who have been to my website, this story is old hat, just not the particulars.)

                            Finally, I had a bowshop owner (Mathews dealer) in Las Vegas look at my form, and he suggested a 1" shortened cam. I said I wasn't doing anything different with form than I'd ever done, shooting compounds since the 70s.

                            He asked if I'd ever had a D-Loop installed before. I said no, and he said that's why your shoulder is hurting, and why the target panic has shown up.

                            One 30" cam later, the shoulder stopped hurting. It took another couple of weeks though, to get rid of the target panic.

                            Edit: the unnecessarily long draw I had for two years ended up forming a calcium deposit on a shoulder tendon. In turn, that meant that I could no longer handle 70#. I'm down to 56# draw weight now, but plan to have arthroscopic surgery in 2016, hoping to get some strength back.
                            Last edited by AJ the TP Guru; 01-04-2016, 04:27 PM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              All I know is that in 30+ years of bow hunting my draw length has stayed the same but my anchor point for my draw hand has changed 2 times. First time was when I went from fingers to a release and second time when I went from clipping on the string to a d-loop. The string has always touched the tip of my nose at full draw.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X