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Old 12-20-2017, 08:09 AM   #1
Retsbew
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Default Has traditional archery become hypocritical?

I remember when the idea, and indeed the practice of traditional archery, was to do one's best to keep challenge and simplicity at the forefront of archery applications. From everything to bows, arrows, strings, broadheads, how we aim, woodsmanship, respect for wildlife, respect for how we hunt wildlife, etc., the basic idea was to keep it simple and honor the journey of the challenge of shooting a bow more than just shooting/killing success. The idea was to mimic approaches and materials used before technological advances provided too many convenient alternatives to making shooting and hunting 'hard'. The idea was to not overcomplicate it.

But then, conveniences like gunpowder/sighting optics/the plastic revolution led to plastic/metal composite archery materials and eventually to the age of compounds (sometimes also called the age of gadgets, lol), and finally to where we are now. In looking back and comparing where we started to where we are, the concept of staying with the simpler traditional mindset seems to have disappeared in favor of shooting to compete with others for points on a scorecard, or at least to become 'more perfect'. Everything is measured by the degree to which we succeed, with little deference given to how we got there. In effect, traditional archery has been replaced by 'something else', something less satisfying because success depends primarily on technological or theoretical gadgetry. Original traditional has been thrown into a closet and the door locked behind, with those in that room yearning for more 'honor' in the practice. Such followers are often labeled as traditional elitists or disregarded altogether. By today's mentality, there is no longer and perhaps never was such a thing as traditional archery in the sense described above. We seem to have adopted and now practice a somewhat hypocritical version or archery where we pretend to do it 'the hard way' yet seek every opportunity to find an easier, more 'successful' way. Perhaps because if we don't, we defeat our ability to 'fit in' on sites like this one. Nowadays, archers cannot afford to be seen as obstacles against the winds of modern archery (the latter being primarily target archery, with it's roots firmly embedded in technology). And so we give in to the locked closet theory and often even ridicule the old ways and concepts to better protect our right to 'fit in' on our own terms.

Whatever happened to that old traditional archery mindset? In our rush to be 'better' and fit in with popular fads, have we become hypocritical regarding what the idea of traditional really is and lost touch with the true roots of using a simple 'stick and string'?

A rhetorical question perhaps, but certainly food for thought.

Last edited by Retsbew; 12-20-2017 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:23 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retsbew View Post
Whatever happened to that old traditional archery mindset?
To answer that - First, you are going to have define what "traditional archery" is to you. The mindset is automatically included.

Ask 100 folks to define it, and you'll get a plethora of different definitions.

I've been a trad archer for over 50 years, but my definition is pretty open minded about what it includes.

Rick
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:28 AM   #3
cattlelackranch
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When you start worrying about what other people think is when you lose your shadow.

I believe as a hunter woodsman you can transition between different roles OR you can hone a single craft. As a person I think life dictates what "gets your fancy".

It's all subjective in my opinion. Priorities can vary.

Good discussion
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:35 AM   #4
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I don’t know about hypocritical, but it has made some traditionalists think that they are somehow better than other hunters. They are not, just different.
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:38 AM   #5
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Interesting subject. Many of the folks on Archery talk would lead me to wonder but the majority of the folks on this board inspire me to believe the opposite.

When I look to men like Buff, Bisch, Randy and others I see that what's best in archery and hunting is still alive.

Competition is what causes us to seek more and better. Better combines more efficiently harvest grains allowing us to feed more people more economically. It's not the the trying harder or wanting to do better that inherently lacks honor or conflicts ethically.

I do believe there is a difference between a hunter and a shooter. A woodsman and a weekend wanna be. Each person has to figure out where they are and where they want to be. Mentors and guides like the men I mentioned are invaluable in that quest. Each of us is somewhere on that journey and I'm sure not where I was or where I'll end up.

There is no honor or dishonor in hunting with a gun, cross bow, compound or traditional bow.

The honor and commitment is in the person.

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Last edited by DRT; 12-20-2017 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:46 AM   #6
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I'll take a poke at this as well. I am of the modern era and gadgetry if you will. HOWEVER. My movement to "traditional" archery has been to simplify the tool and to teach myself how to actually shoot and feel a shot. That was my main focus. So like the above has posted it is about my mindset of traditional archery and I don't give a rip what someone else thinks about my choices or the "tools" I use to get there. That deer in my avatar was taken from a homemade ground blind, with a hummingbird recurve, on a well used trail. If that ground blind is something you don't like or maybe my recurve is not traditional enough or?? fine- DON'T USE IT!
I really don't think it is the general opinion that traditional archery is truly gone. Look at the people who post here on the trad side or a number of other traditional bowhunting forums. I'll bet you find the "true" traditional archers you are looking for. As an extra thought. Traditional archery has had competitions since WAY before my time. It's nothing new for men to test their skills and learn from one another. Target archery has been going on in this nation since, well... I'm certain before your time as well.

Last edited by Dry Bones; 12-20-2017 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:49 AM   #7
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I've run the full gamut, from shooting a recurve with woodies, to fiberglass bows and fiberglass arrows, to a non sight compound, aluminum arrows, sights, carbon, then back to a recurve with woodies again. I enjoyed all of it, but just enjoy the simplicity of the recurve now. I understand your thoughts. I'm with DRT, the equipment for the sport has changed, and it makes it somewhat easier to harvest a deer at longer ranges now, but to me it does not take away from the effort and the desire to "compete" with the animal you hunt. If that ever happens to me I will stop hunting.
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:49 AM   #8
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The simplest definition of traditional archery is "not a compound" - beyond that there is a wide spectrum. At one end is the primitive archer who makes everything himself - from the bow and string to the arrow to hand-knapped broadheads. At the other end might be someone using an olympic-style recurve with sight pins. Where we all fall along that spectrum depends on what we are trying to get out of the total experience. For some, the satisfaction of building/using more primitive equipment outweighs the sacrifice in performance. For others performance and accuracy is everything even if that means bows made of modern materials and even - heaven forbid! - adjustable rests and sights. All of it is traditional archery by my definition. Everybody just decides what shooting style and equipment gives them the most satisfaction and the most rewarding total experience.
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Old 12-20-2017, 09:16 AM   #9
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I do think there are people who buy into the latest technology to make it easier to shoot and to get a crack at bucks before rifle season. However, there are a lot of compound guys that use the latest technology and gadgets, but are also shooting year round to get better and better. The club I belong to has a winter league that is probably 95% wheel shooters, and they are shooting and tweaking and tuning to try and get better, if not perfect. That's not my cup of tea, but don't think they are shooting gadgets just because it is easy
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Old 12-20-2017, 09:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retsbew View Post
...Whatever happened to that old traditional archery mindset? In our rush to be 'better' and fit in with popular fads, have we become hypocritical regarding what the idea of traditional really is and lost touch with the true roots of using a simple 'stick and string'?

A rhetorical question perhaps, but certainly food for thought.
The 'traditional archery mindset' is still out there, maybe not as prevalent as it once was, but it is there.

I don't believe hypocrisy is the right term. To be hypocritical is to claim to be one thing while you are secretly something else. Most dedicated trad shooters I know are trad to the core; and even if they aren't, as already mentioned, the definition is pretty fluid. It would be hard to pin down a hypocrite based on your definition, when it is their own definition they are living out.

From an avowed gadget shooter I can tell you the archery mindset is alive and well; but that is a many faceted thing, defined only by the shooter.

"This above all, to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man" - Shakespeare

If you are true to yourself, the journey is the reward, not the destination...
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:10 AM   #11
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IMO...Selfbows shot with wood arrows rule supreme and epitomize hunting because there are many variables to make constantly consistent to produce a harvest...outside of all the variables that cant be made consistent. Ive never shot a selfbow or wood arrows.

Hypocritical. Yep.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:37 AM   #12
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when you started the conversation, with TRADITIONAL ARCHERY,
The first thing i wondered was how old is this person.
how long has this person been shooting.
but to answer your question, some are, some do, and some mite yet.
but not all, are, or do, and never will.
ARCHERY is for me, a life style, a present, past and tomorrow.
my bows and arrows are my companions,
what others do or don't do, say or don't say, makes no matter to me.
if you asked what is archery. i'd have a very direct answer,
it would make some cringe, get angry, or nod their head yes..
but hypocritical, naw it's just having fun...
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:17 PM   #13
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I'm not sure I really grasp what it is you are trying to convey but I got into Traditional Archery for the challenge. Modern archery just got too easy and boring for me.

I've discovered that traditional archery is not only harder to master. A lot harder to learn to shoot well and much trickier to get the equipment right.

I was shooting a selfbow that I made and wood arrows but that bow broke so until I can get another one I'm shooting a recurve with carbon arrows.

I don't know if I'm being hypocritical or not, but what I do, I do for me and no one else.
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:52 PM   #14
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As far as " we defeat our ability to 'fit in' on sites like this one ". In my experience, if it had not been for this site I would like still be shooting a compound. I have been lucky, not only to learn a lot from people on this site but I have made some very good friends as well.

When "gadgets" come into play, well I use Velcro instead of leather on most of my longbows...

To OP, sounds like you may have had your feathers ruffled somewhere, I hope it was not here. I would suggest going to a TBoT shoot next year, not for the completion but for the comradery.

IMO, the people on this site are golden. Most everyone here would gladly give you a pointer or two even if it made you a better shot than them. Most of us are very average shots that happen to love " Traditional Archery" and then we are blessed to have world class shooters here as well. The world class shooter will not boast, the only way you would be able to tell is their scores and/ or hunting success.

Thanks everyone that has helped me and many others along the way in traditional archery and in life. If I may help anyone in any way please let me know.

Ben
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Old 12-20-2017, 01:14 PM   #15
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Traditional archery became obsolete. It is just another method of propelling a sharp object at an animal or target. First it was a hand thrown spear, then the atlatal, then the long bow, then recurves. Hickory spears, cedar shafts, hollow reeds with a sharp stone point, etc. As better and more efficient ways were developed, Compound, crossbow, even airbows. humans graduated to them.

Its hard to pick out one stage of the evolution and determine that THIS is traditional archery. If you make a personal decision to use a specific type of gear, you certainly cant impose that on others around you that use more advanced methods. If you shoot an old Bear Kodiak Mag(i have three) you are just picking a point way late in the evolution. hand thrown stayed around for ten thousand years before the bow.

Do what makes you happy and forget about requiring others to fit your ideal and we all win. steve
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Old 12-20-2017, 03:14 PM   #16
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Tradition isn't constant. It is history. And history changes as time moves on; specifically the perspective of history. Things get blended together. Relevant stuff become irrelevant and vice versa.

Time changes everything. Often times it is a very slow change, and you don't notice it until after you reflect back many years.

By definition, it takes many years to establish tradition... but tradition can be erased in a very short amount of time. That is, unless the tradition is passed on. But how it is passed on can serve to change the tradition.

Confused yet? It is a lot more complicated than a simple statement of "this IS tradition".

For several of us, we live and breath traditional bow hunting. We go afield with a simple stick and string with rather simple looking arrows and try to kill stuff. Some of us can articulate our reasoning for doing it this way really well. Some of us struggle. There aren't enough words to really articulate why I do it. I was drawn to it. I stumbled to get there... but once there, it felt right... right in my heart. Everything else that seemed right, all of a sudden didn't any more. But I acknowledge that at one point in time it felt right and there was absolutely nothing wrong with that at the time. "to your own self be true" rings out here. So it is really easy to take a step back and say... while I understand my method to be harder... there are harder ways... more simpler ways... and easier ways... but that doesn't make one better than the other.

Wisdom comes with time for those who pay attention and reflect and rationalize what they have seen and ask questions. You pose a very good question, and one worth discussing in my opinion. It doesn't sound like you are asking a question for which you have already sold yourself on the answer... and honestly, that is why I like this forum... we mostly have good conversations about stuff and folks learn on here... as long as they are being genuine in the asking of the question.

.... to make a long story short
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Old 12-20-2017, 06:10 PM   #17
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"Whatever happened to that old traditional archery mindset?"

Guess it matters how far back you want to go back to set the traditional bar. Most would assume you're referring to the days before the invention of the compound bow in the late 60's. Maybe a sort of golden era of traditional bowhunting began to grow with that first 1934 bow hunting season, which was advocated by Fred Bear, inspired by Art Young, along with Dr. Saxton Pope, who was taught by Ishi.

But no less than the great Fred Bear was involved with a dispute over traditionalism with his bowyer Nels Grumley, who quit when Bear wanted to use machinery to make bows in greater numbers. Bear later began using fiberglas in his bows, and with Pearson and Hoyt, brought archery to the masses.

We can also look back centuries to the Mongols for building bows by using materials other than just wood. They beefed up their bows' efficiency using bone and sinew.

As far as hunting techniques, closeness to the game has always been a major part of bow hunting. No doubt compounds stretched the distance and enabled greater consistency and accuracy due to mechanical releases. The practice required for "traditional" archers to achieve success in the field is certainly more demanding than for compounds. Most of us don't use knapped flint heads and selfbows. Some may even gain an aiming advantage by string-walking -- gasp!. But I would submit that anyone hunting public land with virtually any type of "traditional" equipment is at very little advantage over his Native American brethren a couple of centuries ago. Government now dictates what type of deer we can shoot -- 13" buck or spike, and no doe after general season starts -- and when. Hiding behind a bush is little different now compared to way back when. Any of us can use smoke for a cover scent, work the wind, stake out a trail based on sign.

We're not allowed to do deer drives or stampede game off a cliff as hunters did for eons. Did you know that archery hunting actually dates back 65,000 years?

So, when did "traditional archery" start?

Last edited by tradtiger; 12-20-2017 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:39 PM   #18
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Default Has traditional archery become hypocritical?

Before compounds, there was no such thing as traditional archery. It was just archery!!!! The term “traditional” was coined by someone after the invent of the compound to differentiate us from them.

To me, there is only archery! I love to shoot and hunt with a longbow. If the next guy wants to shoot a compound or xbow, more power to him! This season has been he77 for me, so bad that I recently bought a compound because I did not feel right going into the woods and hunting with the longbow as bad as I was shooting it! I still love the longbow, and will keep working to get “it” back so I can hunt again with it. I will not do the critters a disservice by hunting in a fashion that I know I am not proficient enough at!!!!! But I also plan to beat this and be hunting again with my longbow soon, because that is what I love to do!!!!!

Bisch


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Old 12-20-2017, 10:49 PM   #19
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It's all good.
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Old 12-21-2017, 05:53 AM   #20
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I have seen this subject debated on other websites several times. It sometimes gets pretty ugly. The reason it gets ugly is because "traditional archery" is all about opinion. Even if a conference were held to establish parameters and decide on a textbook definition of traditional, there would still be people that would not agree.

I have my definition. It is mine and not up for debate so there is no need to throw it out for someone to poke holes in. I will say that things change. Always have and always will. This is not a group of people gathered together to do reinactment displays or to each do our part in preserving history. With no restrictions pertaining to historical similarity, traditional archery is free to experiment with new materials and innovative designs. Now, I think that I will go fire up the 3D printer and build me a penobscot bow this morning. I can see that design putting a Hoyt Satori to shame when you consider the adjust range for tiller and draw weight adjustment.
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Old 12-21-2017, 06:57 AM   #21
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I’m usually stand offish on topics like this but here I go...if you are shooting a trad bow that only consist of a riser (wood or composite) two limbs and one string, as well as any arrow of choice at whatever weight shoots out of said bow it’s traditional archery. I’ve yet to find an easy way to shoot anything that falls into those boundaries. Yes things are maybe a bit easier to tune with modern arrows, adapters, and materials being used to build bows but not one of those things will make you pick up a trad bow and have it mastered in a short amount of time. You still have to put in a large amount of practice and effort to get to where you are good with the bow. If that is competitive in anyway so be it. If posting pictures of my kills or a good group is me being boastful, competitive or trying to one up someone in your eyes, that’s your issue not mine. I post that stuff because I’m proud of the work I’ve put in that enabled me to get to that point. I’m not going to apologize for the fact that things have changed over the last 100 years. If Fred Bear himself was alive and well today I believe he would be a part of a forum much like this one posting his many kills and info that he believed would help others.
It all comes down to the individual, do what makes you happy, call it what ever you want, stay in your own lane and make it work for you. I’ll shoot my recurve, call it killing instead of harvesting, fist bump my brother after a successful hunt and be happy with whatever I shot no matter how big or small and I could care less if it upsets the whole world. Y’all have a good day, shoot straight and God Bless!

Clay
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:01 AM   #22
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Heck, we beat up on each other way more than anyone outside our ranks.

Rick
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:10 AM   #23
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I've not read any replies to your post, OP. but, I'll give my initial thought as someone who does not own traditional archery equipment (though I'd like to try my hand at it at some point).

My initial reaction is that you're worrying too much about it. Just take your stick and string and go huntin'. Leave the all the concern about these sorts of things behind and enjoy the craft. Just my .02, Sir.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:00 AM   #24
Mike Javi Cooper
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Even though I can't shoot a bow anymore.. I still laugh every time I hear the words Traditional Archery... no such thing... There was, is now and always will be just archery

Last edited by Mike Javi Cooper; 12-21-2017 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:20 AM   #25
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I've never minded the moniker. Actually even liked/like it, but like I said - my definition is pretty open minded about what traditional archery includes.

Rick
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:53 AM   #26
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Quote:
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Even though I can't shoot a bow anymore.. I still laugh every time I hear the words Traditional Archery... no such thing... There was, is now and always will be just archery
I think I disagree with that. I am not an elitist, 2 bicep and 3 back surgeries taught me I love to hunt regardless of what bow I use. But I would not lump compounds or crossbows in with recurves, longbows, etc. There is a difference. To me one is not better than the other, but they aren't all the same. I know states (most) lump them all together for a season. But if you show up for a "traditional archery" 3-D and try to use your compound you will be turned away. At least in PA they did.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:27 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBarbee View Post
I've never minded the moniker. Actually even liked/like it, but like I said - my definition is pretty open minded about what traditional archery includes.

Rick
I agree with Rick. When someone says Traditional archery we know that they are talking about bows that do not have wheels and cams on them. Within the traditional family we have people shooting self bows with cane arrows mounted with stone points and people shooting the latest Olympic rigs with sights and stabilizers with a myramid of different setups in between. There is nothing hypocritical about using any of the equipment that fits somewhere in there.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:32 AM   #28
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I have to agree with what someone mentioned above, that "traditional archery" wasn't even a consideration for a category before the compound bows came along.....As mentioned, it was just archery.
I grew up during that period and my first bow I carved out of a cedar limb.
I spent many days in my youth hunting arrow heads, and thinking about what it was like to have to survive using such primitive tools and skills.
I became a hunter at an early age, and I used a bow and arrow with the most modern recurve and arrows that were available back in the early 60's, which wasn't much.
When compounds became available, I went that route, and found that I could increase my consistency, range and success rate beyond what I could ever achieve with my recurve bow.
As I grew older I had to go with a crossbow which made my success even greater.
I was a hunter, the same as when I began the journey, but only the equipment changed.
I still had the same mindset, just different tools.
I still shoot a recurve bow, and will hunt with it when I feel like getting back to archery in it's purist form, which is no sights, or mechanical releases, but it's still hunting, which will always stay the same.
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Old 12-21-2017, 10:31 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Javi Cooper View Post
Even though I can't shoot a bow anymore.. I still laugh every time I hear the words Traditional Archery... no such thing... There was, is now and always will be just archery
I think I get what you are trying to say... and the premise that there is just "archery" makes sense if you look at it from a 100,000 ft level. But once you get on the ground, you realize that there are definitely different forms of archery.

I think the word "traditional" might rub some folks wrong or give some folks some idea of "better" or whatever feeling it gives ya (laughter in your case.) It is probably similar to how I can get when I hear the word "instinctive shooting"... it's all learned... that word doesn't actually apply... but it is now the coined word that is used to describe the difference between that and something else.

So in that regard, I am okay with the idea of calling it traditional archery. Why? because I am too young to remember when it was just "archery". And all the old timers on here call it traditional archery... you could say that calling it "traditional" is somewhat of a tradition now

BTW For means/methods of archery that use hand made, non synthetic materials... I like the use of the word "primitive."

I've also heard some folks start to use the term "modern" when talking compounds and such.

At the end of the day, these are just code words... or handshakes as it were when you discuss your preferred style of archery. Nothing wrong with labels... unless you just don't like labels... and then well, sorry, not much can be done about that.
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:02 AM   #30
RickBarbee
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If my memory serves me, the moniker was not coined by we stickbow shooters, but was a label placed on us by the compound guys.

In my neck of the woods, when the moniker came about, it was meant as a compliment from those guys who coined it.

I have always graciously, and appreciatively accepted that compliment.

Rick
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:22 AM   #31
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Quoting Caughtandhobble:

IMO, the people on this site are golden. Most everyone here would gladly give you a pointer or two even if it made you a better shot than them. Most of us are very average shots that happen to love " Traditional Archery" and then we are blessed to have world class shooters here as well. The world class shooter will not boast, the only way you would be able to tell is their scores and/ or hunting success.


Just to elaborate on the quality of the folks here, the posts above encompass the experience of state champions, national contenders, multiple hunting trips to Africa, big game kills from all over North America as well as those simply striving to challenge themselves in a satisfying way to put meat on their families' tables. As far as the competition aspect, people have always competed (ancient Greek Olympics comes to mind) at games -- such as 3D shoots -- to practice and simulate their set-ups for the "real" thing. Many trad shooters use their hunting rigs -- minus broadheads -- for these 3D shoots.

Last edited by tradtiger; 12-21-2017 at 11:24 AM. Reason: Attribution of pasted quote
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:45 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by RickBarbee View Post
If my memory serves me, the moniker was not coined by we stickbow shooters, but was a label placed on us by the compound guys.

In my neck of the woods, when the moniker came about, it was meant as a compliment from those guys who coined it.

I have always graciously, and appreciatively accepted that compliment.

Rick
Exactly. One time I walked up to the static target range at the archery club, where a compound shooter was practicing. As I stepped up with a Ben Pearson recurve, he said: "Good to see a REAL archer."

It was spoken with admiration and recognition of the difficulty required to use traditional equipment. I smiled and commended the 4-inch groups he was shooting at 40 yards.

He went on to say something like: Yeah, but I could never get close to that with your rig.
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Old 12-21-2017, 12:05 PM   #33
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Exactly. One time I walked up to the static target range at the archery club, where a compound shooter was practicing. As I stepped up with a Ben Pearson recurve, he said: "Good to see a REAL archer."

It was spoken with admiration and recognition of the difficulty required to use traditional equipment. I smiled and commended the 4-inch groups he was shooting at 40 yards.

He went on to say something like: Yeah, but I could never get close to that with your rig.
Funny how that works eh? I have probably received the most compliments from compound shooters. They are the ones that will be the first to come out and say "you are doing it the hard way!"

Then again, between us trad hunters... we kind of already know how hard it is, so the word "hard" rarely comes up unless we are trying to level set somebody who thought it was going to be easy to do when they first get started.

At the end of the day, I appreciate people who are honest about their endeavors. I probably get into too much trouble over explaining certain endeavors; but most of the time it isn't about bragging or self deprecation... just about wanting to tell the honest story. Saying I killed 3 rabbits is one thing... saying I missed 40 times on the same hunt paints a different picture. Saying I did it with just a stick bow... yet again paints that picture differently yet again.

And sometimes I hate the word hard or easy... My son stopped me in my tracks once when he told me gun hunting was easy. "Why?" I asked. "Because you do it with a bow and it is much harder" was his reply. "Well Yes, that is true, it is harder, but that doesn't make gun hunting easy" I retorted. I explained that at one point, getting a deer down with a gun seemed hard. Yes, it seems less hard now that I have a different perspective, but that doesn't make it any easier when you are at that point in life where you are still learning. A weekend later, he shot under a buck at 90 yards. After we walked around for 30 minutes proving to ourselves he had actually missed, I said to him... "so, was that easy?" Thankfully, 30 minutes later, he drilled a doe at 100 yards through an opening in a cattle panel. Easy is relative and we can't lose sight of the fact that just because our perspectives change, doesn't mean that something is more or less hard.

I remember the struggles I had with a compound bow...
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Old 12-21-2017, 12:10 PM   #34
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Archery is the practice, skill, sport, or act of propelling an arrow with a bow... The division of Archery into little pieces is and will always be personal and based on the equipment, style, and yes even purpose of the individual.

Even when there were no mechanically assisted bows and no one had ever heard of Traditional Archery, there were factions within archery who divided it into many different disciplines and yet it remained ARCHERY...
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Old 12-21-2017, 12:12 PM   #35
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A "SHOOTER" by my loose definition, is someone who can shoot well.

Anyone who takes the time, and dedicates themselves to be a "SHOOTER" has my full respect, and admiration regardless of their weapon of choice.

That even includes crossbows, although I still don't think they belong in an archery only season, except for someone who has a handicap keeping them from doing otherwise.

Rick
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Old 12-21-2017, 05:30 PM   #36
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Jeffro said it best it is or it is not but it is having fun with a group of friends with a stick and string doing it the old way.
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:13 AM   #37
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Rick Barbee and Bisch posts nailed it IMHO. I have grown up in the world of archery. Been shooting for 60 years. Had the good fortune to have mom and and that owned an archery shop in the early 60's, was able to answer the phone at the archery shop and have Fred Bear or Art Laha on the other end asking for my dad. Growing up in the store allowed me to learn how to make bow strings and fletch arrows. It allowed me to learn how to shoot a bow and at one time wasn't too bad of a shot, not so good now, lol. We owned an "archery shop" and then the compound came on the scene and as someone wrote, "traditional archery" was termed.

Archery is what you make it. As mentioned I grew up in archery, shooting a recurve, giving the compound a go for a few years ,back to a recurve or longbow and now I use a self bow and stone points which I took time to learn how to make.

I never look down on anyone who uses legal equipment as it is their choice and as long as they obey the laws of the land it is OK with me, not that anyone needs my approval.

As mention, the term "Traditional Archery" arrived with the compound bow. Just have fun shooting and parents, get your kids involved and grand parents, get your grand kids involved.
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:20 AM   #38
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I consider shooting trad meaning no wheels.

There were more sight shooters using "trad" equipment in the 50's than now days.
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:29 AM   #39
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I consider shooting trad meaning no wheels.

There were more sight shooters using "trad" equipment in the 50's than now days.
Agreed, except I will add to the no wheels with no mechanical device to aid in leveraging of draw weight. Just the lever of the limbs themselves, and nothing else.

Rick
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:10 AM   #40
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Agreed, except I will add to the no wheels with no mechanical device to aid in leveraging of draw weight. Just the lever of the limbs themselves, and nothing else.

Rick
What would aid in leveraging the limbs a draw loc?
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:15 AM   #41
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What would aid in leveraging the limbs a draw loc?
I was thinking along the lines of the Oneida bows.
They are a compound bow resulting in let off for ease of draw, but don't have wheels.

A draw lock only holds the bow at full draw, but you still have to pull it back to lock it. To me, that would be SCARY on a trad bow. LOL

Rick
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:23 AM   #42
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I was thinking along the lines of the Oneida bows.
They are a compound bow resulting in let off for ease of draw, but don't have wheels.

A draw lock only holds the bow at full draw, but you still have to pull it back to lock it. To me, that would be SCARY on a trad bow. LOL

Rick
The Oneida had a cam I think. I never could understand the concept. I would and did just shot a compound. I believe they have been out of business. Ted Nugent shot one instinctive before he went to sights and compounds.
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Old 12-23-2017, 12:26 PM   #43
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I killed a doe last night with my compound. Today I will sit in a ground blind with my recurve looking for a management buck. Does that make me a hypocrite?

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Old 12-23-2017, 12:45 PM   #44
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I killed a doe last night with my compound. Today I will sit in a ground blind with my recurve looking for a management buck. Does that make me a hypocrite?

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Nope. It just makes you versatile.

Rick
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Old 12-23-2017, 01:18 PM   #45
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I shoot several variations of traditional bows, can throw a pretty mean rock out of a shepherds sling, get the urge to try the atlatl from time to time, which would be more traditional?
I don't know, I don't care, I do it for the enjoyment. You you can sleep better knowing that Tom, ****, or Harry aren't going to decide for me, I'm grown and I'll do whatever it is that I do.
If I go to a contest then I follow the rules set out by the governing body, if I hunt same thing, the rules are set out and made known for the most part, as long as your within the rules your good.
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Old 12-23-2017, 01:36 PM   #46
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I am not a traditional archer. I simply choose to shoot a single string bow. There are far too many definitions of what "traditional" means to spend time thinking about any of them when I could be shooting my bow instead.

Last edited by Fuzzy Dog; 12-23-2017 at 01:37 PM. Reason: Correct typo.
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Old 12-23-2017, 02:40 PM   #47
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I am a "traditional" archer and proud of it. As someone said above the term "Traditional" was given to us by the wheelbow shooters. It is simply a way to differentiate between those of us that shoot bows with no wheels or cams and those that shoot bows with them. Since the stick and string can be traced back 10,000 years by direct evidence (up to 64,000 years by indirect evidence in South Africa) and the compound dates back roughly 51 years to when Allen developed it in 1961 it makes sense that the stick and string would be called traditional. So, stand up and be proud to be called a "traditional" archer. Just remember you are no better and no worse than any other archer just because you're a traditional archer.
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Old 12-23-2017, 04:28 PM   #48
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Quote:
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I am a "traditional" archer and proud of it. As someone said above the term "Traditional" was given to us by the wheelbow shooters. It is simply a way to differentiate between those of us that shoot bows with no wheels or cams and those that shoot bows with them. Since the stick and string can be traced back 10,000 years by direct evidence (up to 64,000 years by indirect evidence in South Africa) and the compound dates back roughly 51 years to when Allen developed it in 1961 it makes sense that the stick and string would be called traditional. So, stand up and be proud to be called a "traditional" archer. Just remember you are no better and no worse than any other archer just because you're a traditional archer.


Rick
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:03 PM   #49
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Hypocritical......

Some folks spend way too much time worried about what other folks are thinking or doing.

I have been in hundreds of camps most of them I am the only fellow with a recurve.
I have never felt handicapped by my choice of weapon.

I used to cringe when someone would call me a Trad guy.
There were a few fellows making the 3-D shoots who would run down anyone using a compound, then go out and miss half the targets with their longbow but still somehow felt superior to everyone else because they didn’t use a compound.
I hated to be around them.

Inside 20 yards I am as deadly as any other weapon

I always figured we were just a bunch of big kids playing in the woods, use what ever toy makes you happy
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:15 PM   #50
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Hypocritical......

Some folks spend way too much time worried about what other folks are thinking or doing.

I have been in hundreds of camps most of them I am the only fellow with a recurve.
I have never felt handicapped by my choice of weapon.

I used to cringe when someone would call me a Trad guy.
There were a few fellows making the 3-D shoots who would run down anyone using a compound, then go out and miss half the targets with their longbow but still somehow felt superior to everyone else because they didn’t use a compound.
I hated to be around them.


I always figured we were just a bunch of big kids playing in the woods, use what ever toy makes you happy
Inside 20 yards I am as deadly as any other weapon




Buff,
I mostly agree with what you say. I've been in many camps where I was the only one using a longbow. But, never once did I cringe when someone called me a Trad guy, I always knew what I could do with my longbow.
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