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Old 09-14-2018, 09:02 AM   #51
TacticalCowboy
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Them safeties are slow.

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Old 09-14-2018, 03:43 PM   #52
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Default I'm an old fart.

Every firearm I've ever shot or owned (shotgun and rifle only) had a safety. Once in 71 years I forgot to take the safety off a rifle as I was bringing it up to my shoulder.
Missed a nice buck. I was 12. Learned a valuable lesson.
Never forgot to take a shotgun safety off.

Pistols are different. I get that. I've never been in law enforcement. I'm NO expert.

But I train with my carry pistol and the safety always comes off on the way up.

Maybe I'll be sorry someday. Hope not.

If that safety on my pistol prevents one of my grandkids from getting hurt, it's worth it.

Carry what you like, how you like. I made my choice.
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:15 PM   #53
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I just had this conversation with my barber, who asked me what I was carrying after I walked in. I guess I need to work on not printing :/
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:22 PM   #54
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Itís great to say train, muscle memory, blah,blah, blah but the reality is the majority of people carrying shoot a couple times a year.

The ones who actually practice and train are very rare.


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Old 09-14-2018, 04:38 PM   #55
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My first carry gun was an M&P9c. I ended up getting the model with the safety, because my old man was with me, and lived under his roof at the time, which resulted in me picking my battles because no one wins against the persistent engineer. I did a lot of training classes with it and got very good about drawing in a method that my thumb drops the safety as soon as my hand grabs from the holster. However, i take such a deep grip on it that i started to find that when i draw out and slam my support hand up in a hurry, my support hand would engage the safety and pisotola no go bang. So that pretty much fixed my desire to have safety's for edc, with the exception of now carrying a 4 inch 1911. I did end up shaving down the safety on the 9 so that it's not so thick, but it's so easy to flip, that it's as much a pro as a con.

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Old 09-14-2018, 10:42 PM   #56
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It’s great to say train, muscle memory, blah,blah, blah but the reality is the majority of people carrying shoot a couple times a year.

The ones who actually practice and train are very rare.


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Which leads me to believe their chances of shooting theirself in the leg or blowing their own hand off or at the very least,dropping the magazine out of their gun by accident in a stressful situation are greater than someone that does. So the whole safety thing is actually better for them because they're less likely to prematurely shoot a hole in something right out of the holster.
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:58 PM   #57
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Which leads me to believe their chances of shooting theirself in the leg or blowing their own hand off or at the very least,dropping the magazine out of their gun by accident in a stressful situation are greater than someone that does. So the whole safety thing is actually better for them because they're less likely to prematurely shoot a hole in something right out of the holster.


If they shoot themselves thatís on them. But it would suck a lot worse to have a gun and be killed because you freaked out and forgot to take the safety off.


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Old 09-15-2018, 02:17 AM   #58
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If they shoot themselves thatís on them. But it would suck a lot worse to have a gun and be killed because you freaked out and forgot to take the safety off.


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Either scenario would likely have a negative outcome. I like to see the good guys win. I think anyone that makes the choice to carry should make a conscious effort to practice with their weapon of choice or at least get more familiar with it than just shooting at a milk jug once or twice a year. If someone is serious enough about protecting their life and the lives of those around them if that day comes I think it's something that should come as second nature to use it just like they would any other tool. Because if that day comes nobody can really afford to lose.

I won't say one is any better or safer for that matter. Because in the hands of someone that's not prepared or familiar with their carry pistol both are equally hazardous to their health. And either one can be highly effective in the hands of someone that is.
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Old 09-15-2018, 02:59 AM   #59
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I just ordered a Smith and Wesson Shield 2.0. I had the option for a thumb safety, or no safety.

Normally on a striker fire that you carry, I would say no safety. But I ordered this one with a safety because Iím assuming that I will be taking it off every time I get into the car to drive.

I was thinking about buying one of those car magnets that you mount on the lower dash. I donít like the thought of it sitting out in the open next my leg with nothing but the trigger as the safety.



Thoughts or opinions?


Sitting out in the open isnít legal anyway.
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Old 09-15-2018, 09:53 AM   #60
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My first carry gun was an M&P9c. I ended up getting the model with the safety, because my old man was with me, and lived under his roof at the time, which resulted in me picking my battles because no one wins against the persistent engineer. I did a lot of training classes with it and got very good about drawing in a method that my thumb drops the safety as soon as my hand grabs from the holster. However, i take such a deep grip on it that i started to find that when i draw out and slam my support hand up in a hurry, my support hand would engage the safety and pisotola no go bang. So that pretty much fixed my desire to have safety's for edc, with the exception of now carrying a 4 inch 1911. I did end up shaving down the safety on the 9 so that it's not so thick, but it's so easy to flip, that it's as much a pro as a con.

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Ride the safety and your wonít have that problem.
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Old 09-15-2018, 06:24 PM   #61
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Sitting out in the open isnít legal anyway.
Yep If I see it and not carried per the law there could be a problem.
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Old 09-15-2018, 07:11 PM   #62
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Guns without safeties are like balconies without railings. Don't go near the edge and you have nothing to worry about. And besides, if there was ever an emergency like a fire when you needed to get out fast, the railing is just going to slow you down!

It's all part of the marketing fantasy that you're going to be the hero of the gas station. You're "Ready". But unless you work behind the counter at a gas station or live in a sketchy part of town, it's probably going to be several lifetimes of EDC before the moment you're Ready (TM) for comes. And in the meantime if you carry chambered without a safety over the course of several lifetimes you're going to eventually shoot yourself in the ***.
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Old 09-15-2018, 07:42 PM   #63
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Yep If I see it and not carried per the law there could be a problem.

Shall not be infringed, except when the popo wants to. hmmm......
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Old 09-15-2018, 08:02 PM   #64
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Shall not be infringed, except when the popo wants to. hmmm......
Interesting isnít it.
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Old 09-15-2018, 08:27 PM   #65
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Default Safety or no safety on a carry pistol?

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Originally Posted by Balcones_Walker View Post
Guns without safeties are like balconies without railings. Don't go near the edge and you have nothing to worry about. And besides, if there was ever an emergency like a fire when you needed to get out fast, the railing is just going to slow you down!

It's all part of the marketing fantasy that you're going to be the hero of the gas station. You're "Ready". But unless you work behind the counter at a gas station or live in a sketchy part of town, it's probably going to be several lifetimes of EDC before the moment you're Ready (TM) for comes. And in the meantime if you carry chambered without a safety over the course of several lifetimes you're going to eventually shoot yourself in the ***.


Funny the only gun Iíve had a ND with is a 1911 with all of its safeties.

Iíve been carrying guns with no manually operated safety daily for 12 years and havenít shot myself in the *** yet.


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Old 09-15-2018, 08:53 PM   #66
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I carried a 1911 cocked and locked with the grip safety pinned for a lot of years.. Never had the safety slow me down and since the safety came off as the weapon came to point I doubt anyone I might have been shooting at would have heard the sound over the hammer fall..

Nowadays I carry a Glock 30S..

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Old 09-16-2018, 09:17 AM   #67
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Sitting out in the open isnít legal anyway.
I posted that on the first page and everybody ignored it .
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:39 AM   #68
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I wonder how that would play out in court... Licensed to carry individual arrested for having their handgun laying on their console while driving. Leo said... but, but I could see it....

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Old 09-16-2018, 11:56 AM   #69
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I carry either a Glock 43 or 19 99% of the time...no safety for me.
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Old 09-16-2018, 01:28 PM   #70
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I posted that on the first page and everybody ignored it .
Yep. Could cause a person a lot of trouble and a criminal record

In today's world LEO'S take this very serious.

It's stupid not to carry correctly when it is so easy.

a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the persons control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view, unless the person is licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and the handgun is carried in a shoulder or belt holster;

b) Except as provided by Subsection (c) or (d), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
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Old 09-16-2018, 02:26 PM   #71
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Yep. Could cause a person a lot of trouble and a criminal record

In today's world LEO'S take this very serious.

It's stupid not to carry correctly when it is so easy.

a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the persons control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view, unless the person is licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and the handgun is carried in a shoulder or belt holster;

b) Except as provided by Subsection (c) or (d), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
And I will tell you that if I were on the jury for that trial and that were the only charge, you'd play hell getting a conviction.

That section is a hold over from the CC law and I doubt that it would stand up under review on its own merit.

I don't want to be the test case, but I'll bet that if you start busting licensed carriers for that alone. You'll have that test pretty soon..

Back in the day we called those kind of laws... GOTCHA or probable cause tools... not to be enforced on their own, but a great addition as a gotcha..

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Old 09-16-2018, 04:24 PM   #72
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Yep. Could cause a person a lot of trouble and a criminal record

In today's world LEO'S take this very serious.

[/COLOR]
Good to know LEOs take restricting constitutional rights that they "swear" to uphold seriously. Just like many say they would never ever confiscate law abiding citizens guns/property but they tend to seize people's money without recourse and many people's firearms after Katrina, of which most have been "lost"
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Old 09-16-2018, 04:46 PM   #73
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Good to know LEOs take restricting constitutional rights that they "swear" to uphold seriously. Just like many say they would never ever confiscate law abiding citizens guns/property but they tend to seize people's money without recourse and many people's firearms after Katrina, of which most have been "lost"


How are they restricting anything? The law posted above clearly states what is prohibited.

I donít like it either but currently, that is the law. They are bound to enforce the law.


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Old 09-16-2018, 05:07 PM   #74
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How are they restricting anything? The law posted above clearly states what is prohibited.

I donít like it either but currently, that is the law. They are bound to enforce the law.


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What if an oath to uphold the Constitution contradicts the the law they are bound by?

Also, how is getting fined or arrested for carrying a legally owned pistol in your vehicle not being restrictive?

I get that it is the law, but law enforcement has a history of, "just enforcing the law" when the laws are contrary to the Constitution. As has been proven by history, the defense of "just doing my job" doesn't remove the responsibility of ones actions.

Nazi Germany, Separate but Equal, now seizure of property, etc. Just cause it is the law doesn't make it right
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Old 09-16-2018, 06:29 PM   #75
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And I will tell you that if I were on the jury for that trial and that were the only charge, you'd play hell getting a conviction.

That section is a hold over from the CC law and I doubt that it would stand up under review on its own merit.

I don't want to be the test case, but I'll bet that if you start busting licensed carriers for that alone. You'll have that test pretty soon..

Back in the day we called those kind of laws... GOTCHA or probable cause tools... not to be enforced on their own, but a great addition as a gotcha..
Looks like you got your panties in a wad....

If they are licensed they should know the laws and obey them.

I am pretty sure many have already been arrested for that charge.

I did say COULD and not would.



I'm out!
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Old 09-16-2018, 07:02 PM   #76
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What if an oath to uphold the Constitution contradicts the the law they are bound by?



Also, how is getting fined or arrested for carrying a legally owned pistol in your vehicle not being restrictive?



I get that it is the law, but law enforcement has a history of, "just enforcing the law" when the laws are contrary to the Constitution. As has been proven by history, the defense of "just doing my job" doesn't remove the responsibility of ones actions.



Nazi Germany, Separate but Equal, now seizure of property, etc. Just cause it is the law doesn't make it right


I totally get what you are saying but you are advised to follow the law and they are bound to uphold the law.

There are many laws on the books that are unjust but refusing to follow the law doesnít work well for us and refusing to enforce the law doesnít usually bode well for law enforcement. Itís a catch 22 situation that sucks.

Our main power to do anything is to get the law changed through voting and such, not whine about them on the internet.


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Old 09-16-2018, 07:05 PM   #77
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After being a 1911 fan, the an XD guy, then a few sig's, I now prefer glocks and love the fact there's no " safety. "
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Old 09-16-2018, 07:13 PM   #78
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I totally get what you are saying but you are advised to follow the law and they are bound to uphold the law.

There are many laws on the books that are unjust but refusing to follow the law doesn’t work well for us and refusing to enforce the law doesn’t usually bode well for law enforcement. It’s a catch 22 situation that sucks.

Our main power to do anything is to get the law changed through voting and such, not whine about them on the internet.


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I agree with much of what you are saying, but calling BS when i see it is not really whining. Falling in line and blindly following/supporting cops is not in my nature, but if it is in yours, that's cool
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Old 09-16-2018, 07:22 PM   #79
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I agree with much of what you are saying, but calling BS when i see it is not really whining. Falling in line and blindly following/supporting cops is not in my nature, but if it is in yours, that's cool


I tend to follow the law whether I agree with it or not. I like my house better than jail, but if you donít, thatís cool.


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Old 09-16-2018, 07:24 PM   #80
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After being a 1911 fan, the an XD guy, then a few sig's, I now prefer glocks and love the fact there's no " safety. "
My only no safety defensive pistol is a 23 but it has the rtf2 finish & little too crusty on the edges...I like it but seldom carry it. All my other defense autos are a 1911 / 2011 design and what I started with 30 years ago.

Bet if I even had the 23 on me I would still go for a safety that isn't there in a scary moment.

I get calls about this topic often & the answer really depends on the individual. I never recommend a 1911 coming out of the gates for a first timer, even though that is how I started. Sometimes it is the lowly revolver or one of the new autos that have the first shot with a similar long double action pull. For those that really are interested in shooting & want to practice a lot...the Glock & other new striker fires are hard to beat for a first carry gun. Some mfg's are even offering the same design with & without a safety.
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Old 09-16-2018, 07:37 PM   #81
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I tend to follow the law whether I agree with it or not. I like my hoCool use better than jail, but if you donít, thatís cool.


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So do you call BS, or just duck and go along? And yes i follow the laws too, but I also tell it like it is. I have a feeling you do too. Many people are all pro law enforcement all the time, I choose to be pro law enforcement when they are in the right, and when they are not i have no problem saying it
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Old 09-16-2018, 08:43 PM   #82
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What if an oath to uphold the Constitution contradicts the the law they are bound by?

Also, how is getting fined or arrested for carrying a legally owned pistol in your vehicle not being restrictive?

I get that it is the law, but law enforcement has a history of, "just enforcing the law" when the laws are contrary to the Constitution. As has been proven by history, the defense of "just doing my job" doesn't remove the responsibility of ones actions.

Nazi Germany, Separate but Equal, now seizure of property, etc. Just cause it is the law doesn't make it right
All laws are constitutional unless a court says otherwise.

Article III Section 1 of that same Constitution that you referenced it says... ďThe judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme CourtĒ.

In the question of their jurisdiction over rights it is followed up in Section 2 which says.... ďThe judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this ConstitutionĒ.

In the Constitution it says (above) that the SCOTUS has the judicial power in questions in ďall casesĒ ďarising under this ConstitutionĒ.

It doesnít say that the opinion is delivered by RJH1, tvc or TBH.

When you get the SCOTUS to throw out carry laws, you will be on firm legal ground. Until then....

I look forward to that day. There are still people sitting in jail on gun charges that agree with your opinion. The trial court didnít ask them to interpret the Constitution either. Arguing over an officerís oath isnít helping them either.
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Old 09-16-2018, 09:02 PM   #83
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All laws are constitutional unless a court says otherwise.

Article III Section 1 of that same Constitution that you referenced it says... “The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court”.

In the question of their jurisdiction over rights it is followed up in Section 2 which says.... “The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution”.

In the Constitution it says (above) that the SCOTUS has the judicial power in questions in “all cases” “arising under this Constitution”.

It doesn’t say that the opinion is delivered by RJH1, tvc or TBH.

When you get the SCOTUS to throw out carry laws, you will be on firm legal ground. Until then....

I look forward to that day. There are still people sitting in jail on gun charges that agree with your opinion. The trial court didn’t ask them to interpret the Constitution either. Arguing over an officer’s oath isn’t helping them either.

I don't disagree with this either, however when you look at the bill of rights many if not all are being disregarded by law enforcement and the courts, and you are right they don't give a sh*t what i or you think and seem more than happy to keep that status quo, but i will continue to call BS when i see it. Maybe if enough people speak up something will get done. Probably not though with all the LEO apologist that want to pick a "team" instead of speaking up when rights are stepped on

But we have kinda strayed from the OP..... haha

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Old 09-16-2018, 09:26 PM   #84
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No safety just my trigger finger.
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Old 09-16-2018, 10:25 PM   #85
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My only no safety defensive pistol is a 23 but it has the rtf2 finish & little too crusty on the edges...I like it but seldom carry it. All my other defense autos are a 1911 / 2011 design and what I started with 30 years ago.

Bet if I even had the 23 on me I would still go for a safety that isn't there in a scary moment.

I get calls about this topic often & the answer really depends on the individual. I never recommend a 1911 coming out of the gates for a first timer, even though that is how I started. Sometimes it is the lowly revolver or one of the new autos that have the first shot with a similar long double action pull. For those that really are interested in shooting & want to practice a lot...the Glock & other new striker fires are hard to beat for a first carry gun. Some mfg's are even offering the same design with & without a safety.
Once again, a proper grip/ draw removes all that.
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Old 09-17-2018, 03:35 PM   #86
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Sitting out in the open isnít legal anyway.
Using a gun magnet under the dash is not in plain view.
Also, they do not enforce "in a holster provision" also. I have been pulled over a few times for speeding and have informed (and removed) my pistol from the center console several times over the years. Once by HPD, once by DPS, and once by the Border Patrol checking me out.
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Old 09-17-2018, 03:38 PM   #87
Capp35
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Too be clear, It was inside the center console unholstered.
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Old 09-17-2018, 03:41 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan R View Post
Yep. Could cause a person a lot of trouble and a criminal record

In today's world LEO'S take this very serious.

It's stupid not to carry correctly when it is so easy.

a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the persons control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view, unless the person is licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and the handgun is carried in a shoulder or belt holster;

b) Except as provided by Subsection (c) or (d), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
It says "in plain view".
Reaching under the dash is not in plain view or reckless.
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Old 09-17-2018, 05:56 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capp35 View Post
Too be clear, It was inside the center console unholstered.
Anywhere in the car you can not see it would be okay.

Not sure about the magnet thing...
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Old 09-17-2018, 06:42 PM   #90
Artos
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Once again, a proper grip/ draw removes all that.
again...like already stated, most don't shoot their pistols enough to even consider the safety aspect being an automatic event in a heightened situation much less understand what you/we understand about by a proper draw. Hell, even most recreational pistol shooters do not ever practice any emergency holster / unholster of their sidearms at the range to simulate.

I can explain it to those who ask, but if they are honest in their sincerity about how much they will actually carry / practice?? Sometimes suggesting a revolver like a 442 or 642 is what suits them best 'coming out of the gates' vs a 19 or M&P.

Talking neophytes out of the uber micro autos they are looking into & in regards to explaining said proper draw & moving them into a snubby with an actual grip they can find is fairly common for me. All I'm saying is what seems common sense to you and I isn't going to happen in the real world to many of the folks who ask me what their first defensive pistol should be.
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Old 09-18-2018, 06:48 AM   #91
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No safety for me on a striker fired carry pistol.
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:38 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Capp35 View Post
Using a gun magnet under the dash is not in plain view.
Also, they do not enforce "in a holster provision" also. I have been pulled over a few times for speeding and have informed (and removed) my pistol from the center console several times over the years. Once by HPD, once by DPS, and once by the Border Patrol checking me out.
It all depends on how itís mounted.

I would not mess with someone with an LTC but would tell the person that I work with officers that will lock you up and I highly suggest that you hide that handgun unless you want to lose your LTC.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:30 PM   #93
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My striker fire has a safety but I only engage it when I am removing the weapon from the holster. When it is in the holster, safety is off.
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Old 09-18-2018, 05:31 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvc184 View Post
It all depends on how itís mounted.

I would not mess with someone with an LTC but would tell the person that I work with officers that will lock you up and I highly suggest that you hide that handgun unless you want to lose your LTC.
Thanks
It is always out of sight.
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Old 09-18-2018, 05:37 PM   #95
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I prefer so safety opposed to having a safety on my shield.
Less you have to worry about if you need to draw in a situation.
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:53 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
It’s great to say train, muscle memory, blah,blah, blah but the reality is the majority of people carrying shoot a couple times a year.

The ones who actually practice and train are very rare.


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True stuff right here, and I can say as I get older I am guilty of not 'training' as much as I used to, or should.

I shoot a lot, but I dont really consider it 'training' for any type of CC situation. That said, once I clear my shirt, there is no safety to worry about!

Last edited by -HIC-; 09-19-2018 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:49 PM   #97
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Ruger original LC9. When it comes out of the holster my trigger finger is down the slide and my thumb takes off the safety as it come out. Takes practice like putting on a seat belt.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:11 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capp35 View Post
I just ordered a Smith and Wesson Shield 2.0. I had the option for a thumb safety, or no safety.
Normally on a striker fire that you carry, I would say no safety. But I ordered this one with a safety because Iím assuming that I will be taking it off every time I get into the car to drive.
I was thinking about buying one of those car magnets that you mount on the lower dash. I donít like the thought of it sitting out in the open next my leg with nothing but the trigger as the safety.

Thoughts or opinions?
I re read the original post and understand that when the OP is not carrying the gun he will stick it on a magnet under or lower on the dash.

So the firearm will not be in plain view while it is under or lower on the dash stuck to a magnet, with a loaded round and no safety?

I would not be comfortable with that for one reason. While that firearm is stuck to magnet you really do not have control over it until you place your hand on it and remove it from the magnet. If there was some sort of situation and the firearm was "taken" from the magnet from someone other than you with no safety on it and a loaded round could create a serious issue.

I guess everybody has their own opinions on this situation, but just seems like if you got familiar enough with the firearm with a safety it would not be a big deal to have it.

Not trying to stir the pot or create arguments, maybe I'm just too old to not have a safety on my firearms.
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Old 09-22-2018, 01:33 AM   #99
BBRU
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I prefer a safety
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:21 AM   #100
Mauler
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I never carry a charged firearm unless I have an immediate plan to use it. I was sitting at the table with my family at the restaurant and thought to myself. If I had my pistol in my pocket it would be pointing at my wife and child across the table with a bullet in the chamber. The only thing protecting them from getting accidentally shot would be a man made safety or chance.

So I decided to never carry hot and if the opportunity for a quick draw self defense arises i would just not be shooting. Iím not a fan of carry hot. And I really donít think quick drawing is going to save my life. If someone has the drop on you then you are prob dead if you try to draw. I think the piece will save me in certain situation and my patience and ability to de escalate will have to get menthru the others.
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