Less let = ??

[Dry Bones]

enewman, that is what I am most curious about. And Stoof I agree, but again inquiring mind.

[mej4219]

It seems counter-intuitive, but the more let off you have, the more speed you can get, but it doesn't make that big of a difference in the grand scheme of things (< 5 fps). The way it makes sense to me is that there is more acceleration of the arrow from a higher let off bow. Other people are correct that compound bows are designed to get their benefit from the cams and limb compression. If you want to increase performance, the most efficient ways are to lengthen your draw length (if possible) and increase draw weight.

[Dry Bones]

Due to weather I was not able to get any real work done today, so I made the most of it with this thread and then shooting. Sorry no video as I don't post videos. AND I do not have a chronograph, so results are not real scientific.
My bow has an draw length adjustable cam, so I can turn the draw mod to accommodate anything from 26-30"
I started in 1/2" increments. Unfortunately I found that the more I moved into longer draw the actual less total poundage from the bow at my desired anchor, and more hold weight. I know I do not completely understand cam systems and today proved it. When I finally had the mod turned to a 29" draw the let-off became minimal, but the bow never reached the overall poundage I had before actually showing 5 less pounds. without the true speed reading I know I may be leaving something on the table somewhere, but I cannot find it.
Ultimately I did increase my draw length a little and moved the draw mod ahead. Still comfortable and now i need a little sight tuning but probably nothing significant has changed. Draw mod to 28.5" draw and draw stop at 27.75" the cams are turning over and I am holding just over 20#. Total penetration is showing <1" more then I was getting originally.
Fun day spent playing and again thanks to all who posted.

[Rat]

Not sure how I missed this thread, but what you found is what I was going to point out.

If you do as Rocky and Enewman have said you will end up with lower draw weight over all; this is due to not letting the cams roll over fully to deflect the limbs.

What you have done illustrated this.

All you need to do now is twist the cables to get the poundage back; and you may need to make slightly shorter cables. I would twist the cables to get the poundage back and then make new cables based on the measurement of the twisted cables. It will be a lot of twisting to get that bow back up to peak draw weight.

You are on the right track, you just need to keep going.

[Dry Bones]

Thanks for the response Rat. I may have to invest in a bow vise before I start twisting cables and making my own, (or ordering them to the desired specification). With this amount of decrease in cable length will the resting Brace height come up? any prolonged danger in the added constant compression?

[rocky]

Not sure how I missed this thread, but what you found is what I was going to point out.

If you do as Rocky and Enewman have said you will end up with lower draw weight over all; this is due to not letting the cams roll over fully to deflect the limbs.

What you have done illustrated this.

All you need to do now is twist the cables to get the poundage back; and you may need to make slightly shorter cables. I would twist the cables to get the poundage back and then make new cables based on the measurement of the twisted cables. It will be a lot of twisting to get that bow back up to peak draw weight.

You are on the right track, you just need to keep going.

I just pulled a bow off the rack, and tested poundage at 29” 80 percent let off. 69 lbs. Set drawstop to 28.5 and tested, 69 lbs. Both settings shot the exact same speed, just had higher holding weight at 28.5. Did not move module from 29.

[Rat]

Thanks for the response Rat. I may have to invest in a bow vise before I start twisting cables and making my own, (or ordering them to the desired specification). With this amount of decrease in cable length will the resting Brace height come up? any prolonged danger in the added constant compression?

Yes, twisting up the cables will increase the brace height, and slightly increase the draw length. No danger to the limbs unless you get over the rated maximum draw weight.

[Dry Bones]

Gotcha, thank you.

[rocky]

If the bow is modular, you can start by leaving DS At your current setting, then put the 1/2 inch longer module in.
You should be able to get the performance of the additional power force curve, and LESS let-off, but not zero.
If you can shoot this setting comfortably, you can try the 1 full inch longer mod, and leave the DS at the same place, but I don't think you'll be able to peak the power force curve of the full inch, and you will be holding peak weight.
At best, I think with either of these, you will gain 5 to 7 fps if any.

T

Not sure how I missed this thread, but what you found is what I was going to point out.

If you do as Rocky and Enewman have said you will end up with lower draw weight over all; this is due to not letting the cams roll over fully to deflect the limbs.

What you have done illustrated this.

All you need to do now is twist the cables to get the poundage back; and you may need to make slightly shorter cables. I would twist the cables to get the poundage back and then make new cables based on the measurement of the twisted cables. It will be a lot of twisting to get that bow back up to peak draw weight.

You are on the right track, you just need to keep going.

I just pulled a bow off the rack, and tested poundage at 29” 80 percent let off. 69 lbs. Set drawstop to 28.5 and tested, 69 lbs. Both settings shot the exact same speed, just had higher holding weight at 28.5. Did not move module from 29.

At what point in this conversation/ question, have you missed this info?
Rat is wrong about not acquiring peak weight.
I've been doing this type of modification for several years, and ultimately, most shooters simply revert to factory settings for hold.
5 fps is not worth the higher holding weight.
These techno/internet/AT/graphs and chart guys need to actually TEST the questions asked before responding with a "others on different forums agree" answers.
I literally took a bow off the shelf, and adjusted as you asked, and posted the results.
I understand that I didn't test wit EHFOC arrows, as these results might be different.

[Rat]

T



At what point in this conversation/ question, have you missed this info?
Rat is wrong about not acquiring peak weight.
I've been doing this type of modification for several years, and ultimately, most shooters simply revert to factory settings for hold.
5 fps is not worth the higher holding weight.
These techno/internet/AT/graphs and chart guys need to actually TEST the questions asked before responding with a "others on different forums agree" answers.
I literally took a bow off the shelf, and adjusted as you asked, and posted the results.
I understand that I didn't test wit EHFOC arrows, as these results might be different.

Oooookay...

Dry Bones can't simply just move the draw stop, this will shorten the draw length, he has to increase the draw length and then adjust the draw stop. Depending on the cam's draw force curve this may decrease draw weight.

He made the adjustments, and posted his results, I was just trying to tell him how to get the bow back up to poundage based on what he had done. Your test bow is different than his bow, obviously, as the results were different.

I'm not saying I'm always right, but calling me some internet tuning no nothing is a personal affront. I have been tuning, coaching and shooting for 25 years. I'm not a know nothing idiot.

Having said all that, I agree with what you said about the performance gains not being worth the modification. But if Dry Bones wants to learn that for himself I will help him any way I can.

[rocky]

Oooookay...

Dry Bones can't simply just move the draw stop, this will shorten the draw length, he has to increase the draw length and then adjust the draw stop. Depending on the cam's draw force curve this may decrease draw weight.

He made the adjustments, and posted his results, I was just trying to tell him how to get the bow back up to poundage based on what he had done. Your test bow is different than his bow, obviously, as the results were different.

I'm not saying I'm always right, but calling me some internet tuning no nothing is a personal affront. I have been tuning, coaching and shooting for 25 years. I'm not a know nothing idiot.

Having said all that, I agree with what you said about the performance gains not being worth the modification. But if Dry Bones wants to learn that for himself I will help him any way I can.

You might need to read my response better.
If he has a 28 inch draw, I told him to leave the DS at that setting.
I told him to install,(or adjust), the DL MODULE, 1/2 inch longer.
At this point, he will still achieve peak weight, but have a higher holding weight.
At this setting, he should get the benefit of the power force curve of the longer DL setting, and same DL, but with a higher holding weight.
I've tested this for years.
You and others are constantly referring to studies and "tests" done by others, and claiming that knowledge.
Test the questions asked.
I'm no rookie myself.

[enewman]

T



At what point in this conversation/ question, have you missed this info?
Rat is wrong about not acquiring peak weight.
I've been doing this type of modification for several years, and ultimately, most shooters simply revert to factory settings for hold.
5 fps is not worth the higher holding weight.
These techno/internet/AT/graphs and chart guys need to actually TEST the questions asked before responding with a "others on different forums agree" answers.
I literally took a bow off the shelf, and adjusted as you asked, and posted the results.
I understand that I didn't test wit EHFOC arrows, as these results might be different.

Rocky. That chart I posted was a draw curve I did testing efficiency of my m5. I drew the spot asking the op Is this what your talking about. It was for information only. Now I tested what the op is asking but not to the extream he is wanting. I only did it to shorten the draw a little. I did not care for it nor did it improve anything for me.

So I confused as what your getting at.

Thank you

[rocky]

Rocky. That chart I posted was a draw curve I did testing efficiency of my m5. I drew the spot asking the op Is this what your talking about. It was for information only. Now I tested what the op is asking but not to the extream he is wanting. I only did it to shorten the draw a little. I did not care for it nor did it improve anything for me.

So I confused as what your getting at.

Thank you

It can't be confusing unless you don't understand DL.
Set the DRAW-STOP at 28'
Set the DL module at 28.5"
Draw the bow.
Draw length will be 28" but let-off will be lower.
Holding weight will be higher.
You will gain from the longer power force curve of the longer DL, but still have a 28" DL.
Arrow speed will benefit from the longer power force curve.
Once a bow peaks on a DL, and starts into let-off, poundage has been achieved. doesn't matter if let-off is 20 percent, or 80 percent.

[rocky]

Oooookay...

Dry Bones can't simply just move the draw stop, this will shorten the draw length, he has to increase the draw length and then adjust the draw stop. Depending on the cam's draw force curve this may decrease draw weight.

He made the adjustments, and posted his results, I was just trying to tell him how to get the bow back up to poundage based on what he had done. Your test bow is different than his bow, obviously, as the results were different.

I'm not saying I'm always right, but calling me some internet tuning no nothing is a personal affront. I have been tuning, coaching and shooting for 25 years. I'm not a know nothing idiot.

Having said all that, I agree with what you said about the performance gains not being worth the modification. But if Dry Bones wants to learn that for himself I will help him any way I can.

I simply said you were wrong about the bow not achieving peak weight adjusting as I suggested.

[enewman]

It can't be confusing unless you don't understand DL.
Set the DRAW-STOP at 28'
Set the DL module at 28.5"
Draw the bow.
Draw length will be 28" but let-off will be lower.
Holding weight will be higher.
You will gain from the longer power force curve of the longer DL, but still have a 28" DL.
Arrow speed will benefit from the longer power force curve.
Once a bow peaks on a DL, and starts into let-off, poundage has been achieved. doesn't matter if let-off is 20 percent, or 80 percent.

If I remember right this was a big deal a few years ago. Don’t remember which bow. But I think they where doing to change feel. For me I didn’t care for it.