Equipment Guidelines For Trad

[JEFFRO]

RICK, IN #6 what happens when when one of them wheel shooters comes up with a coumpound with cruved limbs and says
"HEY WHY CAN'T I SHOOT" THIS IS A RECURVE JUST ASK THE
BLABLA BLABLA BLA ORIGINATION DEFINITION OF A RECURVE BOW
are ya gona change the rules for them too....
heck the thumb ring has been around for thousands of years, why not let them be used too...
or folks wearing glass's or contact's. thems a magnification device should thay take them off or out before stepin up to the stake.
LOL

JUST SOME FRIDAY HUMOR
have agreat weekend
JEFFRO

[bob sarrels]

I have stayed out of this argument now for several weeks because as a boywer I don't want to turn anyone off, but now I feel it necessary to place my opinion out there.
First off, primitive self bows I feel should not by any stretch be limited to shooting off the knuckle. Shelves have been a part of longbows for many many years. Arvin Weaver makes one of the finest self bows out there and I do not believe he has ever made a bow without a shelf. I could be wrong here but I have seen most of his creations. I understand that Arvin thinks out of the box when it comes to self bows, after all , I think he was the first one to put a bow bolt in one and I feel very sure he was the first to make a 3 piece takedown out of one. (He did that in my shop.)

As far as the stick on rest goes I am tired to the point of having a headach reading all the crap about it. I shoot strictly off the shelf, but, there are bows out there that are definatly not designed to do this. I own several old bows that have 3"of very flat shelf that were not designed to shoot off the shelf. These bows were made many years ago, long before this insane argument began.

If someone wants to use a stick on elevated rest let them do it. ( They will probably beat me either way.) These things have been used a long time. Fred Bear shot off an elevated rest on most of his bows as did Ben Pearson. Were they not "Traditional Archers?" I would really like to hear their input on this. I would also like to see them spinning in their graves over this somewhat trivial argument.

I believe this trivial discourse has gone on far beyond its merit and taken up far too much time on this screen. Can't we move on to something a little more interesting.

A club can make the rules it decides to dictate, and I believe this one was not fairly portrayed in the TBOT rules but good God, come on. Lets all make up and be friends again.

I do not remember writing so long on here and the heartburn continues to rise. Am I sorry if I have offended anyone? No, yes, no, yes. Naw, not really.

[Deb]

Lol, Bob. Arvin has made some bows without shelves. He'll do about anything with them. He just likes making them.

[Mike Javi Cooper]

LOL Bob. I doubt either Fred or Ben ever considered themselves Traditional archers. More than likely they were just archers.

[Van/TX]

I have stayed out of this argument now for several weeks because as a boywer I don't want to turn anyone off, but now I feel it necessary to place my opinion out there.
First off, primitive self bows I feel should not by any stretch be limited to shooting off the knuckle. Shelves have been a part of longbows for many many years. Arvin Weaver makes one of the finest self bows out there and I do not believe he has ever made a bow without a shelf. I could be wrong here but I have seen most of his creations. I understand that Arvin thinks out of the box when it comes to self bows, after all , I think he was the first one to put a bow bolt in one and I feel very sure he was the first to make a 3 piece takedown out of one. (He did that in my shop.)

As far as the stick on rest goes I am tired to the point of having a headach reading all the crap about it. I shoot strictly off the shelf, but, there are bows out there that are definatly not designed to do this. I own several old bows that have 3"of very flat shelf that were not designed to shoot off the shelf. These bows were made many years ago, long before this insane argument began.

If someone wants to use a stick on elevated rest let them do it. ( They will probably beat me either way.) These things have been used a long time. Fred Bear shot off an elevated rest on most of his bows as did Ben Pearson. Were they not "Traditional Archers?" I would really like to hear their input on this. I would also like to see them spinning in their graves over this somewhat trivial argument.

I believe this trivial discourse has gone on far beyond its merit and taken up far too much time on this screen. Can't we move on to something a little more interesting.

A club can make the rules it decides to dictate, and I believe this one was not fairly portrayed in the TBOT rules but good God, come on. Lets all make up and be friends again.

I do not remember writing so long on here and the heartburn continues to rise. Am I sorry if I have offended anyone? No, yes, no, yes. Naw, not really.

Bob I know you are getting old like a lot of us but you need to re-read Rick's rules and you are wrong about Fred Bear and Ben Pearson ...Van

[Van/TX]

I guess I better buy me some wooden shafts... cause I ain't sticking no stabilizer on a longbow... I quit compounds to get rid of all that crap..

Javi, compounds don't come with sights, stabilizers, releases or anything else. I shot compounds for a few years just like I did a recurve, with nothing attached. And I shot wood arrows along with aluminum with that contraption. Point is, it's up to the individual to complicate things. Some folks like it, some folks don't. You evidently didn't like it but it was your choice to use the add on's with the compound.

Traditional Archery is simply no wheels, IMO. Lot of folks don't think that way and that's ok. I've been shooting bows for 60 years. I'm still learning...Van

[Van/TX]

LOL Bob. I doubt either Fred or Ben ever considered themselves Traditional archers. More than likely they were just archers.

Exactly. I now agree with Javi The word "Traditional" as it applies to archery was not invented until after the compound became popular in the 70's. Every compound archer today knows what the word "Traditional" means. Unfortunately not a whole lot of traditional archers anymore know what it means? Again, just my thoughts...Van

[Mike Javi Cooper]

Javi, compounds don't come with sights, stabilizers, releases or anything else. I shot compounds for a few years just like I did a recurve, with nothing attached. And I shot wood arrows along with aluminum with that contraption. Point is, it's up to the individual to complicate things. Some folks like it, some folks don't. You evidently didn't like it but it was your choice to use the add on's with the compound.

Traditional Archery is simply no wheels, IMO. Lot of folks don't think that way and that's ok. I've been shooting bows for 60 years. I'm still learning...Van

I didn't start out with all the gadgets on my compound either, the first one was a wooden Bear and I shot it barebow (still got it) but like most folks gradually I started putting stuff on the bow to score better and yes I did score better with it.. Did I like it, yes at the time I did. But as time went by and I grew older I found myself liking it less and less, until finally last year health and circumstances made me rethink the importance of competition and all the gadgets.. Consider me like an ex-smoker who can’t stand the smell of a cigarette, I just don’t like the smell of gadgets. Oh and I’m just a kid compared to you, I’ve only been shooting a bow for 52 years come November… and I'm still learning as well..

[RickBarbee]

Yep, the Traditional term came about shortly after the compound hit the scene, and was simply a term to describe the difference between stickbow shooters, and compound shooters.

The problem is as Van said - Traditional (where it pertains to archery, and bowhunting) has been twisted, and morphed into a completely different definition than what it's original intent was, and many (not all) newer age Trad shooters really have no idea what it was originally.

Bob - the primitive (selfbow) class allows for shooting off the shelf, or off the knuckle, depending on the bow, but does not allow any type of elevated rest.

I have a headache too Brother, and this for me isn't an argument. It is an attempt to
better serve the Trad community as a whole, instead of just in part, and is something I have been thinking on, and working on for a couple of years now. The last 4 months I have worked on it a lot, and have requested, and had input from experienced Traditional Archers, and Bowhunters from across the Nation. Several of us have agonized over how to do this to come up with something that would be fair for all while not ostracizing anyone who shoots a stickbow. If it don't have cables, and wheels on it, it is a stickbow.

Jeffro - I remember reading somewhere where (I believe it was FITA, but not sure) where the recurve limbed compound had been officially approved as a recurve bow.
I doubt that's gonna happen here LOL.
We all know what a compound is. 8^)

Hmmmmm - thumb rings? Yep they been around for thousands of years, but are a (be it ever so simple) mechanical release.

Rick

[Mike Javi Cooper]

Ok, I'm done with it...

I've expressed my opinion and had some fun with the whole thing.. but the truth is I will never compete again so it doesn't really matter what I think.. My grandkids can make their choice when the time comes, as to how they want to pursue archery. I'd like for some semblance of the sport I grew up with be available to them. But if folks want to add rests, stabilizers and stuff to longbows and wooden recurves then so be it.. I'll go quietly.... but if it comes to a vote, I’ll vote against the gadgets..

Now back to Rick rewriting the rules...

[moah]

Ok I cant stand this anymore Rick the last 4 TBoT shoots I,ve been a part of I have seen a total of 3 souped up target bows, only 1 of those had a flipper rest and a plunger thats out of a 125 card average at 3 of those shoots I have seen 1 person with a stick on rest. Im sorry if it's going to make all 4 of them mad but TBoT's main goal at these shoots is for everyone to have fun and the rules your drawing up are more in the line of a ASA shoot for prize money, and that is not a fun family shoot. at Denton,Holliday,Muenster and Hill Country we have had the largest turnout in TBoT history. so in our thinking many sound minded people believe that we are doing something right. K.I.S.S. as Rubydog said.

[RickBarbee]

Ok, I'm done with it...

I've expressed my opinion and had some fun with the whole thing.. but the truth is I will never compete again so it doesn't really matter what I think.. My grandkids can make their choice when the time comes, as to how they want to pursue archery. I'd like for some semblance of the sport I grew up with be available to them. But if folks want to add rests, stabilizers and stuff to longbows and wooden recurves then so be it.. I'll go quietly.... but if it comes to a vote, I’ll vote against the gadgets..

Now back to Rick rewriting the rules...

JAVI,

I don't see where you can conclude that this will take away anything from anyone.

What it is actually doing is broadening it so everyone has a chance to choose their style, and compete within a class that compliments that style so that the playing field is as fair, and level as possible, but without turning away, and turning our backs on other stickbow shooters who happen to want to use a different style than We/I do.

Sure - we can't make a class for every little change in equipment, and hard lines have to be drawn between the classes.
The thing I see with this guideline, and rule set is it does just that, and only has to add one class to accomplish it.

I don't claim my ideas, or views to be perfect, and that is why I posted this for discussion.
We need input that will lead to a good solid format, that will not be so exclusive to many of the other Trad shooters.

Theres a whole genre of those later mentioned, that we never see, because they aren't accepted as Trad, even though they are, and they would be a huge advantageous boost to the Trad community (especially our youths) if they were allowed to participate with us.

I have nothing against compound bows, or those who shoot them, but it is an uphill battle for the Trad community to instill enough interest in "Traditional" for our youth to get many of them to take it up.
Most of our youth go with the compound for various reasons.
Broadening our horizons will help generate that interest.

I would love to see the organization I love (TBoT) take the initiative to set this precedence.

Rick

[meangene1969]

I have not responded to any of this argument and still will not give an opinion other than TBoT is having a record year in all classes. More men, women and kids have shot this year at TBoT than any other time in it's history so they must be doing something correct.

[fletcherfor2]

the last 4 TBoT shoots I,ve been a part of I have seen a total of 3 souped up target bows, only 1 of those had a flipper rest and a plunger

Agreed. You'd think there were throngs of elevated rest, flipper, springy, plunger Trad 3D shooters out there, but I don't ever see them either. Only the same few. And I've never seen a single one with a stabilizer at a 3D shoot. This really is much ado about nothing.

[RickBarbee]

Ok I cant stand this anymore Rick the last 4 TBoT shoots I,ve been a part of I have seen a total of 3 souped up target bows, only 1 of those had a flipper rest and a plunger thats out of a 125 card average at 3 of those shoots I have seen 1 person with a stick on rest. Im sorry if it's going to make all 4 of them mad but TBoT's main goal at these shoots is for everyone to have fun and the rules your drawing up are more in the line of a ASA shoot for prize money, and that is not a fun family shoot. at Denton,Holliday,Muenster and Hill Country we have had the largest turnout in TBoT history. so in our thinking many sound minded people believe that we are doing something right. K.I.S.S. as Rubydog said.

Sorry Bro, but I don't agree.
I understand, but I don't agree,

because

What the K.I.S.S format is doing is forcing folks to do it "Your" way, and allowing an exclusionary attitude among the Trad Community to be enforced.
K.I.S.S. is great. I like it too, but I don't want to force it on anyone who don't want it.

I've been researching this, and talking to folks about it for a long time now. Actually for many years, and long before I ever decided to try to make a change.

I also know my presentation of this could very easily lead to me being pretty unpopular among the so called "Traditional Shooters"
Que Sera' Sera'.

There are lots more of the souped up bow shooters out there than you realize, and the reason you don't see them at the shoots is, because this exclusionary attitude has been prevalent for long enough now, that most of those folks know they aren't accepted before hand, so they stay home.

The truth is - this attitude has divided us, and it may take a long time before those souped up bow shooters get over being excluded.

It's as simple as that.

Rick