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Old 04-12-2017, 04:47 PM   #601
J Sweet
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Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
No you're not. It is interesting that a pilots wife seems to understand more about how the news media handles stories better than some on here though.

It has been mentioned that the passenger had already been escorted off the plane once before, and then ran back onto the plane, BEFORE the video piece that is being shown in the news. I guess the real truth will all come out at some point, and the "news" will still be guilty of sensationalism.
Im kidding about the sammich thing. I am not kidding about her having nothing more than a little anecdotal testimony to offer. She just states something that you agree with, doesn't make it accurate.

What makes her an expert? She hears stories from her husband and his friends?

Ill leave it at this as Im not down to getting into heated arguments about this. It comes down to opinion. Your opinion is he got what he deserves. My opinion is that civil liberties in this country are being eroded and that the airline and the LE were dead wrong and Im sick of seeing the erosion. My opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

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Old 04-12-2017, 04:53 PM   #602
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im kidding about the sammich thing. I am not kidding about her having nothing more than a little anecdotal testimony to offer. She just states something that you agree with, doesn't make it accurate.

What makes her an expert? She hears stories from her husband and his friends?

Ill leave it at this as im not down to getting into heated arguments about this. It comes down to opinion. Your opinion is he got what he deserves. My opinion is that civil liberties in this country are being eroded and that the airline and the le were dead wrong and im sick of seeing the erosion. My opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
exactly
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:54 PM   #603
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Originally Posted by J Sweet View Post
Im kidding about the sammich thing. I am not kidding about her having nothing more than a little anecdotal testimony to offer. She just states something that you agree with, doesn't make it accurate.

What makes her an expert? She hears stories from her husband and his friends?

Ill leave it at this as Im not down to getting into heated arguments about this. It comes down to opinion. Your opinion is he got what he deserves. My opinion is that civil liberties in this country are being eroded and that the airline and the LE were dead wrong and Im sick of seeing the erosion. My opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
Airline protocol and civil liberties have absolutely nothing to do with each other. The constitution mentions nothing about the right to fly. Nice try though.
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:55 PM   #604
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"Technically"? Lol...and we should take you at your word on what you will make? Can I borrow your time machine? I need to get some winning lotto numbers.
You don't need a time machine...just to understand airline & financial markets a lil better i never said take my word for anything....educate youself before you spew....OR ...talk in generalities, even when asked for specifics.....yaaawwnn!!

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Old 04-12-2017, 04:58 PM   #605
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Airline protocol and civil liberties have absolutely nothing to do with each other. The constitution mentions nothing about the right to fly. Nice try though.
My civil liberties exist EVERYWHERE I go Ironman. The government might **** all over them every chance they get and in an airport is the most obvious example of that but no corporation or govt is allowed to bash a human being's head open without that person first enacting violence on someone else. Now if he had been at some point criminally trespassing because he wasn't allowed by law to be on that flight than they could of restrained him and removed him without doing what they did. The airline and the govt infringed on his civil liberties and Im sick of it. Im glad he did what he did and I hope people start doing more of this to let them know its not ok.
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:58 PM   #606
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Great read. Thanks! Pretty much heard the same thing from my sister who is a flight attendant.
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:59 PM   #607
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Airline protocol and civil liberties have absolutely nothing to do with each other. The constitution mentions nothing about the right to fly. Nice try though.
Exactly. He wasn't forcefully removed because he wouldn't give up the seat, he was removed when he became a threat by being belligerent and combative. He was removed by security not UA personnel. They dont pick and choose who goes, its computer generated. And no I'm not going by the wife story posted, I have a friend who is a pilot. Said this whole story is so twisted its not even funny.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:03 PM   #608
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My civil liberties exist EVERYWHERE I go Ironman. The government might **** all over them every chance they get and in an airport is the most obvious example of that but no corporation or govt is allowed to bash a human being's head open without that person first enacting violence on someone else. Now if he had been at some point criminally trespassing because he wasn't allowed by law to be on that flight than they could of restrained him and removed him without doing what they did. The airline and the govt infringed on his civil liberties and Im sick of it. Im glad he did what he did and I hope people start doing more of this to let them know its not ok.
Technically, if the Good Doc did in fact leave the airplane and exit the jetway into the waiting area, then dashed back down the jetway and back onto the plane, he was trespassing in a restricted area. At that point he is then considered a threat to the safety and well being of the crew and passengers still on the airplane.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:03 PM   #609
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Great read. Thanks! Pretty much heard the same thing from my sister who is a flight attendant.
I'm a rec pilot myself with many friends in the airline industry (pilots/attendants). Figured there was a second side to the story...
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:04 PM   #610
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My civil liberties exist EVERYWHERE I go Ironman. The government might **** all over them every chance they get and in an airport is the most obvious example of that but no corporation or govt is allowed to bash a human being's head open without that person first enacting violence on someone else. Now if he had been at some point criminally trespassing because he wasn't allowed by law to be on that flight than they could of restrained him and removed him without doing what they did. The airline and the govt infringed on his civil liberties and Im sick of it. Im glad he did what he did and I hope people start doing more of this to let them know its not ok.
You obviously missed the part where he was ALREADY removed from the plane, and THEN he ran back on. It was after that happened that the video started. The "news" isn't mentioning that, but I guess you can believe what they tell you. In other words, yes, he was criminally trespassing.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:06 PM   #611
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Originally Posted by str8shooter View Post
Technically, if the Good Doc did in fact leave the airplane and exit the jetway into the waiting area, then dashed back down the jetway and back onto the plane, he was trespassing in a restricted area. At that point he is then considered a threat to the safety and well being of the crew and passengers still on the airplane.
But that's not why he was originally removed via a skull drag. I don't argue that the guy seems to have a shady past and by all account is a bad person or that his running around like he did doesn't show he might be a bit crazy. My issue is how the corporation handled this and how the LE handled this. The invisible hand of the market has also decided the same.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:07 PM   #612
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You obviously missed the part where he was ALREADY removed from the plane, and THEN he ran back on. It was after that happened that the video started. The "news" isn't mentioning that, but I guess you can believe what they tell you. In other words, yes, he was criminally trespassing.

He ran back on bloodied after the incident. You got proof otherwise lets have it. Oh and not some random pilots wife's anecdotal testimony please.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:10 PM   #613
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He ran back on bloodied after the incident. You got proof otherwise lets have it. Oh and not some random pilots wife's anecdotal testimony please.
No,no. He had already been removed prior to the video ever being started. Many passengers have already stated this. The bloody face part was his third boarding.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:13 PM   #614
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No,no. He had already been removed prior to the video ever being started. Many passengers have already stated this. The bloody face part was his third boarding.
Here is the timeline in the news and that the majority of people state to include the airlines not disputing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a55ccbf5c1b5

"Many passengers" not sure where you are getting this from.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:14 PM   #615
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J Sweet, like I've said before, what is missing here is about 10-20 of interactions between the passenger, the flight crew and the security staff. We don't know what happened prior to the "Drop and Drag". What is starting to come clearer as more facts are known is that at some point the passenger did in fact leave the plane without incident. He was more than likely going to be placed on another flight and pocket some cash to boot. Then, he apparently, from some reports, ran back down the jetway and back onto the plane. That's where the passenger crossed the line and therefore escalated the event because at that point he was conceivably trespassing and posed a threat to the other passengers and crew still on the plane. But, like I said, we don't know what happened in those 10-20 minutes prior to the "Drop and Drag" so all this bickering about who's right and who's wrong is rather pointless. Very amusing, but pointless.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:15 PM   #616
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Here is the timeline in the news and that the majority of people state to include the airlines not disputing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a55ccbf5c1b5

"Many passengers" not sure where you are getting this from.
From fantasy land
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:16 PM   #617
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Timeline in the news. Well then, there it is.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:16 PM   #618
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J Sweet, like I've said before, what is missing here is about 10-20 of interactions between the passenger, the flight crew and the security staff. We don't know what happened prior to the "Drop and Drag". What is starting to come clearer as more facts are known is that at some point the passenger did in fact leave the plane without incident. He was more than likely going to be placed on another flight and pocket some cash to boot. Then, he apparently, from some reports, ran back down the jetway and back onto the plane. That's where the passenger crossed the line and therefore escalated the event because at that point he was conceivably trespassing and posed a threat to the other passengers and crew still on the plane. But, like I said, we don't know what happened in those 10-20 minutes prior to the "Drop and Drag" so all this bickering about who's right and who's wrong is rather pointless. Very amusing, but pointless.
Okay, even if we agree that all these things happened what happened to the man is unacceptable. His head was bashed open for what?
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:26 PM   #619
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Okay, even if we agree that all these things happened what happened to the man is unacceptable. His head was bashed open for what?
His mouth hit the armrest, they didn't stomp his head in

I see that the media sensationalism has worked with you.

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Old 04-12-2017, 05:27 PM   #620
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I didn't see anyone "bash his head open". I saw a man struggling with three security officers and at one point during the struggle, the man hit his face on the arm rest of the seat across the aisle. It did not look like any of the officers intentionally "bashed his head" on the arm rest.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:31 PM   #621
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[quote=J Sweet;12350840]Okay, even if we agree that all these things happened what happened to the man is unacceptable. His head was bashed open for what?[/QUOTE]

Resisting authority. Plain and simple. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:58 PM   #622
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Okay, even if we agree that all these things happened what happened to the man is unacceptable. His head was bashed open for what?
Probably mid 7 figures. Wish it would have been me
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:43 PM   #623
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I didn't see anyone "bash his head open". I saw a man struggling with three security officers and at one point during the struggle, the man hit his face on the arm rest of the seat across the aisle. It did not look like any of the officers intentionally "bashed his head" on the arm rest.


He did it to himself. Ok lol.


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Old 04-12-2017, 06:44 PM   #624
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His mouth hit the armrest, they didn't stomp his head in

I see that the media sensationalism has worked with you.


His mouth is part of his head right? He fell or what? He did it to himself. Self inflicted haha


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Old 04-12-2017, 06:47 PM   #625
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[quote=bowhuntertex;12350887]
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Sweet View Post
Okay, even if we agree that all these things happened what happened to the man is unacceptable. His head was bashed open for what?[/QUOTE]



Resisting authority. Plain and simple. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.


Oh hes winning the big cash prize. Meanwhile the other two cops are now suspended.


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Old 04-12-2017, 06:50 PM   #626
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He did it to himself. Ok lol.


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Technically speaking.......
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:55 PM   #627
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All right yall. I like yall to much to continue on, we are to far apart on this one lol. Im 99 percent simpatico with most of yall on issues but this one we are on different sides for sure.


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Old 04-12-2017, 07:09 PM   #628
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Fn united. So 4:45 LAX to IAH showed 5 seats in e-plus but they we calling it sold out. I took first place standbye and left the club to go around to the gate, good 3/4 mile. 15 min before board time and everybody is lined up, seats are all full and they are calling volunteers. Back to club and find out my original flight is delayed. Now landing after midnight. Bartender, another vodka tonic please!


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Old 04-12-2017, 07:33 PM   #629
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Obviously peeps are entrenched in their position after seeing the video. This is a perfect example of jumping to a conclusion from just watching a video.

On first take, it seems outrages that a paying customer had his head bounced of an arm rest before being dragged off a plane.

Can we just wait for more facts before we argue like we know exactly what the circumstances that lead to the "bumper car" head to arm rest incident??
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:24 PM   #630
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[quote=J Sweet;12351091]
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Oh hes winning the big cash prize. Meanwhile the other two cops are now suspended.


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he hasn't won a cash prize yet. and he very well may get paid, but that doesn't excuse him from acting like an ***.

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Old 04-12-2017, 08:27 PM   #631
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13 pages?!
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:31 PM   #632
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No you're not. It is interesting that a pilots wife seems to understand more about how the news media handles stories better than some on here though.

It has been mentioned that the passenger had already been escorted off the plane once before, and then ran back onto the plane, BEFORE the video piece that is being shown in the news. I guess the real truth will all come out at some point, and the "news" will still be guilty of sensationalism.
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Originally Posted by str8shooter View Post
Great read. Thanks! Pretty much heard the same thing from my sister who is a flight attendant.

Since you guys are experts... according to NYT the CEO admitted the flight was NOT oversold. Does the denied boarding rules still apply?

Quote:
In Tuesday's New York Times story on the fracas, United's CEO acknowledged, this was not technically an overbooked flight. And the reason for that equivocation is also clear. The four airline employees who needed the seats, presented themselves to the gate agent after the flight was boarded. Further, they were not fare-paying passengers, therefore not "booked."
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:45 PM   #633
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Some of these guys must work for the media the way they are playing up this guys "beating"...

Maybe they've never seen a real "beating".
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:00 PM   #634
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Some of these guys must work for the media the way they are playing up this guys "beating"...

Maybe they've never seen a real "beating".
Lol! I get a bloody lip sometimes just holding one of the grand babies.
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:25 PM   #635
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Lol! I get a bloody lip sometimes just holding one of the grand babies.
I would sue! Your civil liberties have been trampled !
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:28 PM   #636
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Figured they would of dropped the Dr. prefix after the guy got caught trading drugs for gay sex. I'm really surprised there aren't more Black Lives Matter supporters around here. Let's put the blame on everyone except the person that is to blame. And we'll blame everyone basing the situation off of incomplete and skewed facts.


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Old 04-12-2017, 09:56 PM   #637
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Some of these guys must work for the media the way they are playing up this guys "beating"...

Maybe they've never seen a real "beating".
Lol yeah & living in glass houses...principaled in deer lease &_____ethics...but a grown *** man throws a tantrum because he feels like it & is in violation of a contract he entered into freely & they burn up a keyboard in his defense....any wagers on when we'll see the 1st go fund me link these guys create for'm?
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:54 PM   #638
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Ok my first post on this thread and almost a million mile member of Untited. Dude didn't act like an adult in the situation at hand. .and there are those types, But I think United needs to rethink they're policy once it comes down to this situation. That is all. (Drops phone)

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Old 04-12-2017, 11:08 PM   #639
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Lol yeah & living in glass houses...principaled in deer lease &_____ethics...but a grown *** man throws a tantrum because he feels like it & is in violation of a contract he entered into freely & they burn up a keyboard in his defense....any wagers on when we'll see the 1st go fund me link these guys create for'm?
Contract lawyer is back. I thought United violated their contract by not following protocol. Don't they have to provide a written explanation to the bumped passenger- Before Boarding?
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:20 PM   #640
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Contract lawyer is back. I thought United violated their contract by not following protocol. Don't they have to provide a written explanation to the bumped passenger- Before Boarding?
Lol no lawyer...just knowledgeable in what i engage in..you know...what grown *** adults should be.

To my knowledge...they do not...i know there is some documentation that suggests they do...but when bumped...i (nor any peers/employees i know of) in 20 yrs of business travel have EVER been provided documentation, asked to sign documentation or anything else besides being verbally informed; the exception would be years ago accepting written vouchers for flights, meals, hotels, change of carrier, etc (pre-electronic voucher days)..course...never threw a tantrum either as most i know are informed of the risk they take...before they take it

In some instances the overbooking was never "caught" until a passenger is seated & another passenger shows up with a boarding pass for the exact same seat or a passenger has a boarding pass for a seat that doesn't exist...as i said previously...this ususally occurs when assets are swapped out b/c of maintenance issues shortly before flight time & the alternative asset has a different seat configuration than the "planned" asset that seats were sold on/for

practical fact is...because of the contractual language one agrees to when purchasing a flight...the only real recourse/oppty one has for compensation is maintenace related issues...weather, air traffic, critters on the runway, ice, et.al...you're SOL & it's simply the joys of air travel

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Old 04-12-2017, 11:25 PM   #641
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Default Passenger forcible removed from flight

.


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Old 04-12-2017, 11:26 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by GBM View Post
I've been quite surprised as well reading this thread...
I don't think they are anti police, there comes a time when you have to stand up to what you believe is right. I have a million miles flying and I have never read the contract before or after buying a ticket. They may be right in being able to ask you to leave, however, if someone puts his hands on me and provokes me, I too would have become irate. I may have been arrested but rest assured I would stand for what I believe is right. Sometime you just don't do as your told, especially when you paid your fare and are already seated. Sometimes you have to be a man and take the good with the bad.
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:31 PM   #643
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I will say, some of the jokes and cartoons posted are pretty funny and seeing the one of Negan made me laugh out loud.
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:37 PM   #644
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Originally Posted by RodinaRanč View Post
Lol no lawyer...just knowledgeable in what i engage in..you know...what grown *** adults should be.

To my knowledge...they do not...i know there is some documentation that suggests they do...but when bumped...i (nor any peers/employees i know of) in 20 yrs of business travel have EVER been provided documentation, asked to sign documentation or anything else besides being verbally informed; the exception would be years ago accepting written vouchers for flights, meals, hotels, change of carrier, etc (pre-electronic voucher days)..course...never threw a tantrum either as most i know are informed of the risk they take...before they take it

In some instances the overbooking was never "caught" until a passenger is seated & another passenger shows up with a boarding pass for the exact same seat...as i said previously...this ususally occurs when assets are swapped out b/c of maintenance issues shortly before flight time & the alternative asset has a different seat configuration than the "planned" asset that seats were sold
Lol, just giving you a hard time. But I'm not sure that most know they can be bumped- involuntarily. I've flown a couple dozen times over the years and had not heard that or read the contract. I've seen the airlines ask for volunteers and offer incentives. But never force someone to take the offer
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:46 PM   #645
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Originally Posted by LWC View Post
Lol, just giving you a hard time. But I'm not sure that most know they can be bumped- involuntarily. I've flown a couple dozen times over the years and had not heard that or read the contract. I've seen the airlines ask for volunteers and offer incentives. But never force someone to take the offer
Bumping is a last resort & most times people will take what's offered...if there's a special event going on in the destination city...the offer is usually higher...airlines are not out to make folks miserable....but they are out to be profitable...As big as most are...almost all have a bean counter running a PnL on each flight...the business is that cut throat/competitive

Last edited by RodinaRanč; 04-12-2017 at 11:52 PM..
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:50 AM   #646
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I'm surprised honestly that THIS is the story that says an airline acted poorly. On my flight to and from China on American Airlines, I was embarassed as an American how the flight attendants treated the Chinese passengers. Never saw that kind of totally unhidden disdain to do your job (given its a service position) specifically with certain customers. It wasn't like it was the same flight attendants either, just both sets were incredibly rude to the Chinese passengers.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:23 AM   #647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodinaRanč View Post
Lol no lawyer...just knowledgeable in what i engage in..you know...what grown *** adults should be.

To my knowledge...they do not...i know there is some documentation that suggests they do...but when bumped...i (nor any peers/employees i know of) in 20 yrs of business travel have EVER been provided documentation, asked to sign documentation or anything else besides being verbally informed; the exception would be years ago accepting written vouchers for flights, meals, hotels, change of carrier, etc (pre-electronic voucher days)..course...never threw a tantrum either as most i know are informed of the risk they take...before they take it

In some instances the overbooking was never "caught" until a passenger is seated & another passenger shows up with a boarding pass for the exact same seat or a passenger has a boarding pass for a seat that doesn't exist...as i said previously...this ususally occurs when assets are swapped out b/c of maintenance issues shortly before flight time & the alternative asset has a different seat configuration than the "planned" asset that seats were sold on/for

practical fact is...because of the contractual language one agrees to when purchasing a flight...the only real recourse/oppty one has for compensation is maintenace related issues...weather, air traffic, critters on the runway, ice, et.al...you're SOL & it's simply the joys of air travel
well just because they dont doesnt mean they dont have the legal obligation. Just because you have traveled for 20 years mean you are right. And...heres the proof
Quote:
Involuntary Bumping

DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't. Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash. The amount depends on the price of their ticket and the length of the delay:
https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:53 AM   #648
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Originally Posted by RodinaRanč View Post
Lol yeah & living in glass houses...principaled in deer lease &_____ethics...but a grown *** man throws a tantrum because he feels like it & is in violation of a contract he entered into freely & they burn up a keyboard in his defense....any wagers on when we'll see the 1st go fund me link these guys create for'm?
You should probably avoid wagers... your track record is not very good.
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Old 04-13-2017, 06:39 AM   #649
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Originally Posted by RodinaRan View Post
You prolly oughta read slower/closer, but you're welcomed/encouraged to show me specifcs where i have been on this. Who the hell can know a $ for certain besides UAL...you & other talking heads? How in the hell could you/they possibly know? Good gravy charlie brown


Sure, you are probably right. Peanuts probably increased in price so much in this last week that it cost united $1 billion.

Wait, no, I bought peanuts at the store the other day they weren't anymore expensive.

The billion dollars must've been because some dude was dragged off the plane.

Most of us don't need United to tell us where these losses are coming from, lol
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Old 04-13-2017, 06:42 AM   #650
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Originally Posted by bowhuntertex View Post
Only time will tell what really happened. I am sure the other passengers are not allowed to say anything at this point on what they saw except to law enforcement.


Lol, Who is going to stop them?
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