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Old 02-02-2018, 01:38 PM   #1
1shotmedic
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Angry Diminished Value Claim

Good afternoon everyone,

Long read and for that I do apologize. I purchased a new Toyota Tundra 4x4 as a Christmas gift for myself. On January 16, the day Houston froze over, I was involved in an accident that shut down I-45 North in Conroe. I was vehicle #4 in a 4-car accident, and was not at fault. I immediately contacted my insurance company and filed a claim for the accident. My vehicle is currently being repaired by my insurance company, but will be a lengthy repair due to lack of availability of replacement parts at this time.

I have yet to make the first payment on my new truck, and I am wanting to file a 'Diminished Value Claim' for the obvious loss of resale value for my now permanently damaged new truck. The pre-accident value is obvious due to the fact that it is less than 6 wks old, has approx. 1000 miles on it, and in perfect shape.

Has anyone on the GS ever filed for a DimVal claim? If so, which company would you recommend? Were you successful in recovering an adequate amount for your loss of value? What obstacles did you encounter? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Attached are pics of before and after. My baby is hurt and I am really tick'd off!!!

Thanks for reading!
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:00 PM   #2
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I'm trying to understand, you weren't at fault but your insurance company is paying for it?

I filed a DVC several years ago on a new truck. I was hit and the other guy was found at fault. I filed the claim with his insurance company and it was the usual battle......Unless its changed, I believe they have up to 2 yrs to settle the claim. I ended up with about $3k(prolly could have ended up with more but didn't feel like dragging it out).
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:14 PM   #3
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Did air bags deploy? Does it have frame damage?
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:21 PM   #4
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I doubt your own auto policy allows for a diminished value claim. You'll need to make it against one of the other drivers that was at fault.
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:26 PM   #5
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If the geometrics and drive ability were not compromised from the accident, I wouldn't automatically assume there would be a diminished value? Unless of course your vehicle was not repaired back to a pre-loss condition? has your insurance paid off on the claim? If so you can have a car fax pulled, see what it says and move from there.
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:34 PM   #6
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I successfully obtained a settlement on a DV claim.

You need to hire a DV appraiser. He will ask questions about your truck and maybe take pictures. You pay him a couple hundred dollars out of pocket and he will provide a report detailing your DV based on comparable vehicles in your area. You then submit this report to the at-fault drivers insurance company.

In my case, they tried to lowball me with their appraisers report. We negotiated for a while and I got nowhere. Eventually I drafted a complaint letter to the head honcho at the
Texas Insurance Board (forgot the name of the agency that oversees insurance). Before sending the complaint I sent a copy of it to the insurance company and told them to pay my claim or I would send my complaint to the proper authority. Shortly thereafter I was contacted by the superior of the person who I'd dealt with and they paid my claim.

Because your truck is virtually new, you likely have a very large claim (many thousands of dollars).
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bow_Tech_Body_Man View Post
If the geometrics and drive ability were not compromised from the accident, I wouldn't automatically assume there would be a diminished value? Unless of course your vehicle was not repaired back to a pre-loss condition? has your insurance paid off on the claim? If so you can have a car fax pulled, see what it says and move from there.
In the current day of Carfax any vehicle that has been wrecked has diminished value if I am the buyer.
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:39 PM   #8
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Even if it is repaired to drive and appear like new, you will still have a significant diminishment in value. But you will only realize that loss if you sell before it gets a lot of miles. Once the vehicle is older with many miles, prior collision repairs do not affect the value much, if any. If you settle the claim and get some money but also keep the truck a long time its as if you got a free paycheck.
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txhuntr2 View Post
I successfully obtained a settlement on a DV claim.

You need to hire a DV appraiser. He will ask questions about your truck and maybe take pictures. You pay him a couple hundred dollars out of pocket and he will provide a report detailing your DV based on comparable vehicles in your area. You then submit this report to the at-fault drivers insurance company.

In my case, they tried to lowball me with their appraisers report. We negotiated for a while and I got nowhere. Eventually I drafted a complaint letter to the head honcho at the
Texas Insurance Board (forgot the name of the agency that oversees insurance). Before sending the complaint I sent a copy of it to the insurance company and told them to pay my claim or I would send my complaint to the proper authority. Shortly thereafter I was contacted by the superior of the person who I'd dealt with and they paid my claim.

Because your truck is virtually new, you likely have a very large claim (many thousands of dollars).
This sounds like good advice and not the first time I've heard of doing a DV claim this way.
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Old 02-02-2018, 03:11 PM   #10
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Thanks for replies so far

Yes, my insurance is fixing my vehicle, then will enter into subrogation with at-fault party for settlement. Problem is at-fault party had Texas minimum coverage with $25k limit per loss. That means 3 drivers are fighting for $25k of funds, and my repair costs are already at $17K. I have big name insurance and the at-fault driver has a fly-by-night company. Let me company fix my vehicle, then let them go after other insurance company for reimbursement.

No airbag deployment, no frame damage.

This was going to be my "drive til the wheels fall off" truck, just like my old Ford. My concern now is ghost gripes in the wiring system since the major component on backorder is the wiring harness. With new it should be good, but a lot of the wires got stretched and broken so tech is replacing the whole thing.

Txhuntr2, that is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I have read several articles and feedback from "AUTOLOSS", who specifically do DVC claims assessments. I have no issues with paying the fees, and will pursue as you suggest. A few of the other feedback articles stated that they, also, sought the assistance of the Insurance Commissioner, and were satisfied with the settlement received. I would suspect that, as you state, my settlement would be several thousand, and that is what I am seeking in my claim.

Thank you all for the info provided thus far, and would greatly appreciate continued advice from others.
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantcatch5 View Post
In the current day of Carfax any vehicle that has been wrecked has diminished value if I am the buyer.
My point was,....Cantcatch5, In the current day of quality Auto body repair, if bags don't deploy, and the frame or any geometric component was not damaged? There is a good possibility the vehicle would not come back with a dirty Fax? It doesn't seem to matter what the price tag was for repairs. I'm not saying that is always the case, but I see it everyday.
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Old 02-02-2018, 05:26 PM   #12
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I was hit from behind two years ago. I made the call to the other drivers insurance about DV. Texas currently does not mandate this. Of course they did not want to pay, but I had to remind them since it was their fault and would he buy a vehicle for his wife or daughter for listed price if he found out the vehicle was in a significant accident. Silence. after significant discussion we reached an agreement. I did quite a bit of searching car used for sale websites to determine what my vehicle was worth as a used car vs a used car with a wreck. Good luck. Long process
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Old 02-02-2018, 05:58 PM   #13
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TDI's position statement on Diminished Value indicates it is not recoverable on 1st party coverage (comp, collision on YOUR policy), but it is on 3rd party coverage (Other person's property damage coverage, your UM/UIM). Unless your carrier is paying under UM coverage, and with the PD limit issue on the other person's coverage, I don't see where you can recover a DV claim in this case. Maybe I missed something? At any rate, one of the DV evaluation companies can provide you with some ammo to use when negotiating a DV claim.

Stu
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:06 PM   #14
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Since you have several people already commenting on the DV claim, I'm just wondering how you could be the 4th vehicle in the accident, with front end damage, and no be at fault? Lack of rear end damage, it doesn't appear you were pushed into the vehicle ahead. You certainly don't owe me any explanation but if you were willing to explain what happened I would be interested in the story!
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:36 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by kae006 View Post
Since you have several people already commenting on the DV claim, I'm just wondering how you could be the 4th vehicle in the accident, with front end damage, and no be at fault? Lack of rear end damage, it doesn't appear you were pushed into the vehicle ahead. You certainly don't owe me any explanation but if you were willing to explain what happened I would be interested in the story!
It's a myth that the vehicle who hit someone else is always at fault.
In the OP's accident Im really surprised anyone was held at fault because of the weather at the time.
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cottonfish View Post
TDI's position statement on Diminished Value indicates it is not recoverable on 1st party coverage (comp, collision on YOUR policy), but it is on 3rd party coverage (Other person's property damage coverage, your UM/UIM). Unless your carrier is paying under UM coverage, and with the PD limit issue on the other person's coverage, I don't see where you can recover a DV claim in this case. Maybe I missed something? At any rate, one of the DV evaluation companies can provide you with some ammo to use when negotiating a DV claim.

Stu
Stu is right about 1st party claims.

however it sounds like the at fault driver may be under insured.

but I'll defer to his superior knowledge when it comes to these car things....
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flywise View Post
It's a myth that the vehicle who hit someone else is always at fault.
In the OP's accident Im really surprised anyone was held at fault because of the weather at the time.
The weather wasn't at fault; some driver was.
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Old 02-02-2018, 07:04 PM   #18
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The weather wasn't at fault; some driver was.
I said I was surprised anyone was at fault , not that the weather was at fault.
Probably the same day of the OP's accident we had several in Cedar park as well. The ice formed instantly, with out warning.
It was impossible to see and when I got out of my fire truck thinking I was stepping onto dry ground I suddenly looked like a really bad ice skater. No one is at fault in that situation in my opinion
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Old 02-19-2018, 09:22 PM   #19
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The third vehicle involved - the one that struck me - was a flatbed truck. This truck is 4 times as long as it is wide. So, when he did a 180 on the freeway, he struck me as he came around. I, in no uncertain terms, ran into him. Clear enough?
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cottonfish View Post
TDI's position statement on Diminished Value indicates it is not recoverable on 1st party coverage (comp, collision on YOUR policy), but it is on 3rd party coverage (Other person's property damage coverage, your UM/UIM). Unless your carrier is paying under UM coverage, and with the PD limit issue on the other person's coverage, I don't see where you can recover a DV claim in this case. Maybe I missed something? At any rate, one of the DV evaluation companies can provide you with some ammo to use when negotiating a DV claim.

Stu
What sort of value do you give to what I think is called gap ins??

I have a specialized & reasonable policy with a company that only focuses on certain performance/collectible type vehicles that my regular agent could not touch & stated it was solid, but this dm is a concern.

Talking about a vehicle that may see only 3k miles per year. Just looking for guidance if it's something I should consider since the policy is due as we speak.

Thanks!!
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:16 PM   #21
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What sort of value do you give to what I think is called gap ins??

I have a specialized & reasonable policy with a company that only focuses on certain performance/collectible type vehicles that my regular agent could not touch & stated it was solid, but this dm is a concern.

Talking about a vehicle that may see only 3k miles per year. Just looking for guidance if it's something I should consider since the policy is due as we speak.

Thanks!!
Did you place a value on the vehicle when you got the policy or did the carrier?
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:30 PM   #22
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We agreed on the value & listed on the policy renewal...I would need to go back & check but think the value is the same as when purchased last year??
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Old 02-20-2018, 06:09 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artos View Post
What sort of value do you give to what I think is called gap ins??

I have a specialized & reasonable policy with a company that only focuses on certain performance/collectible type vehicles that my regular agent could not touch & stated it was solid, but this dm is a concern.

Talking about a vehicle that may see only 3k miles per year. Just looking for guidance if it's something I should consider since the policy is due as we speak.

Thanks!!
Gap is a good thing if you are upside down, Paul. I'd be concerned about the scenario you mention, most "stated value" policies are evaluated based on supporting written appraisals, rather than agreement between customer and agent. They do pay a specified value of the property, based on appraisal, in the event of its total loss. Sounds suspiciously like yours is an "agreed value" policy only for the purposes of evaluating how much premium the insurance company charges. We had a big problem with agents selling agreed value policies and the customers expecting a specified payout when the vehicle was totaled, rather than the ACV settlement they got.

Stu
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Old 02-20-2018, 06:18 AM   #24
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We agreed on the value & listed on the policy renewal...I would need to go back & check but think the value is the same as when purchased last year??
I would assume the policy you have, if it is a Hagerty or Grundy or something similar there would not be any diminished value. Other guys in the office sell these policies ( i dont) so i dont know much about them other than customer submits a value and these companies agree and then set a premium. If you add significant value to the vehicle after the policy is in place i would assume you would need to increase the policy limits or you just out that value should it be totaled. ( im just guessing)
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Old 02-20-2018, 07:12 AM   #25
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Thanks fellas...I need to blast off but let me look at the verbiage to make sure what it states in regarding the description of the value.

It was really wrong of me to state 'agreed' & didn't mean to muddy the ins waters...I specifically recall having the conversation on what value to give the car with the agent when purchasing. That wasn't something i was used to as pricing of actual sticker, the given discounts offered & final price we 'agreed' to were all discussed??

My concern is having the stated or agreed price mentioned & with a total on these unibody frames doesn't take much. Also in the thick of not only all the cut rate ins of other drivers, but uninsured motorist is a huge issue this way.
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Old 02-20-2018, 07:30 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bow_Tech_Body_Man View Post
My point was,....Cantcatch5, In the current day of quality Auto body repair, if bags don't deploy, and the frame or any geometric component was not damaged? There is a good possibility the vehicle would not come back with a dirty Fax? It doesn't seem to matter what the price tag was for repairs. I'm not saying that is always the case, but I see it everyday.
Isn't the insurance or the body shop who report to car fax?

Car fax is the reason we paid out of pocket to fix wife's new truck that was side swiped last year. That and it wasn't much more than the deductible after I added front row tickets to journey

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Old 02-20-2018, 08:30 AM   #27
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If your insurance company paid for the repairs you are unable to go after them for diminished value claims is what I was told.

I am in the process now. I got hit last April and started my claim in July. I had $4000 worth of damage and had a company run all the comps and paperwork for $250. My first offer from them took 3.5 months and was $250. I contacted Texas State board of insurance and they sent a letter to the insurance company. My offer is now only $750. I have gotten 3 different appraisals and the car is worth about $4500 less than is should be because of the Carfax report. I have even had my friend who is my agent help. I am going to have to go to court it looks like. I have never taking anyone to court and hate to but I am not going to take a loss due to someone else.
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Old 02-20-2018, 08:37 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quackerbox View Post
Isn't the insurance or the body shop who report to car fax?

Car fax is the reason we paid out of pocket to fix wife's new truck that was side swiped last year. That and it wasn't much more than the deductible after I added front row tickets to journey

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We, the shops don't report , I believe the insurance companies are responsible for the reporting? not positive? Rule of thumb used to be $2500.00 or less wouldn't be reported.
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Old 02-20-2018, 08:58 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by bowhunter911 View Post
If your insurance company paid for the repairs you are unable to go after them for diminished value claims is what I was told.

I am in the process now. I got hit last April and started my claim in July. I had $4000 worth of damage and had a company run all the comps and paperwork for $250. My first offer from them took 3.5 months and was $250. I contacted Texas State board of insurance and they sent a letter to the insurance company. My offer is now only $750. I have gotten 3 different appraisals and the car is worth about $4500 less than is should be because of the Carfax report. I have even had my friend who is my agent help. I am going to have to go to court it looks like. I have never taking anyone to court and hate to but I am not going to take a loss due to someone else.
We are going through the same thing right now. Wife truck got hit. Their insurance paid for the repair. The day we got the truck back, we have had engine problems, and week later after a bent lifter and $3500 out of our pocket for repairs the insurance company says it had nothing to do with the wreck. My wife doesn't trust the truck anymore, so we went to the dealership and they offered her about $4500 less than what the truck was worth. We asked why the offer was so low, and they said the carfax report shows damaged structure and it was reported by an unknown source.
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Old 02-20-2018, 06:28 PM   #30
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Stu / Flywise,

It basically states "Insured Amount" with the total being what I recall from the conversation which is $5k under sticker.

I honestly don't understand the ins game but am trying to avoid what the OP & others have been going through. Like the others, if your car is repaired then you are going to have diminished value even if it is repaired first class.

Maybe I am misunderstand gap Ins & the mention of gap having value if upside down?? I thought gap covered the difference of the dm to help the OP in these very situations??

So, I have a policy stating the insured amount is $5k under sticker & I'm happy with that coverage IF it was totaled & am actually going to get the "Insured Amount" stated on the policy.

If I get hit & it gets fixed (regardless if my ins or not), the car is no longer worth what we agreed...it has lost value I cannot get back. I 'thought' this what was gap was for??
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Old 02-20-2018, 06:49 PM   #31
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Stu / Flywise,

It basically states "Insured Amount" with the total being what I recall from the conversation which is $5k under sticker.

I honestly don't understand the ins game but am trying to avoid what the OP & others have been going through. Like the others, if your car is repaired then you are going to have diminished value even if it is repaired first class.

Maybe I am misunderstand gap Ins & the mention of gap having value if upside down?? I thought gap covered the difference of the dm to help the OP in these very situations??

So, I have a policy stating the insured amount is $5k under sticker & I'm happy with that coverage IF it was totaled & am actually going to get the "Insured Amount" stated on the policy.

If I get hit & it gets fixed (regardless if my ins or not), the car is no longer worth what we agreed...it has lost value I cannot get back. I 'thought' this what was gap was for??
Gap insurance isn't what you're looking for. That type of insurance is for people who buy a new car with next to nothing down and immediately go underwater the moment they drive off the lot. A lot of financing companies require it.

Let's imagine someone buys a new $45K car with $2.5K down. Now let's imagine they total the car less than a month after buying it. The actual cash value of the car is $35K due to depreciation and that's what the owner receives from the insurer. The driver is left paying the $7.5K difference out of pocket. That's what gap insurance is intended to cover.

Most auto polices provide actual cash value coverage. The coverage they provide is exactly as it sounds (depreciation is taken into consideration) and as noted above, they typically won't pay for a first party diminished value claim. The situation is different if you're trying to recover from another driver's policy, in which case it's a third party claim and there's coverage for diminished value.

In your case, it sounds like you have an agreed value policy, which is a totally different animal. These aren't uncommon policies, but it's not something most people are familiar with. You have to specifically ask for it and the increased premium reflects the added coverage. If there's any doubt, send your broker an e-mail very clearly articulating your concerns. That will get their attention and ensure you have the policy that's right for you.
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Old 02-20-2018, 06:59 PM   #32
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Paul, gap insurance addresses the amount between what you have financed and what insurance pays on a total loss. Say, if the vehicle totals and you owe $10k, but insurance only pays $8k, gap insurance will cover the $2k "gap" you owe the lienholder.

Owing more than the vehicle is worth is called being "upside down" on equity, or having negative equity. Having positive equity is owing less than the vehicle's value to a lienholder. Gap insurance is to protect you when you are upside down on equity, which usually happens when a vehicle is financed without a large enough down payment or trade in value. You are "upside down" on the note until you complete enough of the payment cycle so that your remaining payments are less than the value of the car.

Gap insurance does not cover diminished value, or the speculative loss in value a vehicle suffers due to damage and subsequent repair.

Stu

Last edited by Cottonfish; 02-20-2018 at 07:14 PM. Reason: Beat by WBT like a rented mule
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Old 02-20-2018, 07:11 PM   #33
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Thank you Stu & WBT...my bad. Ignorance is curable, stupid is forever as I have the title.

I just cut the check for another year & will give a call to discuss my concerns. I really appreciate these threads & has me scratching my head on my wife's / son's more conventional policies as well with this whole dm value & going to reach out to that agent as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WBT View Post
Gap insurance isn't what you're looking for. That type of insurance is for people who buy a new car with next to nothing down and immediately go underwater the moment they drive off the lot. A lot of financing companies require it.

Let's imagine someone buys a new $45K car with $2.5K down. Now let's imagine they total the car less than a month after buying it. The actual cash value of the car is $35K due to depreciation and that's what the owner receives from the insurer. The driver is left paying the $7.5K difference out of pocket. That's what gap insurance is intended to cover.

Most auto polices provide actual cash value coverage. The coverage they provide is exactly as it sounds (depreciation is taken into consideration) and as noted above, they typically won't pay for a first party diminished value claim. The situation is different if you're trying to recover from another driver's policy, in which case it's a third party claim and there's coverage for diminished value.

In your case, it sounds like you have an agreed value policy, which is a totally different animal. These aren't uncommon policies, but it's not something most people are familiar with. You have to specifically ask for it and the increased premium reflects the added coverage. If there's any doubt, send your broker an e-mail very clearly articulating your concerns. That will get their attention and ensure you have the policy that's right for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cottonfish View Post
Paul, gap insurance addresses the amount between what you have financed and what insurance pays on a total loss. Say, if the vehicle totals and you owe $10k, but insurance only pays $8k, gap insurance will cover the $2k "gap" you owe the lienholder.

Owing more than the vehicle is worth is called being "upside down" on equity, or having negative equity. Having positive equity is owing less than the vehicle's value to a lienholder. Gap insurance is to protect you when you are upside down on equity, which usually happens when a vehicle is financed without a large enough down payment or trade in value. You are "upside down" on the note until you complete enough of the payment cycle so that your remaining payments are less than the value of the car.

Gap insurance does not cover diminished value, or the speculative loss in value a vehicle suffers due to damage and subsequent repair.

Stu

Last edited by Artos; 02-20-2018 at 07:14 PM.
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