If you just 'gotta' paper tune...

[wacm]

you can lead them to water rock, but you cant make'em drink!
i would do anything to have that smiley face that is beating his head on the wall! Lol

[Mike Javi Cooper]

you can lead them to water rock, but you cant make'em drink!
i would do anything to have that smiley face that is beating his head on the wall! Lol

No, you will never get me to drink the Kool-aid...

[Let's go Brandon!]

you can lead them to water rock, but you cant make'em drink!
i would do anything to have that smiley face that is beating his head on the wall! Lol

oh goodie...parables.

You can also get a really good look at a T-bone by sticking your head up a bulls a**, but wouldn't you rather just take the butchers word for it?

[wacm]

are you gettin "smarmy" with me?!

[rocky]

are you gettin "smarmy" with me?!

I'm distressed Would someone please tell me what this means?

[Mike Javi Cooper]

I'm distressed Would someone please tell me what this means?

Here you go Rocky http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=smarmy

[rocky]

I'm distressed Would someone please tell me what this means?

Here you go Rocky http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=smarmy

I see now that it wasn't a compliment.
I guess we should never raise pertinent questions or try to fill in the blanks on these informative threads.
Seems any contradiction to a select few's expertise is taken as "smarmy" and "self aggrandizing".
I'm sorry to have questioned the tuning techniques used by a finger shooting target shooter posted on a modern day bowhunting website.

[Let's go Brandon!]

are you gettin "smarmy" with me?!

"When in Rome... "


oops...did it again.

[wacm]

you got me! Lol

[atexx2]

•buttery: unpleasantly and excessively suave or ingratiating in manner or speech; "buttery praise"; "gave him a fulsome introduction"; "an oily ...
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

•Falsely earnest, smug, or ingratiating
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/smarmy

[rocky]

•buttery: unpleasantly and excessively suave or ingratiating in manner or speech; "buttery praise"; "gave him a fulsome introduction"; "an oily ...
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

•Falsely earnest, smug, or ingratiating
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/smarmy

In all honesty, nothing like this was even in my thought process.
All I've done is point out the issues of bow tuning that walk-back tuning won't address due to the fact that anytime someone has an errant shot,and seeks advice, the standard answer is "you need to walk-back tune your bow", regardless of symtoms.
Walk-back tuning simply does not address anything other than horizontal center-shot.
I ask these questions that some refer to as "smarmy" and "self aggrandizing",
simply to get people to think.

[atexx2]

..

[Osceola]

Maybe I should have phrased it: "Why not contribute without argueing"

I've read through this thread several times and I have any arguing on the part of Rocky.

[100%TtId]

simply to get people to think.

Thanks guys, it worked

I've been struggling with a tuning issue that your and Javi's posts on this thread help solve.

I could not get BHs to group with field points no matter what I adjusted (BH always hitting right of fp...both would group well, just not BH and field points together). The best I could get was BH hitting 6-7 inches right at 50 yards. The usual solution of just moving the sight to correct it was to live with suboptimal performance, which I don't accept from hunting gear.

The bow was in perfect specs on ATA, cam rotation, idler lean, and brace. Setting the starting CS at 13/16", I could not get rid of a severe left paper tear either no matter where the CS was adjusted or how the bow was gripped (ironically, a firm grip produced slightly smaller tears than an open grip).

Eliminating all the likely causes of left tears and BHs grouping right (underspined arrows, grip torque, fletch clearance, heavier point weight, with or without bowquiver, reduced draw weight, different BHs), I found the problems persisted.

After reading this thread, I recalled Rocky mentioning in another post that 3rd axis had to be measured at full draw. Previously, I had only checked it at brace (and it looked perfect, so I assumed it was OK and discounted it as a cause of the problem).

As a test, I shot several arrows holding the bow with a slight left leaning cant according to the sight bubble (maybe 2-3 degrees left) and the BH and fp grouped together. Intrigued with this discovery, I shot thru paper at point blank range and about 6 feet and got a bullet hole on both. Then I shot several groups and noticed that my groups of both BHs and fp tightened up.

To reconcile the cant with the bubble, I added a 1/32" shim under the upper part of the sight arm attachment point and then shot more test arrows to confirm. At distances out to 50 yards, BH and fp group together and tighter than my typical groups.

I then checked the speed on a chrono and gained 4 fps (this may be unrelated, however). I also retested with 25 grain heavier points and found the POI was the same.

Prior walk-back tuning didn't uncover the 3rd axis misalignment, nor did paper tuning indicate a correct solution.

So, what did I learn?

= you cannot rely on a single tuning method to get optimized results
= when you don't get predicted results from tests or adjustments, something else is wrong
= don't assume the levels on your sights are actually level once you're at full draw
= pay closer attention when Rocky or Javi posts something,

[rocky]

100%TtId,
Javi touched this issue in one of his above posts when he mentioned shooters not placing their hand in the bow correctly.
In your attempt to hold an improperly adjusted level level, you were torquing the riser stabilizer left. This is not uncommon with shooters shooting single cam bows. Oddly, shooters shooting binary cam bows have a tendency to torque the riser stabilizer right, and I haven't figured out why the difference.
Either way, when we do this, we interfere with the straight path of the string, causing paper and BH tune to suffer.
At least the paper was telling you something was wrong, even if you were unable to interpret what it was telling you.
Glad you discovered the issue.