Time for adult arrows....

[IkemanTX]

the good thing about shooting such a slow arrow is that deer are great at moving out of the way! so you won't have any penetration problems any more, of course this is because you will hit mostly air most of the time.

i shoot 53-58 pounds and about 300gr of arrow weight and i shoot the biggest modified home made mechanicals i can create, and i don't have penetration issues, my kids shoot far less energy also shoot mechanicals (search my user name) and they don't have any "issues" either

its less about whats pushing the broadhead and a hell of a lot more important whats in front of it.

before you listen to all of the junk about shooting herculean setups maybe just listen to what works for kids slaying deer with 13-14lbs of KE



tune you bow, shoot fast and shoot sharp that is the best recipe i know of



i was shooting 75-80lbs before i started helping my kids, then after i figured that out i thought why the heck would i shoot heavy when i have them by about 6-8" of draw length?

I went through a mechanical phase... not going back to that based on personal experiences. I don’t hate mechs in general, just don’t like the “all or nothing” kind of performance. “Shtuff” happens and shot placement isn’t guaranteed on a live animal, regardless of how well someone shoots.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mjbtexas]

There is no "shoulder" ...go straight up the leg. it forms a ">"and the shoulder blade is really high. aim straight up the leg.

[rocky]

Congrats on the P&Y buck.

[IkemanTX]

There is no "shoulder" ...go straight up the leg. it forms a ">"and the shoulder blade is really high. aim straight up the leg.

Let me be more specific,

Scapula and humerus... colloquially known as the “shoulder”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IkemanTX]

Congrats on the P&Y buck.

Thanks man! It’s my first, and really caught me off guard. Hoping to add to the collection over the next few years!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[haas0311]

My buck 2 years ago was super close range from a 20 feet, I clipped spine from above, and only got another 3 inches of penetration. He was paralyzed from the front legs back. I stuck a second arrow though the lung cavity with him pinned to the ground, and still didn’t get a full pass through.

I was (and still am) shooting a 400 spined carbon express “hunter” 250. My 2018 buck was with a 100gr head, my 2019 buck was with a 125gr head. I added 25 grains thinking that would do something... how naive.

My buck this year died within 80-85 yards, but I attribute that to luck. He was shot from 18 feet up a tree at 12 yards while slightly quartering away. I hit extremely high and back, behind the diaphragm, and EXITED at the red dot in the picture below.



I BARELY clipped the top left lung. This deer should have lived for hours. The only thing that saved me was clipping an artery near the spine, and perforating the diaphragm.

What led to this...?

1) He came through fast. From first sighting, to arrow release, was probably 25 seconds max. I didn’t have my bow in hand beforehand, I wasn’t truly settled, and I shot through a nasty thick “hole”, probably clipping some smilax vines. Aka... my point of impact wasn’t perfect. See video below... this was my initial shooting lane, but I wasn’t settled yet. The video starts within 5-10 seconds of my first visual, and I shot within a few seconds of the ending. My initial intention was to shoot the animal with the video rolling, but “best laid plans” and all....

https://youtu.be/yNfxwjLyrq0

2) I am shooting a 400 spine carbon express “pile driver hunter” arrow, which neither “piled” nor “drived” my deer. In fact, My arrows literally went wobbly by switching from 100gr to 125gr montech G5’s. Talk about noodle shafts... This arrow (I have now figured out) went to wobbling again once it hit the 3 ribs it ended up contacting. Every wobble stole penetrating power through both deflection and resistance with the muscle/connective tissue.

3) I didn’t have enough total mass... I thought that my 480 grains would be enough, but after clipping 2 ribs on the way in and 1 rib on the way out... my arrow lost steam just after the blades cut the outside of the exit side of the deer. The arrow stalled while it plugged both holes. Thank goodness I didn’t need to follow a blood trail, because the only blood that came out was through his nose/mouth. He broke the broadhead side of the arrow 45 yards after impact on a sapling he slammed into, and the nock side came out at 60 yards in some brush.

Take aways:
A lot of guys look at 480 grains as more than enough. BUT, I was afraid of the shoulder and pulled back too far into the body cavity to compensate. Even WAY back in the body cavity, where I only had ribs to deal with, I didn’t have enough mass or cutting power with 480 grains of wobbly arrow shaft. This is with cut on contact fixed blades.... I can’t imagine I would have recovered this deer with mechanicals. Most of my public land shooting lanes (since I can’t legally, and don’t, trim shooting lanes) are 10-15 yards wide at the max. If a buck is cruising for does, he will cover that 15 yards in a couple of seconds. I can’t rely on a perfect shot, on a moving animal, over a 2-3 second time period. I NEED penetration power instead, so I can plant a “center of mass” shot on the vitals regardless of leg/shoulder placement.

I hope this has fully explained why I need a bulletproof, deep penetration, kill EVERYTHING kind of setup. I know that with PERFECT placement, rage heads cause massive damage... I just can’t plan on perfect placement, or perfect conditions.

On a lighter note..... here is a better look at my first Pope and Young buck. And, he happens to be a public land Pope and Young. I kinda personally consider him equivalent to a guided/private land booner... I hope that doesn’t offend anyone.





He went 132 7/8” gross and 130” net,
Thank GOD for mass measurements!
He kept his weight out through all of his tines, more like a Kansas deer than a southern oklahoma/Northern are as deer!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I recommend you get with Muddyfuzzy on here. He built me some kick A arrows that are right around 660 gr with a 125gr broadhead. I am shooting Grim Reaper Carni4's, Veteran VIP's, and Annihilator heads. I used the Annihilators last season and brought down 2 deer with them, resharpened and are back in the quiver. He will get you set up right!!

[enewman]

the good thing about shooting such a slow arrow is that deer are great at moving out of the way! so you won't have any penetration problems any more, of course this is because you will hit mostly air most of the time.
i shoot 53-58 pounds and about 300gr of arrow weight and i shoot the biggest modified home made mechanicals i can create, and i don't have penetration issues, my kids shoot far less energy also shoot mechanicals (search my user name) and they don't have any "issues" either
its less about whats pushing the broadhead and a hell of a lot more important whats in front of it.
before you listen to all of the junk about shooting herculean setups maybe just listen to what works for kids slaying deer with 13-14lbs of KE

tune you bow, shoot fast and shoot sharp that is the best recipe i know of

i was shooting 75-80lbs before i started helping my kids, then after i figured that out i thought why the heck would i shoot heavy when i have them by about 6-8" of draw length?

the op is wanting to increase his set up. it's nice when people join in to help. it's not nice to come in and trash the op.

what works for you may not work for others.

as far as junk.

let's see. in physics we all learn, to make an object harder to stop we increase mass.

with just a touch of research, we can look at aeronautics and see why FOC can be a factor in flight.

with research, we can read Dr. Ashby's studies, by the way, this is the only study ever done for arrow lethality. it has never been proven wrong.

an arrow that doesn't have a complete passthrough is a failure in design.

"The only con to heavy arrows is the trajectory. the only pro to a light arrow is the trajectory"
Eric

[Duckologist]

its less about whats pushing the broadhead and a hell of a lot more important whats in front of it.

This can be your opinion if you choose but it's patently false and just because it's the best recipe that you know of does not mean it's THE best recipe. Maybe it's the only recipe you've tried?

[muddyfuzzy]

the good thing about shooting such a slow arrow is that deer are great at moving out of the way! so you won't have any penetration problems any more, of course this is because you will hit mostly air most of the time.

i shoot 53-58 pounds and about 300gr of arrow weight and i shoot the biggest modified home made mechanicals i can create, and i don't have penetration issues, my kids shoot far less energy also shoot mechanicals (search my user name) and they don't have any "issues" either

its less about whats pushing the broadhead and a hell of a lot more important whats in front of it.

before you listen to all of the junk about shooting herculean setups maybe just listen to what works for kids slaying deer with 13-14lbs of KE



tune you bow, shoot fast and shoot sharp that is the best recipe i know of



i was shooting 75-80lbs before i started helping my kids, then after i figured that out i thought why the heck would i shoot heavy when i have them by about 6-8" of draw length?

I don’t even understand what this means.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[enewman]

I don’t even understand what this means.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

it means your stupid for shooting heavy arrows, teaching people about heavy arrows.

haha hahaha.

[JLivi1224]

Experts on here crack me up.

PLENTYYYYYYY OF DEER HAVE BEEN KILLED AT 200ish FPS.

[ChickenWilly]

Yes trajectory is affected but the extra weight also helps quiet your bow down. I had a group of blowing does come through this season and I let one rip at 45 yards and none of them even flinched till the arrow had already passed through her.(I generally keep my shots less than 30 but she was asking for it lol ) I was only shooting 62 lbs at 239fps. Speed is definitely not everything. It doesnt hurt by any means but it's not the only piece of the puzzle.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[JLivi1224]

Yes trajectory is affected but the extra weight also helps quiet your bow down. I had a group of blowing does come through this season and I let one rip at 45 yards and none of them even flinched till the arrow had already passed through her.(I generally keep my shots less than 30 but she was asking for it lol ) I was only shooting 62 lbs at 239fps. Speed is definitely not everything. It doesnt hurt by any means but it's not the only piece of the puzzle.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

LIES!!!! give me 330 or give me death!!!

[Felix40]

I think there is more to it than just arrow weight. Theres a lot of factors and I cant see any reason why you cant blow through deer with your current arrow weight. Get it tuned perfectly and shoot a better broadhead (montecs are not known for being sharp or durable). Its been a long time but when I was a kid I shot 60 pounds and a 400 something grain arrow and got passthroughs on everything. Not to mention now Im shooting a 480grain arrow out of a 60# recurve and getting passthroughs on elk and sheep which are way thicker than any whitetail.

I think its really easy to get off in the weeds on calculating foc and getting a super heavy arrow when the basics (arrow flight, broadhead sharpness, and broadhead/arrow integrity) are what really need the focus.

[jds247]

I was in the bow shop last week and a guy was giving all the reasons for shooting a light arrow.. I finally ask what he was shooting. Come to find out my 500 grain arrow is 5 fps slower than his 360 grain arrow.
I think it all depends on your set up. Trad guys kill a lot of critters around 180 fps..