Deer Ecology 101

[Top Of Texas]

Originally Posted by Bdiver

Do y'all have any recommendations on supplemental protein?

I would first ask what your objective is. Keep deer around or increase antler size?

If it's keeping deer around , great, supplement can help.

If it's grow bigger deer, then I'd ask what your situation is. Reason is, in order for you to realize benefits of feed, bucks still need to reach 6+ yrs. If that's unlikely in your situation where you historically dont have bucks of that age, then it becomes an investment of time, effort, and money that has low probability for return.

IMHO, about any reputable feed will work. No reason to feed more than 20% protein. I used to feed Purina and Moormans. Both worked well.

[lovemylegacy]

True! If at least half of your neighbors aren't being selective with what they shoot, it will be an effort of futility. But! feeding would still help the resident does which would help fawn health, I would think.

[Bdiver]

I only have 20 acres. About 60 acres to the west are heavily wooded with a couple houses being built on 10 acres tracts. That didn't seem to slow the deer down to much. There are several hundred acres of mixed woods and cow pasture connected to the northeast as well. To the best of my knowledge the only thing being put out is corn and not much by my land at all. I have tons of red and white oaks and a couple dried creek bottoms and right where I'm at seems to be a great natural funnel. I'd like to manage the herd as much as possible. I don't think there are that many folks around my land that hunt much and if they do, it's probably just from the. Ack porch. I doubt there are any food plots so hopefully I can create quite the deer haven.

[txfirefighter_04]

Tuned in!! Great thread & thanks for the info

[lovemylegacy]

Yes! Yes it is.

[Doe Doe Spike]

Which ecoregion of Texas is most favorable for deer based upon natural vegetation?

[lovemylegacy]

Gotta be SETx, with as much turnover there is in the lumber industry, there is always food available. However one of our resident biologist probably have actual hard data on it.

[Planner]

Great thread


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[Top Of Texas]

Since deer food (weeds and browse)is dependent on rainfall and the number of different quality plants, then portions of eastern TX, depending on soils, would be hard to beat, not including areas of heavy dominant pine.

[Doe Doe Spike]

So 100 acres in East Texas could hold a higher deer density than 100 acres in South Texas or 100 acres in the hill country. (Excluding factors like hunting pressure, supplemental food, livestock , hogs)

[tigerscowboy]

Originally Posted by doe doe spike

so 100 acres in east texas could hold a higher deer density than 100 acres in south texas or 100 acres in the hill country. (excluding factors like hunting pressure, supplemental food, livestock , hogs)

bingo

[Top Of Texas]

Originally Posted by Doe Doe Spike

So 100 acres in East Texas could hold a higher deer density than 100 acres in South Texas or 100 acres in the hill country. (Excluding factors like hunting pressure, supplemental food, livestock , hogs)

You'd need to define "hold". In general broad brush strokes, what you say is vaguely true.

The TX hill country has carried some crazy high deer numbers (highest in the state), but look at the size of some of them and check out the browse lines. They've shrunk, but the country is still "holding" them.

S TX mixed brush can be very diverse, particularly the red sandy soils, with numerous high quality browse plants, and lots of mid-value plants. But, what we see are peaks and valleys in antler size and fawn crops based on rainfall amounts and timing. This is because rain makes weeds (deer's preference), and in dry years they're strictly on mature (few fresh shoots) browse. This roller coaster fawn crop can kind of keep numbers in check in open range situations.

What I'm getting at is, it isn't as simple as which can hold more deer, but generally speaking there would be more natural food in parts of E TX year in and year out provided the population was kept at a level that ensured growth and reproduction of the quality browse.

[Doe Doe Spike]

Support is the word I'm going for.

You are saying one of the main reasons for more deer in the areas of South Texas and the Hill country is hunting pressure ( size of ranches) as opposes to natural food sources and browse potentially available.

Rain is the main factor in determining fresh growth which in turn leads to more deer browse and more deer? Type of vegatation plays less of a roll in deer numbers?

[TKK]

Originally Posted by Doe Doe Spike

Which ecoregion of Texas is most favorable for deer based upon natural vegetation?

Maverick County = check the record books over the past thirty years

[TKK]

feeding supplemental feed (protein or cottonseed) in the wrong setting is worthless - it works only when there is enough property and enough feed stations - on a small place where nobody else is feeding it and neighbors are killing every deer that walks by with horns? Waste of your money
simple as that

[TKK]

Originally Posted by Doe Doe Spike

Support is the word I'm going for.

You are saying one of the main reasons for more deer in the areas of South Texas and the Hill country is hunting pressure ( size of ranches) as opposes to natural food sources and browse potentially available.

Rain is the main factor in determining fresh growth which in turn leads to more deer browse and more deer? Type of vegatation plays less of a roll in deer numbers?

good rain leads to good range conditions which in turn leads to healthier deer - healthier deer tends to bring does with twins instead of singles. Fawn survival is dependent on the range conditions.

So long term, if your habitat is good due to rain then your deer will prosper and bucks will have more nutrition - that turns into better horns - NO supplemental feed made by man can replicate or duplicate mother nature and its impact on a deer herd

[Top Of Texas]

Originally Posted by Doe Doe Spike

Rain is the main factor in determining fresh growth which in turn leads to more deer browse and more deer? Type of vegatation plays less of a roll in deer numbers?

Dude, I wish it were simple...actually...no I don't, then I wouldnt have a job.

Type of vegetation definitely matters. A deer could starve to death in belly deep grass and only mesquite for browse, or eastern red cedar for that matter.

Another of the complicating factors is that plants are designed to fit in their environment. That means browse in S TX can do okay with 12 inches of rain. But, E TX plants would be in bad shape with only 12 inches.

Boil it down to this, which supports you're original question. IF, that's a big if, rainfall was at least average for the different areas of TX over 10-20 years, AND, the populations in each area were kept at a level that ensured growth and reproduction of the quality browse, then, YES, portions of E TX could support more deer than other parts of TX.

[Top Of Texas]

Important point. I would define the number of deer that an area could support as: A deer density (ac/deer) that would result in the growth and reproduction of quality browse plants that could occur in that area.

[Hawkpuppy 1]

Originally Posted by Top Of Texas

Important point. I would define the number of deer that an area could support as: A deer density (ac/deer) that would result in the growth and reproduction of quality browse plants that could occur in that area.

Best answer to the last 5 responses....

[fullsizeaggie]

Another spin off to what has been said above. I would manage your vegetation before "managing" your deer. If you provide food, cover and water, deer will come and stay. On small acreage, I think that is the best thing that you can do.

[Hawkpuppy 1]

^ Well said. You have to have the land and habitat to draw, hold and support the deer...

[lovemylegacy]

Originally Posted by fullsizeaggie

Another spin off to what has been said above. I would manage your vegetation before "managing" your deer. If you provide food, cover and water, deer will come and stay. On small acreage, I think that is the best thing that you can do.

This is basically MLD practices

[Top Of Texas]

Yep. Well...used to be.

[lovemylegacy]

Originally Posted by Top Of Texas

Yep. Well...used to be.

Its changing this season I do believe.

[Top Of Texas]

Originally Posted by lovemylegacy

Its changing this season I do believe.

I believe so.

[Doe Doe Spike]

Thanks for the info

[lovemylegacy]

Originally Posted by Top Of Texas

I believe so.

I saw the new regs and its almost like...do what ya want. Unless Im mistaken.

[bgleaton]

What regulations are changing for MLD?

[Top Of Texas]

Originally Posted by bgleaton

What regulations are changing for MLD?

Follow link

https://www.texasdeerassociation.com...ffect-in-2017/

[Hawkpuppy 1]

Back on track now with some more info....

This time of year can, and is, just as critical as any other for WTD. Right now, bucks are in probably their worst body condition and dropping antlers. Does are about 3.5 months from dropping fawns. Nutrition is a major factor right now more than ever. Bucks body conditions must be brought back up to "normal" to ensure maximum potential for a good start to new antler growth. Does need the same to help keep their body conditions up for fawn development.

Now, all that being said, if you are just now feeding to help with these issues, you're way behind the 8 ball. I hear and see a lot of people that only feel the need to supplemental feed protein during the summer months for antler growth. While that is a critical time, year round availability of both quality native and supplemental feed is just as, if not more, important. Keeping deer in their best body conditions all year long is extremely important for antler and fawn production, mortality reduction from post rut stress and a host of other things. Don't be they guy that just feeds corn after September...

[BrandonA]

Originally Posted by Hawkpuppy 1

Back on track now with some more info....

This time of year can, and is, just as critical as any other for WTD. Right now, bucks are in probably their worst body condition and dropping antlers. Does are about 3.5 months from dropping fawns. Nutrition is a major factor right now more than ever. Bucks body conditions must be brought back up to "normal" to ensure maximum potential for a good start to new antler growth. Does need the same to help keep their body conditions up for fawn development.

Now, all that being said, if you are just now feeding to help with these issues, you're way behind the 8 ball. I hear and see a lot of people that only feel the need to supplemental feed protein during the summer months for antler growth. While that is a critical time, year round availability of both quality native and supplemental feed is just as, if not more, important. Keeping deer in their best body conditions all year long is extremely important for antler and fawn production, mortality reduction from post rut stress and a host of other things. Don't be they guy that just feeds corn after September...

This is very true. I think one reason the deer in our area tends to be better than average is all the wheat fields in the area, Including ours. The deer stay fat.

[XBowHunter]

Originally Posted by Hawkpuppy 1

Back on track now with some more info....



This time of year can, and is, just as critical as any other for WTD. Right now, bucks are in probably their worst body condition and dropping antlers. Does are about 3.5 months from dropping fawns. Nutrition is a major factor right now more than ever. Bucks body conditions must be brought back up to "normal" to ensure maximum potential for a good start to new antler growth. Does need the same to help keep their body conditions up for fawn development.



Now, all that being said, if you are just now feeding to help with these issues, you're way behind the 8 ball. I hear and see a lot of people that only feel the need to supplemental feed protein during the summer months for antler growth. While that is a critical time, year round availability of both quality native and supplemental feed is just as, if not more, important. Keeping deer in their best body conditions all year long is extremely important for antler and fawn production, mortality reduction from post rut stress and a host of other things. Don't be they guy that just feeds corn after September...

I have a pass-through property. I try to feed corn all year around.

Approximately what would it cost me to feed protein also?

[BrandonA]

Originally Posted by XBowHunter

I have a pass-through property. I try to feed corn all year around.

Approximately what would it cost me to feed protein also?

How much land do you have? Since your property is a pass through property you may consider planting some permanent. Personally I am going to planting about 50-75 honey suckle plants.

[XBowHunter]

Originally Posted by BrandonA

How much land do you have? Since your property is a pass through property you may consider planting some permanent. Personally I am going to planting about 50-75 honey suckle plants.

22 acres

I have planted some sawtooth oak trees that are 4-5 feet high. They are three or four years old and should start producing acorns in another 4-5 years.

I planted a nice little soybean plot but it got flooded out. Need to work on another food plot further away from the creek

[Hawkpuppy 1]

Cost of protein will vary greatly depending on brand and actual protein percentage as well as mineral content. You can run protein timed as well. Doesn't have to always be free choice, although that is preferred. As mentioned, try planting things such as the mentioned honeysuckle, fruit trees, plots such as peas and wheat. All depends on your property layout and available ground to work with.

[XBowHunter]

Originally Posted by Hawkpuppy 1

Cost of protein will vary greatly depending on brand and actual protein percentage as well as mineral content. You can run protein timed as well. Doesn't have to always be free choice, although that is preferred. As mentioned, try planting things such as the mentioned honeysuckle, fruit trees, plots such as peas and wheat. All depends on your property layout and available ground to work with.

Thanks

Do have some winter wheat fields around here, but they don't plant wheat every year

[deer farmer]

Thank you for this thread, good info. We try to keep 10% of our property in year round food plots or around 15 acres in small plots. Lots of work and cost to do it , but something I really enjoy doing. when you tell of the good native food in the E Texas area, I have to agree and I think there are some really nice bucks here. It's just that you wont see many of them out and around as they travel at night mostly lol

[Hawkpuppy 1]

What happened? Ok, just a little quickie for today....

Deer as a rule won't eat anything with blue or purple flowers. Keep that in mind right now while looking at the landscape thinking you have a lot of good forbs....

[Top Of Texas]

Except for Dayflower, Venus Looking Glass, Tahoka Daisy, to name a few off the top of my head.

[texashunter56]

Add Wine Cup to that list of purple flowering forbs they will eat. Very high protein also.

[Larry]

Originally Posted by Hawkpuppy 1

Deer as a rule won't eat anything with blue or purple flowers. Keep that in mind right now while looking at the landscape thinking you have a lot of good forbs....

Originally Posted by Top Of Texas

Except for Dayflower, Venus Looking Glass, Tahoka Daisy, to name a few off the top of my head.

Originally Posted by texashunter56

Add Wine Cup to that list of purple flowering forbs they will eat. Very high protein also.

[QuackerWacker83]

Awesome thread, cant believe I didn't find this sooner... bring on the Info!

[DesertDug]

learn me something.

[Throwin Darts]

Great thread

[jbhunting39]

This thread is awesome!


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[Hawkpuppy 1]

Originally Posted by Larry

That's why I said "as a rule" not they won't ever...

[Hawkpuppy 1]

Right now there are lots of fawns hitting the ground, and they will continue all summer long depending on where you are at in the state. I have seen fawns on the ground as early as April and as late as September. As a rule, deer have a gestation of about 215-220 days. You can use that to count back from the arrival of fawns to get a better idea of when your does are getting bred.

Fawns, when born, are not ruminants. Initially they are monogastrics (one stomach), and do not actually develop all 4 compartments, rumen, reticulum, abomasum and omasum, of the true ruminant system for over a month. Obviously milk is ther only food for the first several weeks and slowly will transition over to grasses, forbs and other feeds.

[SnJGuin]

Top - need more to read

[lovemylegacy]

Originally Posted by Hawkpuppy 1

Back on track now with some more info....

This time of year can, and is, just as critical as any other for WTD. Right now, bucks are in probably their worst body condition and dropping antlers. Does are about 3.5 months from dropping fawns. Nutrition is a major factor right now more than ever. Bucks body conditions must be brought back up to "normal" to ensure maximum potential for a good start to new antler growth. Does need the same to help keep their body conditions up for fawn development.

Now, all that being said, if you are just now feeding to help with these issues, you're way behind the 8 ball. I hear and see a lot of people that only feel the need to supplemental feed protein during the summer months for antler growth. While that is a critical time, year round availability of both quality native and supplemental feed is just as, if not more, important. Keeping deer in their best body conditions all year long is extremely important for antler and fawn production, mortality reduction from post rut stress and a host of other things. Don't be they guy that just feeds corn after September...

Just to help revive this thread and to add to this statement, during the dormant period for deer browse, deer were keeping my plots very short, now that deer browse plants are emerging they have left the plots untouched. My Winter Wheat is 6inches now, clover is exploding, not many tracks in my plots.

[Booner Sooner]

Good info