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Old 02-26-2018, 01:07 PM   #1
DRT
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Default Question about long bows

Are all long bows cut to center and not past center for the shelf, sight window?
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:16 PM   #2
tex4k
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"All", no some aren't even cut to center, not knowledgeable enough to say which bows are what, but I've got some older bows and they definitely aren't cut to center, some of the older recurves even make me think they may a little shy of center.
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:30 PM   #3
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A lot of longbow risers are too thin to cut all the way to center without sacrificing strength.
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:31 PM   #4
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I'm looking to see if any are cut past center by an eighth inch or so.

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Old 02-26-2018, 01:32 PM   #5
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I made some hybrid longbows that I cut 1/8 past center. But most of the traditional long bows ( thin risers) are not cut to center.
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:32 PM   #6
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No! Some are way before center, some are at center, and some are past center. It just depends on the bow!

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Old 02-26-2018, 02:07 PM   #7
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So can someone recommend a brand cut past center?

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Old 02-26-2018, 02:10 PM   #8
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My bow from Randy Madden is 3/16'' past center, just like my Widow.
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Old 02-26-2018, 02:27 PM   #9
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The omega original


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Old 02-26-2018, 03:38 PM   #10
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Bob lee takedown is cut past center, I am almost positive. But, out of curiosity, why you need one cut that far?
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Old 02-26-2018, 03:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJH1 View Post
Bob lee takedown is cut past center, I am almost positive. But, out of curiosity, why you need one cut that far?

Easier to tune and more tolerant of a wider range of spine.
Big Jim can do 1/8 past center on 1and 2 piece bows and 3/16 -1/4 past center on 3 piece.
I do the same.
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Old 02-26-2018, 04:27 PM   #12
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Well Randy you're on the short list.

Next question. Will shelf cut DQ me for a TBOT class?

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Old 02-26-2018, 04:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
Well Randy you're on the short list.

Next question. Will shelf cut DQ me for a TBOT class?

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Not as long as you shoot off the shelf
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Old 02-26-2018, 04:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Madden View Post
Easier to tune and more tolerant of a wider range of spine.
Big Jim can do 1/8 past center on 1and 2 piece bows and 3/16 -1/4 past center on 3 piece.
I do the same.
I know the reasoning for it, but was wondering about his reason. I have found that tuning one that is not cut to center is not a big deal, but just wondered why he was wanting one.
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Old 02-26-2018, 04:35 PM   #15
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Default Question about long bows

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
Next question. Will shelf cut DQ me for a TBOT class?

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No!

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Old 02-26-2018, 05:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJH1 View Post
I know the reasoning for it, but was wondering about his reason. I have found that tuning one that is not cut to center is not a big deal, but just wondered why he was wanting one.
The primary reason I want a bow to be cut to or past center is: it allows me to shoot a stiffer arrow, which translates to more of the bows energy being transferred to that arrow.

Rick
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Old 02-26-2018, 05:23 PM   #17
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Gary: First off: great to meet and visit with you yesterday at Cowtown.

Here's a close-up of my new hickory longbow's riser with an 11/32" arrow on the shelf. Shooting instinctive, real different sight picture needed, compared with center-cut recurve. I feel like brain has made the adjustment in less than a week and 300-400 arrows.



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Old 02-26-2018, 09:18 PM   #18
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Okay but I can shoot a long bow with field point decently. But I'm too frustrated to deal with trying to rune arrows for flight and sound. Not worth the frustration and effort at thus point in my journey.

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Old 02-26-2018, 09:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJH1 View Post
I know the reasoning for it, but was wondering about his reason. I have found that tuning one that is not cut to center is not a big deal, but just wondered why he was wanting one.
Rick hit the nail on the head.

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Old 02-26-2018, 09:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
Rick hit the nail on the head.

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Cool and good luck
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Old 02-26-2018, 09:55 PM   #21
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Need all that I can get.

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Old 02-26-2018, 10:44 PM   #22
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If you maintain form, brain can adjust to pretty much anything. Assuming instinctive aiming, short-of-center, center, past center, shouldn't matter; although spine flexibility may be limited, as Rick noted. I know that I can use the same 70-75 spine (11/32") cedar arrows in my 70# recurve as in my 90# longbow. Now, I use 400 spine carbons in the recurve, but 340s are needed for the heavier longbow.

For the record, I haven't chrono'd either bow with either sets of arrows, but it seems like speeds are similar among all these combinations (632-grains to 730-grains) mentioned above.
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Old 02-27-2018, 05:44 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
Okay but I can shoot a long bow with field point decently. But I'm too frustrated to deal with trying to rune arrows for flight and sound. Not worth the frustration and effort at thus point in my journey.

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One thing I've noticed with every longbow I've shot. If I have a sloppy release it shows more than it does with my recurve. Not sure why and maybe it's just me. With you having that finger injury just something to keep in mind.
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Old 02-28-2018, 06:31 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
I'm looking to see if any are cut past center by an eighth inch or so.

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Gary,

Just curious, isn't your Thunderchild cut past center? I had a Thunderchild and it was definitely cut past center.
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Old 02-28-2018, 06:33 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by caughtandhobble View Post
Gary,

Just curious, isn't your Thunderchild cut past center? I had a Thunderchild and it was definitely cut past center.
No it's cut to center.

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Old 02-28-2018, 07:54 AM   #26
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The older TC's were only cut to center.
The newer ones are cut past center.
I'm not sure of how much past, but think I remember reading it is 1/8".

Rick
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:32 AM   #27
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Something I think note worthy here is:

It takes very little change in center cut measurement of a bow to have a huge impact of the spine requirement for that bow.

An example of that is - when using an adjustable strike plate, that is moved via the use of turning a bolt in the berger button threaded hole:

I can visibly see differences in arrow flight, with as little as 1/4 of a turn/rotation of the bolt.

That is only changing the center position of the shaft 1/32", but it does make a noticeable/visible difference in arrow flight, and in down range lateral impact.

When only turning the bolt 1/8 turn/rotation, I normally can't actually visibly see a difference in arrow flight, but there is always a notable difference in lateral impact of the arrows.

Point is - a tiny bit of center cut position change goes a long way when tuning.

Even if you don't have a bolt to make the change, you can make those changes by thickening, or thinning your strike plate material. Of course you will be limited in adjustment depending on how far past center the bow is actually cut, but it can be done, and is a valuable process in your overall tuning process.

A side note to that is - if you are having to take the position of the arrow inside of center to get it to shoot, then it's way to stiff. Go the other way with it, and adjust spine of shaft and/or point weight to compensate.

I've always found the best arrow position for me to be "slightly" outside of center, but with some bows you just can't get that, and they hold the arrow well outside, so you have to resort to making arrow changes. On those bows, just get the arrow as close to center as you can, then make the changes in the arrow you need to get it flying, and impacting how/where you where you want it to.

Lets also not overlook - the diameter of the shaft changes it's position of center, so that too can be effectively used to get where you want/need to be "IF" you have the resources to do so, and don't mind experimenting with the diameters.

Rick

Last edited by RickBarbee; 02-28-2018 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:00 AM   #28
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You can get them cut any way you want them. At a lot of the shoots that I go to, if you shoot in LONGBOW class the shelf has to be at least 1/8" FROM center (not past center) and there are rules about riser width and length, also I think aimed at limiting center cut. Usually, wood arrows are also required.
You can shoot in MODERN LONGBOW class with center cut and any arrow material other than wood.
I have a dual shelf recurve (St. Charles Thunderbird) that is cut over 1/4" from center which requires a much weaker shaft. It is not a problem, just have to tune it accordingly. Probably not a good idea for a beginning trad shooter to tackle one like that. Much simpler to tune a bow that is cut to, or past center.
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Old 02-28-2018, 12:48 PM   #29
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I'm just not willing to spend the time, money, effort and frustration to make this one work.

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Old 02-28-2018, 01:07 PM   #30
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What are you trying to make work?
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:13 AM   #31
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All I know is don't put this question on primitive archer!!! I agree with Rick again. Arvin
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Old 03-01-2018, 07:57 AM   #32
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I pulled out the Whippenstick longbow and did some measuring on it. It appears to be cut an eighth past center but the strike plate is thick enough to bring it back to center. I tried to Google the information but didn't have any luck. It is pretty easy to determine the cut. I've seen Rick give tutorials on it before, but basically you find the center of the limbs and run a string line between the two center points. I used masking tape and dental floss on this one.
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