9mm vs 40 pretty good read

[H-D]

I'd trade an eye for my brain

That's what Carl Grimes said

[6.5 shooter]

I'll keep my .40

[doubleplay43]

An unfair comparison: you're comparing the heaviest round of a 45 to the near lightest round of a .40. You run 180 grain bullets through a .45 and you'll have ~600 ft-lb of energy.

This.

It is comical to compare speeds and energy with the selected rounds in this example. Very possible the 9mm has a bigger expansion diameter in the 9mm than the 40 using that light 40 round.

[meltingfeather]

An unfair comparison: you're comparing the heaviest round of a 45 to the near lightest round of a .40. You run 180 grain bullets through a .45 and you'll have ~600 ft-lb of energy.

^^

I think that was his point though.

This, like any internet opinion battle, is up to each individual shooter.

For me?
9mm... all... day... long.
There is not a situation where the same aggressor hit with a .40 or .45 is going to stop dead in his tracks vs. still come at you after taking a 9mm in the same spot because of the "slightly larger wound channel."
More than likely you're going to miss... a few times, and one of those guns is going to keep going "boom" while the others "click."
If you think you're not going to miss when the mountains of evidence of highly trained shooters in real life scenarios says otherwise, you're kidding yourself.

[cbd10pt]

Pistol effectiveness has many factors.
My opinion of importance.

#1 accuracy .
1st shot matters most

#2 wound channel
Hit hard and deep

#3 follow up shot- recoil recovery
Determined by individual preference.

#4 capacity
Almost a mute point in a full size

Truck or open carry I would stick with my XD Combat Essentials.

Concealed single stack Glock 9mm

I have no use for a 45 . Slow bullet, poor penetration

[KLWoodall]

I have seen more people live from 45 bullet wounds than 9. Even a woman who took 3 rounds of 44 mag to the head.

Some folks are just lucky I guess.

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That women must have a tiny brain

Seems the brainless are harder to kill.

[6.5 shooter]

That women must have a tiny brain

Sir, that's what you call a liberal.

[tvc184]

For my 2¢....

All modern defensive ammo is engineered to land at a certain depth. One round might have a potential to go deeper but they have a hollow point design and the amount of powder needed to land in that fairly narrow range. It really doesn't matter the round (9mm, .357Sig, .40S&W or .45ACP), in various tests by firing into bare gelatin or gelatin after being fired through heavy clothing, auto windshield, wallboard or plywood.... the results are similar.

For example of tests by Federal of their HST rounds....
A 147 9mm through 2 sheets of wallboard (such as inside of a house) expands 1/10 of an inch less than a 230 .45. The 9mm penetrates almost an inch and a half more however. So you trade a slight better penetration for a slight advantage in expansion. The mighty (as some claim) .357Sig goes an inch less than the 9mm and almost a tenth of an inch less expansion. It loses all the way around... but again, not by much.

In the same HST rounds the 9mm beats up the .45 in auto glass (probably more use to the police than home defense) by both going deeper and expanding more. How is that?? Even then though, it is by slight amounts.

In bare gelatin the awesome .40S&W 180 beats the 9mm by 1/10 of an inch in expansion and the exact same penetration. The .357Sig loses all the way around ... but again by 1" less penetration and 2/100ths of an inch in expansion. In my opinion that is statistically about the same. The .45 here is almost exactly tied with the .40. Why are these 4 rounds almost mirror images of each other in result? They are designed that way.

And that is just the way it is. The rounds of today are made to expand the best that they can and land in a range that the FBI determined was good. It doesn't even matter if someone likes the FBI standard, that is what the rounds are designed and loaded for by the factories.

For someone that thinks the .45 penetrates less, that simply isn't true. It matches the others in penetration. For someone that thinks the 9mm has a small hole, that simply isn't true either. It matches the others. In some cases any of the rounds might go slightly deeper or expand slightly more depending on what it had to penetrate to get to the gelatin/target. The 9mm beats all other rounds in wallboard tests in penetration. The .40 expands the most in wallboard. The .45 has the best expansion in bare gelatin and goes deeper in heavy clothing. So it is back and forth on which is "better" at any particular scenario. Flip a coin.

The only realistic difference in the modern ammo is capacity and recoil when shooting modern common brand defensive ammo. That to me translates to how many times it will go bang between mandatory reloads and how fast you can follow up shots on target. Old war stories, what my grandpa shot in WWI, I was told by the old cop at the end of the street, what round claims to have more "knock down" or anything else does not matter. Shot location and number of rounds on target does.

Now if you want to hand load, you might get hugely different results. For people buying off the shelf however...............

In my opinion.

[cbd10pt]

to say they are all the same is pretty silly.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=9mm+underwood&&view=detail&mid=82E6BFE2463ED8142ADE82E6BFE2463ED8142ADE&FORM=VRDGAR

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=underwood+155+40&&view=detail&mid=C1ACA330AA2E5B495816C1ACA330AA2E5B495816&FORM=VRDGAR

[JW]

9mm vs 40 pretty good read

For my 2¢....



All modern defensive ammo is engineered to land at a certain depth. One round might have a potential to go deeper but they have a hollow point design and the amount of powder needed to land in that fairly narrow range. It really doesn't matter the round (9mm, .357Sig, .40S&W or .45ACP), in various tests by firing into bare gelatin or gelatin after being fired through heavy clothing, auto windshield, wallboard or plywood.... the results are similar.



For example of tests by Federal of their HST rounds....

A 147 9mm through 2 sheets of wallboard (such as inside of a house) expands 1/10 of an inch less than a 230 .45. The 9mm penetrates almost an inch and a half more however. So you trade a slight better penetration for a slight advantage in expansion. The mighty (as some claim) .357Sig goes an inch less than the 9mm and almost a tenth of an inch less expansion. It loses all the way around... but again, not by much.



In the same HST rounds the 9mm beats up the .45 in auto glass (probably more use to the police than home defense) by both going deeper and expanding more. How is that?? Even then though, it is by slight amounts.



In bare gelatin the awesome .40S&W 180 beats the 9mm by 1/10 of an inch in expansion and the exact same penetration. The .357Sig loses all the way around ... but again by 1" less penetration and 2/100ths of an inch in expansion. In my opinion that is statistically about the same. The .45 here is almost exactly tied with the .40. Why are these 4 rounds almost mirror images of each other in result? They are designed that way.



And that is just the way it is. The rounds of today are made to expand the best that they can and land in a range that the FBI determined was good. It doesn't even matter if someone likes the FBI standard, that is what the rounds are designed and loaded for by the factories.



For someone that thinks the .45 penetrates less, that simply isn't true. It matches the others in penetration. For someone that thinks the 9mm has a small hole, that simply isn't true either. It matches the others. In some cases any of the rounds might go slightly deeper or expand slightly more depending on what it had to penetrate to get to the gelatin/target. The 9mm beats all other rounds in wallboard tests in penetration. The .40 expands the most in wallboard. The .45 has the best expansion in bare gelatin and goes deeper in heavy clothing. So it is back and forth on which is "better" at any particular scenario. Flip a coin.



The only realistic difference in the modern ammo is capacity and recoil when shooting modern common brand defensive ammo. That to me translates to how many times it will go bang between mandatory reloads and how fast you can follow up shots on target. Old war stories, what my grandpa shot in WWI, I was told by the old cop at the end of the street, what round claims to have more "knock down" or anything else does not matter. Shot location and number of rounds on target does.



Now if you want to hand load, you might get hugely different results. For people buying off the shelf however...............



In my opinion.

Yep. Kinda like a bow set up. Use what you are proficient with and have confidence in.


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[Jeremy7306]

Everyone is right here..

Personally I don't think it matters which round as long as it hits flesh. Is a pistol round, not rifle. It's all personal preference IMO. I prefer my Glock 23. I shoot it just fine, follow up shots are not an issue for me.

Every 9mm vs whatever convo is basically the same. As long as we're all carrying, it's all good!!


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[Randy M]

10mm kicks 9, 40, and 45 booty every day of the week.

[Daniel75]

For my 2¢....

All modern defensive ammo is engineered to land at a certain depth. One round might have a potential to go deeper but they have a hollow point design and the amount of powder needed to land in that fairly narrow range. It really doesn't matter the round (9mm, .357Sig, .40S&W or .45ACP), in various tests by firing into bare gelatin or gelatin after being fired through heavy clothing, auto windshield, wallboard or plywood.... the results are similar.

For example of tests by Federal of their HST rounds....
A 147 9mm through 2 sheets of wallboard (such as inside of a house) expands 1/10 of an inch less than a 230 .45. The 9mm penetrates almost an inch and a half more however. So you trade a slight better penetration for a slight advantage in expansion. The mighty (as some claim) .357Sig goes an inch less than the 9mm and almost a tenth of an inch less expansion. It loses all the way around... but again, not by much.

In the same HST rounds the 9mm beats up the .45 in auto glass (probably more use to the police than home defense) by both going deeper and expanding more. How is that?? Even then though, it is by slight amounts.

In bare gelatin the awesome .40S&W 180 beats the 9mm by 1/10 of an inch in expansion and the exact same penetration. The .357Sig loses all the way around ... but again by 1" less penetration and 2/100ths of an inch in expansion. In my opinion that is statistically about the same. The .45 here is almost exactly tied with the .40. Why are these 4 rounds almost mirror images of each other in result? They are designed that way.

And that is just the way it is. The rounds of today are made to expand the best that they can and land in a range that the FBI determined was good. It doesn't even matter if someone likes the FBI standard, that is what the rounds are designed and loaded for by the factories.

For someone that thinks the .45 penetrates less, that simply isn't true. It matches the others in penetration. For someone that thinks the 9mm has a small hole, that simply isn't true either. It matches the others. In some cases any of the rounds might go slightly deeper or expand slightly more depending on what it had to penetrate to get to the gelatin/target. The 9mm beats all other rounds in wallboard tests in penetration. The .40 expands the most in wallboard. The .45 has the best expansion in bare gelatin and goes deeper in heavy clothing. So it is back and forth on which is "better" at any particular scenario. Flip a coin.

The only realistic difference in the modern ammo is capacity and recoil when shooting modern common brand defensive ammo. That to me translates to how many times it will go bang between mandatory reloads and how fast you can follow up shots on target. Old war stories, what my grandpa shot in WWI, I was told by the old cop at the end of the street, what round claims to have more "knock down" or anything else does not matter. Shot location and number of rounds on target does.

Now if you want to hand load, you might get hugely different results. For people buying off the shelf however...............

In my opinion.

TVC for the win

9mm>all the rest