question to the roofing guys

[texaspacker]

Insurance? It's all a big scam.

[mfarmer]

I done a few roofs for my friends. One reason I think they want to look at the insurance paperwork is because if I go measure it and it’s 45 squares and it turns out to be 47 squares it’s on me. With the insurance takeoff it’s easier and faster to calculate the bid. Then when you’re short 2 squares of shingles it’s easier to get a supplemental claim from the insurance company.

One other thing you can do is go to a roofing supply company and ask them if they know any labor crews. If they don’t wait around and you will find one. Ask the guy for a material quote then add $65 per square for labor. Most of them charge $50-$65 per square tear off, install and haul away. You supply all materials.

Id agree with you... If you measure and bid me 45 and its 47, yes as a roofer, it is on you.

[CoachStanton]

Just go searching around in the internet —- you’ll find out that a majority of these roofing businesses are not businesses at all, but rather just a big scheme.



They have big conventions where they share secrets on how to screw insurance companies, drive up their profits and your premiums, unlawfully act as a public adjuster, and generally act as scumbags.



It’s a huge racket.



Just for fun, we like to look on Craigslist and find a hiring ad and call to see who can make up the most outlandish story and still get hired as a roofing salesman.



Lots of them will hire any felon or drug addict to come to your house and sell you a roof.

Someone has an axe to grind...

I’ve worked as a contractor and in distribution of construction materials and this couldn’t be further from the truth. The guys I know are out trying to make a living, just like the adjuster who gets bonuses off the size of the claim. The adjuster starts adding random crap to get his bonus to the next tier. No one complains about the adjuster unless they deny the claim but they are every bit as responsible for increased premiums as anyone.


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[CoachStanton]

To the original post: Are you in sales? The reason I ask is because full disclosure selling is one of the most important skill sets a salesman can have. You find out as much information as you can from the buyer in order to hold as much profit as possible. That’s how sales driven companies increase profit/income. I work in the lumber industry and I ALWAYS ask what they are paying. They don’t always answer but many times they do. I also ALWAYS ask what’s more important; service, quality or price? Service and quality aren’t cheap. If I can hit their service and quality requirements while being in the ballpark price wise then it should be a win. But don’t be surprised when a sales guy asks what you want to pay.


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[BW96]

ok fellas thanks for all of your comments, input, thoughts, wisdom , and experiences . what I`ve learned from this thread is to find a real , decent , local, and reliable roofing company give them a call and tell them I DONT HAVE INSURANCE and get a cash price , pay for a roof then get back to my life with out all this BS . sounds simple enough. thanks again fellas , I'm done here.

So are you planning to not recover any depreciation? Or are you planning to try and recover it yourself? I guess I don't understand what you're accomplishing unless you're trying to get out of the deductible, if that's the case, good luck.

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[breadman]

So are you planning to not recover any depreciation? Or are you planning to try and recover it yourself? I guess I don't understand what you're accomplishing unless you're trying to get out of the deductible, if that's the case, good luck.

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you don't get it , I'm not planning or trying anything !! if I called you and ask for a price to replace my roof would you give me a price ? or would you try to dig and pry into my personal busisness ? if you get your asking price what else should matter to you ? and why does it matter to you how I pay for it ? isn't payment the same to you if its cash , check , credit card ? and AGAIN the question that I cant seem to get an answer for is IF I called you and said I need a quote to replace my roof would you give an dollar amount first and formost before anymore is said about who is paying for it ? and I'm not throwing all of you roofing guys into the same pot ! I'm sure there is some great roofers out there , I just haven't found them yet ! one more question if someone called you and said i want a new metal roof instead of the shingles they have now just because they like the way new metal roofs look and there shingles were only a year old and in perfect condition , would you quote them a roof or would you talk them out of it because the shingles are in great condition ??

[BW96]

you don't get it , I'm not planning or trying anything !! if I called you and ask for a price to replace my roof would you give me a price ? or would you try to dig and pry into my personal busisness ? if you get your asking price what else should matter to you ? and why does it matter to you how I pay for it ? isn't payment the same to you if its cash , check , credit card ? and AGAIN the question that I cant seem to get an answer for is IF I called you and said I need a quote to replace my roof would you give an dollar amount first and formost before anymore is said about who is paying for it ? and I'm not throwing all of you roofing guys into the same pot ! I'm sure there is some great roofers out there , I just haven't found them yet ! one more question if someone called you and said i want a new metal roof instead of the shingles they have now just because they like the way new metal roofs look and there shingles were only a year old and in perfect condition , would you quote them a roof or would you talk them out of it because the shingles are in great condition ??

I completely get that you want the estimate up front. We are passed that. I will quick beating the dead horse. Have a great day, and good luck with it all! (No this isn't sarcasm lol)

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[Atfulldraw]

Someone has an axe to grind...

I’ve worked as a contractor and in distribution of construction materials and this couldn’t be further from the truth. The guys I know are out trying to make a living, just like the adjuster who gets bonuses off the size of the claim. The adjuster starts adding random crap to get his bonus to the next tier. No one complains about the adjuster unless they deny the claim but they are every bit as responsible for increased premiums as anyone.


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I see you’re a teacher....I’m assuming it isn’t math.....

Even if you are completely correct and the majority of roofers are just good ole boys.....a claim goes from a cash price of 9k to an insurance price of 12k and the net cost goes up 3k.

That’s 3k, right coach? 3k that goes right into the contractors pocket.

Now the adjuster comes along and gets that “bonus” from a claim going up because he artificially inflates the claim adding random stuff (please send me some info on how this is done.... I’ll be waiting) and his “bonus” is a whopping difference of $150 because the claim went from one billing tier to the next.

First, it simply doesn’t happen due to oversight.

I’m the oversight guy at my firm, but what you describe doesn’t happen with enough frequency to even mention. I can enter practically any adjusters estimate into an automated peer review system and get an average variance of less than 5%....we review quantities, line items and then perform reinspections on our adjusters to make sure our estimates are correct. The most common change made to an estimate is to ADD missing line items to make sure the customer is properly compensated.

Second, where is the outrage from the contractors that adjusters are being unethical? Are you upstanding guys just willing to look away while this massive fraud is being conducted?

Third, most adjusters don’t even work on this “bonus system” you are talking about. The vast majority of adjusters, even when we are talking about a big catastrophe, are salary guys or guys that work for a set fee per day. The cat adjuster working a fee schedule is the unicorn in the business.

You may be the only person in the world to ever claim this is the chief reason for higher insurance premiums..... lol

[SoTXAg06]

If you notice a huge jump in premium after you get a roof replaced, shop around. All insurance companies drool over new roofs that they didn't replace. Essentially you can save money on your premium if you do it right

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We did this last year. Old insurance wouldn’t pay for our roof repair as they said it was preexisting when we bought the house. We put a new roof on, and switched insurance companies. Saved us a decent amount of money with the new company.


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[CoachStanton]

[QUOTE=Atfulldraw;13325084]I see you’re a teacher....I’m assuming it isn’t math.....



Even if you are completely correct and the majority of roofers are just good ole boys.....a claim goes from a cash price of 9k to an insurance price of 12k and the net cost goes up 3k.



That’s 3k, right coach? 3k that goes right into the contractors pocket.



Now the adjuster comes along and gets that “bonus” from a claim going up because he artificially inflates the claim adding random stuff (please send me some info on how this is done.... I’ll be waiting) and his “bonus” is a whopping difference of $150 because the claim went from one billing tier to the next.



First, it simply doesn’t happen due to oversight.



I’m the oversight guy at my firm, but what you describe doesn’t happen with enough frequency to even mention. I can enter practically any adjusters estimate into an automated peer review system and get an average variance of less than 5%....we review quantities, line items and then perform reinspections on our adjusters to make sure our estimates are correct. The most common change made to an estimate is to ADD missing line items to make sure the customer is properly compensated.



Second, where is the outrage from the contractors that adjusters are being unethical? Are you upstanding guys just willing to look away while this massive fraud is being conducted?



Third, most adjusters don’t even work on this “bonus system” you are talking about. The vast majority of adjusters, even when we are talking about a big catastrophe, are salary guys or guys that work for a set fee per day. The cat adjuster working a fee schedule is the unicorn in the business.



You may be the only person in the world to ever claim this is the chief reason for higher insurance premiums..... lol

So paying to have a fence pressure washed and stained that is obviously 10 years old and no hail damage isn’t pushing it? What about window screens that have zero damage?

And no roofer is going to complain because he is going to replace those items at a profit.

To the original equation: Why would I do a roof for 9k if I can get 12k for the same roof? That’s bad business and the only way you will know what you can get is to ask. Most reroofs can be done between 50-60% margin. Sure someone may be willing to do it at 25% but not if they can get more. The adjusters set the market and the roofers work with in that market. If they put 3k extra in their pocket, then that’s good business and proof that the market will bear it.


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[Atfulldraw]

Adjusters don’t make most of the calls or decisions you think they do.

The market is telling you via your premium increases that the current system is broken.

That’s largely due to increasing and unjustified construction costs and bull **** lawsuits.

Let another hurricane hit and then there will be a thread crying about huge deductibles and premiums.

[breadman]

I think I got the answer now , A 9K ROOF AND A 12K ROOF are the same roof,, WHO KNEW !!!!!

[CoachStanton]

I think I got the answer now , A 9K ROOF AND A 12K ROOF are the same roof,, WHO KNEW !!!!!

You’re kind of right. I recently purchased a 1/2 ton 4wd truck for $35k. There were a ton of 1/2 ton 4wd trucks listed (similar year and mileage) for much more. Why is that?

This is an over simplification, but it’s similar. Your insurance claim is the sticker price. The roofer, like the car dealer, wants to keep the sales price as close to that as they can. The consumer wants to bring the price down as much as they can. They negotiate a deal and do business. The difference, in most cases, is the home owner does not get to keep the difference. The insurance company does.


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[breadman]

You’re kind of right. I recently purchased a 1/2 ton 4wd truck for $35k. There were a ton of 1/2 ton 4wd trucks listed (similar year and mileage) for much more. Why is that?

This is an over simplification, but it’s similar. Your insurance claim is the sticker price. The roofer, like the car dealer, wants to keep the sales price as close to that as they can. The consumer wants to bring the price down as much as they can. They negotiate a deal and do business. The difference, in most cases, is the home owner does not get to keep the difference. The insurance company does.


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I understand that process and what your saying . but my case is a bit different. my insurance company has already given me the check minus my deductible to replace my shingled roof. but I want to upgrade to a metal roof wich is more $$$ so I will be paying the difference my self . I`ve had the same insurance company for decades and they have taken very good care of me with no complaints at all . so the door to my insurance is CLOSED and the door to my wallet is opened . but the roofers I`ve incountered all insist on trying to involve my insurance company before giving me a quote . and I do not and will not involve my insurance company any futher. so as a customer my thoughts of good salesman and a good sales approach would be to quote a replacment cost of the existing roof and use your sales ability to up grade the customer to a better quality of roof with different quality of products , warranty etc. and again if I had no insurance and just wanted a new roof would it be a different approach from the roofer/SALESMAN ? when my water heater burst and ruined my floors I had none of these issues with the flooring companys . they gave me quotes and I liked one of them and I payed for it . and yes I upgraded my floors and paid the difference out of my pocket . so now do you see my point in all of this ? thanks to all you guys for our input these threads are informative and very entertaining . but we should stop this thread here because I don't foresee me changing my thoughts or ways of handling my business . thanks again to all you guys roofers/salesmen included.

[Tshelly]

I understand that process and what your saying . but my case is a bit different. my insurance company has already given me the check minus my deductible to replace my shingled roof. but I want to upgrade to a metal roof wich is more $$$ so I will be paying the difference my self . I`ve had the same insurance company for decades and they have taken very good care of me with no complaints at all . so the door to my insurance is CLOSED and the door to my wallet is opened . but the roofers I`ve incountered all insist on trying to involve my insurance company before giving me a quote . and I do not and will not involve my insurance company any futher. so as a customer my thoughts of good salesman and a good sales approach would be to quote a replacment cost of the existing roof and use your sales ability to up grade the customer to a better quality of roof with different quality of products , warranty etc. and again if I had no insurance and just wanted a new roof would it be a different approach from the roofer/SALESMAN ? when my water heater burst and ruined my floors I had none of these issues with the flooring companys . they gave me quotes and I liked one of them and I payed for it . and yes I upgraded my floors and paid the difference out of my pocket . so now do you see my point in all of this ? thanks to all you guys for our input these threads are informative and very entertaining . but we should stop this thread here because I don't foresee me changing my thoughts or ways of handling my business . thanks again to all you guys roofers/salesmen included.

Do you want a metal roof? That’s what we specialize in.. just let me look at your paperwork and we’ll get you taken care lol. Just kidding!! But if you do want a quote on a standing seam roof with a lifetime leak free warranty pm me.

http://allstarroofsystems.com

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