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Old 12-25-2015, 09:40 AM   #51
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6.5 cm
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Old 12-25-2015, 10:13 AM   #52
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Default 10 - 700 yd hog gun

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Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post
Long range hunting bullets:
http://discussions.texasbowhunter.co...d.php?t=568690

Hey Ragin, First off Merry Christmas!!!

I know you from some of my other threads.
Everyone says you're extremely knowledgeable about Broadheads. Which I am insanely jealous of btw

I take your comments seriously just like I do muddyfuzzys' when it come to arrow building.


The thread I linked to recommends to stay away from Berbers...
I'm in the hunt or a 300WM or 300WSM. See my previous post
So all this blah blah blah to ask u this? Will you expound on your answer?

You can find bad experiences with any bullet. But majority results speak for themselves. The deal with Berger is you need the right twist and the ogive on that bullet likes to be closer to the rifling. But like Mike D posted in this thread Long range hunting bullets
http://discussions.texasbowhunter.co...d.php?t=568690 There are more. Personally I like Swifts! I'm not the biggest Barnes fan in the world for whitetail sized critters. That's based on my experiences with em. Which I hated because my 270 shot a 5 shot .293 with em.

Last edited by JW; 12-25-2015 at 10:16 AM..
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Old 12-25-2015, 10:24 AM   #53
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Swap to a Berger. It has a lower working range.
That's what I'm shooting now. Very high bc, insanely accurate and are stone cold killers. My only concern is a lack of blood trail if you happen to get an animal to run more than 20 yards.
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Old 12-25-2015, 10:30 AM   #54
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That's what I'm shooting now. Very high bc, insanely accurate and are stone cold killers. My only concern is a lack of blood trail if you happen to get an animal to run more than 20 yards.

Not getting an exit?
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Old 12-25-2015, 12:52 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Ragin' View Post
You can find bad experiences with any bullet. But majority results speak for themselves. The deal with Berger is you need the right twist and the ogive on that bullet likes to be closer to the rifling. But like Mike D posted in this thread Long range hunting bullets
http://discussions.texasbowhunter.co...d.php?t=568690 There are more. Personally I like Swifts! I'm not the biggest Barnes fan in the world for whitetail sized critters. That's based on my experiences with em. Which I hated because my 270 shot a 5 shot .293 with em.

What's a good twist rate? Rifle I'm looking at Saturday has a 1:10 per MFR website...

Not sure what ogive is. I'm guessing it's a typo
Unfortunately I don't know that much about rifles and bullets yet to be able to cypher it
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Old 12-25-2015, 01:13 PM   #56
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Any of this calibers are great but I would stay away from the AR-10. In my opinion they are to big and bulky. I love Remington 700 and have one in 243 that is a tad driver
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Old 12-25-2015, 02:38 PM   #57
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Default 10 - 700 yd hog gun

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Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post
What's a good twist rate? Rifle I'm looking at Saturday has a 1:10 per MFR website...

Not sure what ogive is. I'm guessing it's a typo
Unfortunately I don't know that much about rifles and bullets yet to be able to cypher it

No Ogive is a term. Bullet shape. And on twist it depends on what caliber and what grain bullet you want. They have a chart and a calculator for it. And can you shoot 700 yards? Because what you're wanting does not sound like a 700 yard setup.
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Old 12-25-2015, 02:46 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Ragin' View Post
No Ogive is a term. Bullet shape. And on twist it depends on what caliber and what grain bullet you want. They have a chart and a calculator for it. And can you shoot 700 yards? Because what you're wanting does not sound like a 700 yard setup.

Can I shoot 700 yards? Not yet
I have shot 500 with iron sights in the Marines
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Old 12-25-2015, 03:09 PM   #59
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Default 10 - 700 yd hog gun

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Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post
Can I shoot 700 yards? Not yet
I have shot 500 with iron sights in the Marines

Whole different deal. You're trying to place a bullet in a few inch circle on an animal. Not hit a torso on a person. You'll be money ahead getting away from these budget rifles if that's what you're wanting to do. Like the upper end Savages.

Last edited by JW; 12-25-2015 at 03:18 PM..
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Old 12-25-2015, 08:02 PM   #60
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Whole different deal. You're trying to place a bullet in a few inch circle on an animal. Not hit a torso on a person. You'll be money ahead getting away from these budget rifles if that's what you're wanting to do. Like the upper end Savages.

I've got my eye on a Savage Model 12 VLP in 300WSM
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12VLPDBM
Will this fit the bill?
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Old 12-25-2015, 09:38 PM   #61
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Default 10 - 700 yd hog gun

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Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post
I've got my eye on a Savage Model 12 VLP in 300WSM
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12VLPDBM
Will this fit the bill?

Yes I've shot one of those before. That's a much better long range platform vs that other stuff you're looking at. If I remember right the 12's Accutrigger goes down to 1.5 lbs.
You can also send that bolt to Twisted Barrel and get a sharp looking bolt knob put on it. It really dresses those Savages up.
That rifle showed to have a 1:10 twist. That's good. If you run a 210 Berger BLD at 2750 fps here are the Twist Rate Calculator results.




This is for a 1:10 twist and a 168 Berger VLD at 3100 fps


Last edited by JW; 12-25-2015 at 10:15 PM..
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Old 12-25-2015, 10:04 PM   #62
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7mm short mag
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Old 12-25-2015, 10:13 PM   #63
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7mm short mag

Its not offered in the rifle he is looking at.
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Old 12-27-2015, 02:29 PM   #64
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This is the MFR picture of the gun I'm buying.

Mine has a Pentax Game Keeper 30 8.5-32X50 scope and a bipod.

It's chambered in 300 WSM

Name:  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1451244705.856859.jpg
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Old 12-27-2015, 02:33 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post
This is the MFR picture of the gun I'm buying.

Mine has a Pentax Game Keeper 30 8.5-32X50 scope and a bipod.

It's chambered in 300 WSM

Attachment 764620

That scope have exposed MOA elevation and windage adjustment?
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:37 PM   #66
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Yes
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:42 PM   #67
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Yes

So you are buying that gun or you already have it?
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:56 PM   #68
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So you are buying that gun or you already have it?

I have it on layaway
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Old 12-27-2015, 04:49 PM   #69
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I have it on layaway

Awesome. You will enjoy that.
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:48 PM   #70
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Awesome. You will enjoy that.

Thanks! I'm hoping too!
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Old 12-29-2015, 10:09 PM   #71
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Long range shooting and long range killing are two totally different things. 700 yards is right on the edge of where reliable killing is for certain.
Yeah, same here, I would never shoot at an animal at 700 yards; too much risk of a wound and a suffering animal running away. If I'm not 100% sure of a bangflop, I don't take the shot.
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Old 12-29-2015, 10:37 PM   #72
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Default 10 - 700 yd hog gun

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Originally Posted by Ruark View Post
Yeah, same here, I would never shoot at an animal at 700 yards; too much risk of a wound and a suffering animal running away. If I'm not 100% sure of a bangflop, I don't take the shot.

Well than don't check out Ballisticstudies.com he's got videos posted of 1000+ yd shots ....
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Old 12-29-2015, 10:42 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post

Well than don't check out Ballisticstudies.com he's got videos posted of 1000+ yd shots ....

*Then


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Old 12-31-2015, 09:36 AM   #74
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Default 10 - 700 yd hog gun

Umm
Ragin'
I'm playing with this http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/. I select the bullet 30 caliber 168 Berger Match VLD change diameter from .308 to .300 it says the bullets are unstable recommended twist 1:7 but my guns 1:10

Here's a screen shot of the 155 grain Berger
Name:  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1451572882.273078.jpg
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Last edited by Pushbutton2; 12-31-2015 at 09:52 AM..
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Old 12-31-2015, 09:57 AM   #75
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Default 10 - 700 yd hog gun

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Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post
Umm
Ragin'
I'm playing with this http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/. I select the bullet 30 caliber 168 Berger Match VLD change diameter from .308 to .300 it says the bullets are unstable recommended twist 1:7 but my guns 1:10

Here's a screen shot of the 155 grain Berger
Attachment 765355

You've got all kinds of stuff wrong in that calculator.

First of all .308 is the diameter of the Bullet on a 300 WSM. Secondly it looks like you have the diameter set to mm.

168 grain VLD doesn't need a 1:7 twist unless it's maybe subsonic in 300 blackout.

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Old 12-31-2015, 10:07 AM   #76
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This is what it should look like.

Your velocity is way off for a 300 WSM too.

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Old 12-31-2015, 10:44 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
You've got all kinds of stuff wrong in that calculator.

First of all .308 is the diameter of the Bullet on a 300 WSM. Secondly it looks like you have the diameter set to mm.

168 grain VLD doesn't need a 1:7 twist unless it's maybe subsonic in 300 blackout.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
This is what it should look like.

Your velocity is way off for a 300 WSM too.


Thank you!!

I'm new new to this.
Will this be a good bullet for my intended purposes, killing out to 700yd occasionally, killing inside 300 frequently. Or do I need better stability?
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Old 12-31-2015, 10:50 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post
Thank you!!

I'm new new to this.
Will this be a good bullet for my intended purposes, killing out to 700yd occasionally, killing inside 300 frequently. Or do I need better stability?

168 will work. But at that range I would feel a lot better with 200+.
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Old 12-31-2015, 10:52 AM   #79
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Can you load a 200gn in WSM?
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Old 12-31-2015, 10:54 AM   #80
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Default 10 - 700 yd hog gun

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Can you load a 200gn in WSM?

Is it a 205? You'll have to have it checked as far as bullet seat depth. Those bullets are long. It may work or you may have to drop to the 185. Also Bergers like to be set up **** near on the rifling. Normally 10 thousandths off. You'll have to play with it. But don't start at 50 thousandths. That's because they are a Secant Ogive (shape of the bullet).
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:00 AM   #81
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6.5 Grendel in an AR type rifle
This what I am planning to go with.

If not, it's hard to beat the .308 for accuracy out to 600 yards.
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:06 AM   #82
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This what I am planning to go with.



If not, it's hard to beat the .308 for accuracy out to 600 yards.

Any 6.5
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Old 12-31-2015, 02:13 PM   #83
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Just as an fyi that thread i started about long range hunting bullets was based off the idea of shooting those bullets i asked about out of the exact same rifle you are looking to buy with that savage 12 vlp in the 300 wsm. My research is showing that with handloads and a 26 inch barrel like the savage has you should be able to get around 3000 fps out of that rifle shooting 180 gr class of bullets like the 175 barnes lrx. That bullet out of my calculations should in theory have enough speed to still be able to expand out to 800 yards which is well over your 700 yard need.
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Old 12-31-2015, 02:57 PM   #84
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Just as an fyi that thread i started about long range hunting bullets was based off the idea of shooting those bullets i asked about out of the exact same rifle you are looking to buy with that savage 12 vlp in the 300 wsm. My research is showing that with handloads and a 26 inch barrel like the savage has you should be able to get around 3000 fps out of that rifle shooting 180 gr class of bullets like the 175 barnes lrx. That bullet out of my calculations should in theory have enough speed to still be able to expand out to 800 yards which is well over your 700 yard need.

I think I've seen that thread :-)
:thumbup:
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Old 12-31-2015, 03:48 PM   #85
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Is it a 205? You'll have to have it checked as far as bullet seat depth. Those bullets are long. It may work or you may have to drop to the 185. Also Bergers like to be set up **** near on the rifling. Normally 10 thousandths off. You'll have to play with it. But don't start at 50 thousandths. That's because they are a Secant Ogive (shape of the bullet).
http://www.bergerbullets.com/vld-making-shoot/
Here is a link to an article describing finding the optimum distance to the lands for your specific gun with vld's. While they found jamming into the lands is extremely consistent, they also describe a method to keep accuracy with a longer jump. It's a good read by an expert for sure.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/effects...e-cbto-part-1/
Here is part one to a 2 part read concerning cartridge length by the same author. Once again expert ballistician and a great read. Part 2 can be found linked on there somewhere.
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Old 12-31-2015, 03:57 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by BTGuard View Post
http://www.bergerbullets.com/vld-making-shoot/
Here is a link to an article describing finding the optimum distance to the lands for your specific gun with vld's. While they found jamming into the lands is extremely consistent, they also describe a method to keep accuracy with a longer jump. It's a good read by an expert for sure.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/effects...e-cbto-part-1/
Here is part one to a 2 part read concerning cartridge length by the same author. Once again expert ballistician and a great read. Part 2 can be found linked on there somewhere.

Thanks! I'll save this and get back to it to read.
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Old 12-31-2015, 06:04 PM   #87
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Thank you!!

I'm new new to this.
Will this be a good bullet for my intended purposes, killing out to 700yd occasionally, killing inside 300 frequently. Or do I need better stability?

If it were me on a magnum I would step up to the 175 or 185 grain bullets. But being that it's a WSM and not a regular Wam that may not be an option since you will start limiting powder capacity.

That's where the regular swam shines over the WSM. It's just much more flexible.
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Old 12-31-2015, 08:24 PM   #88
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If it were me on a magnum I would step up to the 175 or 185 grain bullets. But being that it's a WSM and not a regular Wam that may not be an option since you will start limiting powder capacity.

That's where the regular swam shines over the WSM. It's just much more flexible.
What bullets do you use at 175 gr? To me it seems the 30 Cal selection Drops off drastically for hunting bullets after 168 grain.
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Old 12-31-2015, 08:36 PM   #89
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Default 10 - 700 yd hog gun

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What bullets do you use at 175 gr? To me it seems the 30 Cal selection Drops off drastically for hunting bullets after 168 grain.

I use Berger 175s in my 308 and Berger 190s and 210s in my 300 Win Mag. They also offer a 185 grain as well.
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Old 12-31-2015, 10:48 PM   #90
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I use Berger 175s in my 308 and Berger 190s and 210s in my 300 Win Mag. They also offer a 185 grain as well.
Are the 175 gr match or hunting? I looked at the local sporting goods store and couldn't find a 175 hunting to save my life! But I'm half blind at times so I might if just missed it!
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:04 PM   #91
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Default 10 - 700 yd hog gun

http://www.bergerbullets.com/products/hunting-bullets/
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:12 PM   #92
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Knew I was blind! Must not have carried them there. O well 168 will work just fine for what I'm doing.
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:34 PM   #93
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I was playing with their stability calculator. The 168s show to have the best stability for me....
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:36 PM   #94
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I was playing with their stability calculator. The 168s show to have the best stability for me....
Very well possible. The numbers looked good for me also. Seems like a good middle of the road weight.
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:39 PM   #95
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Default 10 - 700 yd hog gun

I was reading this page too. I might go with the hunter classic

http://www.bergerbullets.com/informa...e-and-designs/

Last edited by Pushbutton2; 12-31-2015 at 11:40 PM.. Reason: Added hyperlink
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:54 PM   #96
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I was reading this page too. I might go with the hunter classic

http://www.bergerbullets.com/informa...e-and-designs/

Why? You're wanting an optimum long range bullet. Not that the classic won't work. But it's no VLD.
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:42 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Ragin' View Post
Why? You're wanting an optimum long range bullet. Not that the classic won't work. But it's no VLD.

Did you read the article?
Here's how I understand it. I'm probably wrong though...


It's their answer the SAAMI std.
I don't know the overall length of the chamber of the rifle.
It has a different ogive and length to have a shorter COAL to be used in a factory rifle with a magazine. The Savage 12 VLP has an internal 4 red magazine...
O
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:47 AM   #98
BTGuard
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Did you read the article?
Here's how I understand it. I'm probably wrong though...


It's their answer the SAAMI std.
I don't know the overall length of the chamber of the rifle.
It has a different ogive and length to have a shorter COAL to be used in a factory rifle with a magazine. The Savage 12 VLP has an internal 4 red magazine...
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While the vld is longer you can still load it to fit factory mag wells with good accuracy. While the classic hunter may be easier to do this with the vld results should be much more rewarding. Trial and error would be the only way to find out for sure. The article loading the vld should help discover that "sweet spot" so to speak. If you buy a box of 168 gr vld I know a place you could get rid of them if they don't work
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:50 AM   #99
Pushbutton2
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While the vld is longer you can still load it to fit factory mag wells with good accuracy. While the classic hunter may be easier to do this with the vld results should be much more rewarding. Trial and error would be the only way to find out for sure. The article loading the vld should help discover that "sweet spot" so to speak. If you buy a box of 168 gr vld I know a place you could get rid of them if they don't work

LOL!!!
I'm looking forward to finding out :-)
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:57 AM   #100
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LOL!!!
I'm looking forward to finding out :-)
Good luck! Keep us updated.
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