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    Originally posted by Hornet Hunter View Post
    I'm not offended. I don't get offended. If I did I certainly couldn't have made it this long in education. Having said that, I don't and can't in my business tell people their statements are ignorant. My point is, people and parents do this to us all the time. We just have to grin and bare it.

    We live in the same county. I'd love to get together for a visit some time. Truth be known, we probably know each other. I just get pretty passionate when people bash the profession that I dearly love.
    Glad your not offended, that was not intent. I also hope I'm not coming across as bashing the profession. I respect the profession and the passion some have for it. But, until changes are made I'm not encouraging my kids to go into the public school teacher route. By changes I mean politiction's backing the school dist., district admins backing teachers against poor parents and students who think it's ok to disrespect the teachers authority. I don't know why a school dist. Will easily throw a teacher under the bus but they do. Like I mentioned already. Parents not raising respectful kids are the problem.
    I'd have no problem sitting around the fire with you....if I could find some time

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      It was here on the news the other night, that in this area the average teacher makes 50,000- 70,000 a year. They get Summer's off, health insurance, and a retirement plan. That is not bad pay, I work my *** off ( HVAC) 12 months a year, and make less then that, and no retirement, no insurance. Makes me wish I could strike.
      Last edited by critter69; 04-20-2018, 03:14 PM.

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        Originally posted by critter69 View Post
        It was here on the news the other night, that in this area the average teacher makes 50,000- 70,000 a year. They get Summer's off, health insurance, and a retirement plan. That is not bad pay, I work my *** off ( HVAC) 12 months a year, and make less then that, and no retirement, no insurance. Makes me wish I could strike.
        Not sure what world that came from. 20-30 year veterans in Texas only make $45,510. We pay our own health insurance. And the retirement sucks. No social security. And can't have your dead spouses benefits.

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          Originally posted by flywise View Post
          I not even remotely "rich" and yet my wife drives our kids to a home school private christian school combo 50 miles away in her new car. I work 2 jobs, my wife went from making 60k or more an year to 20k just so she can home school the kids 3 days a week. We pay 7k a year for their private school so they can have a better atmosphere for learning. Add up the lost revenue, tuition, and fuel this school cost us more than 30k a year. We make sacrifices for our kids. A whole lot parents will not make sacrifices for their kids, will not make sure to buy their kids school supplies or even make sure they are fed. I know its not the fault of the teachers, I know the teachers have no recourse, I know that way to many kids are distracting the rest of the class and i know that when told many parents blame the school and the teacher for their ****ty kids. But to say only the rich will benefit from private /voucher systems is ignorant. Everywhere it has been tried already the results prove with out a doubt everyone benefits.
          And you still get to pay the taxes for the public school that you don't use because you are trying to do the best for your kids. To me, that is the real slap in the face.

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            Originally posted by Hornet Hunter View Post
            Not sure what world that came from. 20-30 year veterans in Texas only make $45,510. We pay our own health insurance. And the retirement sucks. No social security. And can't have your dead spouses benefits.

            I'm sure teacher retirement varies greatly between states, but in Texas, compared to the average worker in the private sector that pays social security on top of 401k, it's not a bad retirement package.

            Also, the no social security argument is a weak considering you don't pay into it to begin with. As is paying for insurance, considering many private sector folks pay for their coverage (or at least a percentage of it) as well.

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              I will say teachers pay and benefits are below what they should be. Anyone that is saying they have such a good benefit and pay package go teach.

              As far as athletic programs- Most of these teams are funded by parents and boosters. And without these programs many kids would drop out. Sports programs and other extra activities promote leadership and dedication. I guess you guys would be fine getting rid of FFA, speech, band, and all fine arts clubs and activities as well. Why not see how many kids we can get uninterested in school and drop out so we can pay less taxes and maybe spend it on something life changing and important like a new bow for ourselves?

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                Originally posted by Playa View Post
                Conservatives generally believe in a free market. If you don’t like your compensation go do something that will earn what you think you are worth.
                Why does that "something" not include negotiating your pay with your employer and organizing with others of the same mind to do it?
                That's part of the free market as well.

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                  And CaptainDave- not sure how many people with a Bachelors degree or Masters degrees make less than our educators. I would say they are about bottom for highly educated professionals. And nope- not one teacher in my family.

                  Tug Boat Captains average income in Texas is over $120k and they do not have to attend over 4 years of higher education.
                  Last edited by glen; 04-20-2018, 03:56 PM.

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                    Originally posted by meltingfeather View Post
                    Why does that "something" not include negotiating your pay with your employer and organizing with others of the same mind to do it?
                    That's part of the free market as well.
                    Because you signed a contract that outlined the compensation. Uphold your contract, don’t welch on it after the fact

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                      I’ve seen the results of the free market firsthand. Back in 2008 I was working for a government agency that didn’t pay much. That, coupled with overall bad morale, led to about 15% of the workers leaving for other places. Within short order the money issue was fixed. While I feel bad for teachers and think they should be paid more, there is an unending stream of young folks with stars in their eyes willing to fill the holes. It doesn’t seem like you ever hear of a shortage of teachers.

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                        There is an online article at texastribube.com right now regarding teacher pay and benefits. Although the title of the article says Texas teachers pay is average, it goes on to say that is based on rank - 27th out of 50 states. Annual average salary is $6500 below national average, however. And retirement pension is dead last. Texas contributes 6.8% towards retirement. The next lowest state contributor is more than double that. I think we can all find fault with our state's education system, but I think we would also all agree that Texas is too wealthy a state to rank at or near the bottom of teacher funding and the lack of financial commitment to its teachers is part of the problem with our current system.

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                          I have 7 teachers in my family and have never heard them complain about their salary. The other stuff, parents, Principals, etc, not backing them is another subject.

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                            Originally posted by WItoTX View Post
                            Agree with the footing the bill part. However, lets start at docking the superintendent level pay before we raise taxes, lets stop building schools that are LEED certified and are small cities with cutting edge architecture, lets stop building dumb *** football stadiums for no reason, and once that is done, work our way down before we go and hammer the teacher who is just trying to help kids make something of themselves.

                            A good teacher is worth their weight in gold.

                            That’s the smartest thing I’ve heard all day.

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                              Who cares? I don't live in Arizona nor do most of you.

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                                The more I read the responses on this thread the more I understand the concept,
                                "You can't fix stupid". Some people just can't or won't understand another person's situation no matter how you explain it to them. Waste of time

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