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Old 08-19-2018, 03:28 AM   #551
justletmein
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Kiddo pulled youth either sex at Matagorda Island. Very exciting we've been putting in for that hunt like 7 years in a row now.
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:31 AM   #552
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Originally Posted by bossbowman View Post
I agree, the way the state hunts are structured now those that thrown the most money at it are getting the spoils, that should not be the case for state and federal lands.
Not sure that's true. I've put in for literally almost every category for 6 or 7 years and yet to ever draw a hunt for myself. Several youth hunts now for hog and deer which were great and wife pulled a refuge hunt but I believe that was an e-postcard draw iirc. Her and I have 5, 6, or 7 pref points across the board from Alligator to Spring Turkey. Just unlucky I guess.
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:42 AM   #553
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Originally Posted by sqiggy View Post
A lot of folks here started applying "in the new system" and got drawn, so they think it's great.
But, in the old system, where you had to put your ONE egg into ONE basket, the odds of getting drawn were sooooooooooooo much better, unless you put in for the high end places like the Chap.
I haven't drawn a hunt in the new system yet, whereas I drew a hunt every 2 or 3 years in the old.
I am convinced the new system is weighted heavily to 1st time applicants, likely for exactly like you say they think it's great and will continue to apply. Can't count how many posts I've read here and 2cool where a 1st time applicant score 2 or 3 hints his 1st year.
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:07 AM   #554
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Well it isn’t September so.....
Dang, I’m getting old.........
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:12 AM   #555
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Originally Posted by justletmein View Post
I am convinced the new system is weighted heavily to 1st time applicants, likely for exactly like you say they think it's great and will continue to apply. Can't count how many posts I've read here and 2cool where a 1st time applicant score 2 or 3 hints his 1st year.
I have already gone 3 for 12 this year and have been putting in since 2004. I have had good luck under both the new and old systems. Last year was the first time since 2012 that I hadn't drawn anything.
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:44 AM   #556
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Question- for those that get selected in more than one category and those that seems to get selected for at least one hunt almost every year, how many times are y’all applying? I
Have been applying every year since the mid 2000’s and have only been selected once. But I usually only apply for around 5-6 hunts. For example this year I put in fr 3 archery hunts, and 3 GDE drawings. Should I apply for more hunts to better my odds? I’ve read some people have paid in over $100 in fees. I was trying to avoid that. Also i am usually to only one applying, would my odds go up if I had other hunters names submitted on my entry?
I’m Just trying to get a better grip on this because evidently what I been doing for years hasn’t been working. Especially when I read about how many have been selected multiple timesz
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Old 08-19-2018, 10:00 AM   #557
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Originally Posted by marshman View Post
Question- for those that get selected in more than one category and those that seems to get selected for at least one hunt almost every year, how many times are yíall applying? I
Have been applying every year since the mid 2000ís and have only been selected once. But I usually only apply for around 5-6 hunts. For example this year I put in fr 3 archery hunts, and 3 GDE drawings. Should I apply for more hunts to better my odds? Iíve read some people have paid in over $100 in fees. I was trying to avoid that. Also i am usually to only one applying, would my odds go up if I had other hunters names submitted on my entry?
Iím Just trying to get a better grip on this because evidently what I been doing for years hasnít been working. Especially when I read about how many have been selected multiple timesz


This year I applied for 7 archery hunts and 9 rifle hunts. Won an archery hunt this year and one rifle hunt last year. All of the rifle hunts have my name and my dads. Archery was only mine this year.


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Old 08-19-2018, 10:09 AM   #558
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So, if you put in for 9 different GDE hunts and do not get drawn, do you get 9 preference points or just 1?
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Old 08-19-2018, 10:34 AM   #559
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Originally Posted by Greenheadless View Post
So, if you put in for 9 different GDE hunts and do not get drawn, do you get 9 preference points or just 1?
One. It is by category, not hunt.
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Old 08-19-2018, 10:42 AM   #560
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Originally Posted by marshman View Post
Question- for those that get selected in more than one category and those that seems to get selected for at least one hunt almost every year, how many times are yíall applying? I
Have been applying every year since the mid 2000ís and have only been selected once. But I usually only apply for around 5-6 hunts. For example this year I put in fr 3 archery hunts, and 3 GDE drawings. Should I apply for more hunts to better my odds? Iíve read some people have paid in over $100 in fees. I was trying to avoid that. Also i am usually to only one applying, would my odds go up if I had other hunters names submitted on my entry?
Iím Just trying to get a better grip on this because evidently what I been doing for years hasnít been working. Especially when I read about how many have been selected multiple timesz
I'll put in for several in some categories and one in others. I have drawn some hunts that were hard to get before and after the change in systems. If you only put in for the hard to draw hunts you will be often disappointed. I may spend a couple of hundred a year between the draw hunts and the Big Time hunts. On the $3 draws I will probably spend $100 to $150 for me and my BIL.
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Old 08-19-2018, 11:08 AM   #561
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Originally Posted by marshman View Post
Question- for those that get selected in more than one category and those that seems to get selected for at least one hunt almost every year, how many times are yíall applying? I
Have been applying every year since the mid 2000ís and have only been selected once. But I usually only apply for around 5-6 hunts. For example this year I put in fr 3 archery hunts, and 3 GDE drawings. Should I apply for more hunts to better my odds? Iíve read some people have paid in over $100 in fees. I was trying to avoid that. Also i am usually to only one applying, would my odds go up if I had other hunters names submitted on my entry?
Iím Just trying to get a better grip on this because evidently what I been doing for years hasnít been working. Especially when I read about how many have been selected multiple timesz
Yes, I spend at least a couple of hundred dollars a year on applications and I have been drawn for at least one hunt per year since the new system started. I also applied for many years in the old system and accumulated a ton of preference points in various categories. Just like most things in life, you have to pay to play. It is still way cheaper than a lease. I've also been able to hunt some awesome hunts in some beautiful parts of Texas.

Although there is always room for improvement, I really believe that the TPWD is trying to make it as fair as they can, yet still make money for conservation.
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:49 PM   #562
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Originally Posted by bossbowman View Post
I agree, the way the state hunts are structured now those that thrown the most money at it are getting the spoils, that should not be the case for state and federal lands.


How do you figure that? Itís a lottery. You can only buy one ticket per place per year.


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Old 08-19-2018, 06:45 PM   #563
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Originally Posted by jdunn6092 View Post
How do you figure that? Itís a lottery. You can only buy one ticket per place per year.


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Up until a few years ago you could only apply once for each category. Now you can apply to every hunt in every category.

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Old 08-19-2018, 09:50 PM   #564
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Some donít like the system, but look around Tbh right now and read how many guys have been putting in for certain hunts for yrs with no success and got drawn this yr, I bet they think that new system is pretty good.
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Old 08-19-2018, 10:02 PM   #565
txhushlife
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Default Gus Engeling

Got drawn for Gus Engeling for first time, doing a little research on it seems to draw up some pretty nice size bucks...waiting on 2nd draw for everything else. Anyone have any tips on Gus please send my way, i hunted laguna Atascosa and Lower rio grand valley- east lake unit last year.
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Old 08-19-2018, 10:15 PM   #566
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Originally Posted by KactusKiller View Post
Some don’t like the system, but look around Tbh right now and read how many guys have been putting in for certain hunts for yrs with no success and got drawn this yr, I bet they think that new system is pretty good.
Most winners like the game they're playing, doesn't mean the game doesn't suck

I won this year.. I still think, er, know Texas is one of the worst draws in the country.. I'd probably take it over California and Maine.. That's about it.. That's when you know it's sad/pitiful, when you barely beat California

Has nothing to do with amount of apps or increasing number of hunters or limited public land.. Those are just excuses.. Has to do with BS system, period.. Current system is a pure money grab, plain and simple.. It's basically not a draw, just a raffle

Last edited by Deers & Beers; 08-19-2018 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 08-19-2018, 10:37 PM   #567
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Originally Posted by Deers & Beers View Post
Most winners like the game they're playing, doesn't mean the game doesn't suck

I won this year.. I still think, er, know Texas is one of the worst draws in the country.. I'd probably take it over California and Maine.. That's about it.. That's when you know it's sad/pitiful, when you barely beat California

Has nothing to do with amount of apps or increasing number of hunters or limited public land.. Those are just excuses.. Has to do with BS system, period.. Current system is a pure money grab, plain and simple.. It's basically not a draw, just a raffle
Sad but true! I’ve got 11 points GDE and 9 Archery. I hope to with the “raffle” one of these years

Last edited by hweissert; 08-19-2018 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 08-20-2018, 10:54 AM   #568
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Just got off the phone with texas parks and wild life and preference points don't matter, they "better," your odds but do not determine getting drawn like other states. Just to clarify for everyone asking.
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Old 08-20-2018, 11:14 AM   #569
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Originally Posted by txhushlife View Post
Got drawn for Gus Engeling for first time, doing a little research on it seems to draw up some pretty nice size bucks...waiting on 2nd draw for everything else. Anyone have any tips on Gus please send my way, i hunted laguna Atascosa and Lower rio grand valley- east lake unit last year.


I havenít hunted Engeling but am interested in Atascosa. Got drawn this year for Nov.


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Old 08-20-2018, 11:18 AM   #570
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Originally Posted by Deers & Beers View Post
Most winners like the game they're playing, doesn't mean the game doesn't suck

I won this year.. I still think, er, know Texas is one of the worst draws in the country.. I'd probably take it over California and Maine.. That's about it.. That's when you know it's sad/pitiful, when you barely beat California

Has nothing to do with amount of apps or increasing number of hunters or limited public land.. Those are just excuses.. Has to do with BS system, period.. Current system is a pure money grab, plain and simple.. It's basically not a draw, just a raffle
If they put you in charge of the system and gave you the power to change it up however you see fit, what would the new system that you'd set up look like?
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Old 08-20-2018, 11:34 AM   #571
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Originally Posted by Deers & Beers View Post
Most winners like the game they're playing, doesn't mean the game doesn't suck

I won this year.. I still think, er, know Texas is one of the worst draws in the country.. I'd probably take it over California and Maine.. That's about it.. That's when you know it's sad/pitiful, when you barely beat California

Has nothing to do with amount of apps or increasing number of hunters or limited public land.. Those are just excuses.. Has to do with BS system, period.. Current system is a pure money grab, plain and simple.. It's basically not a draw, just a raffle
Yeah thatís all it is, system is screwed up for sure. People need to start contacting the state to try and get change implemented.
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Old 08-20-2018, 11:35 AM   #572
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Originally Posted by SolocamShooter View Post
Yeah thatís all it is, system is screwed up for sure. People need to start contacting the state to try and get change implemented.
What kind of change should we be asking for, specifically?
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Old 08-20-2018, 11:49 AM   #573
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Originally Posted by Shane View Post
If they put you in charge of the system and gave you the power to change it up however you see fit, what would the new system that you'd set up look like?
3 choices per category (I think that's a fair compromise)

NRs require hunting license to apply OR increase individual app prices for them (example: $8 per app & $15 per private/guided give or take). The $5 change on Sheep alone (when the hunt is offered) should bring in an extra $50k

Preference Point only option for each category

Remove ridiculous credit card & administrative fees on draws, big time tickets, and online licenses

Increase apps to $5 from $3 and private/guided fees to $12 from $10. Should help offset 3 choices per category and not charging CC/admin fees

**I do love the 3 choices per category for Youth and Annual Permit required for E-postcards changes. A step in the right direction, they just need to keep it going...

***I don't mind the actual current draw system, 1 point per name in the hat. Some people want to square points like Montana. Either way is fine for me, but I do prefer the current system. I don't want a "max point" system. To me it just doesn't matter too much. As long as categories are limited and people actually have to make choices for where the want to hunt like they used to (and like every other state) I think the odds will help everyone. Low and high point holders..

Last edited by Deers & Beers; 08-20-2018 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 08-20-2018, 11:51 AM   #574
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Originally Posted by justletmein View Post
I am convinced the new system is weighted heavily to 1st time applicants, likely for exactly like you say they think it's great and will continue to apply. Can't count how many posts I've read here and 2cool where a 1st time applicant score 2 or 3 hints his 1st year.
I put in for just about every category too but usually just one or two hunts per category, some guys are applying for 30+ hunts in the gun deer category for example and thats their perogative to do that, but it kills the odds. And when you have thousands applying preference points don't mean much.

Last edited by bossbowman; 08-20-2018 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 08-20-2018, 11:55 AM   #575
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Originally Posted by BrandonH View Post
Up until a few years ago you could only apply once for each category. Now you can apply to every hunt in every category.

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Exactly, they put a cap on 3 hunts per category for the youth hunts this year because some parents were applying for all of them, and I mean every single hunt available.
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Old 08-20-2018, 11:57 AM   #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deers & Beers View Post
Most winners like the game they're playing, doesn't mean the game doesn't suck

I won this year.. I still think, er, know Texas is one of the worst draws in the country.. I'd probably take it over California and Maine.. That's about it.. That's when you know it's sad/pitiful, when you barely beat California

Has nothing to do with amount of apps or increasing number of hunters or limited public land.. Those are just excuses.. Has to do with BS system, period.. Current system is a pure money grab, plain and simple.. It's basically not a draw, just a raffle
Again sad but true...
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Old 08-20-2018, 12:06 PM   #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deers & Beers View Post
3 choices per category

NRs require hunting license to apply OR increase individual app prices for them (example: $8 per app & $15 per private/guided give or take). The $5 change on Sheep alone (when the hunt is offered) should bring in an extra $50k

Preference Point only option for each category

Remove ridiculous credit card & administrative fees on draws, big time tickets, and online licenses

Increase apps to $5 from $3 and private/guided fees to $12 from $10. Should help offset 3 choices per category and not charging CC/admin fees

**I do love the 3 choices per category for Youth and Annual Permit required for E-postcards changes. A step in the right direction, they just need to keep it going...

***I don't mind the actual current draw system, 1 point per name in the hat. Some people want to square points like Montana. Either way is fine for me, I slightly prefer the current system. I don't want a "max point" system. To me it just doesn't matter too much. As long as categories are limited and people actually have to make choices for where the want to hunt like they used to (and like every other state) I think the odds will help everyone. Low and high point holders..
While I would like it to go back the old way with one application per category but in a nutshell the 3 per category is a good compromise, up the application fee to make up for lost $$$. I would also require bowhunters to have completed an IBEP class before being issue an archery draw permit, I can't tell you how many WMA mangagers I've heard say how much the loathe the archery hunts on their place due to hunters taking long shots and wounding game on them. Too many archery drawn hunters end up being novice due to ease of application and feel they payed their money and are gonna shoot something. Another thing I would like is them to add a multiplier or square loyalty points to make them worth more, if an individual had been loyally applying to the draw for over 10 years they should be getting better preference.

Last edited by bossbowman; 08-20-2018 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 08-20-2018, 12:38 PM   #578
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Originally Posted by bossbowman View Post
Exactly, they put a cap on 3 hunts per category for the youth hunts this year because some parents were applying for all of them, and I mean every single hunt available.
I'd suggest charging an application fee for youth hunts (current system is free therefore the temptation to apply for all hunts). Permits could still be free to "recruit the future of hunting"

I'd also suggest that youth be able to carry over their loyalty points to the adult hunts once they no longer qualify as youths in the system. My oldest son turned 17 with 9 loyalty points and lost them all (he started applying when he was 8). I have another son that was not selected this year and will be 16 next year with 8 points when he applies.
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Old 08-20-2018, 12:57 PM   #579
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Originally Posted by Shane View Post
What kind of change should we be asking for, specifically?
Seems 5 years ago or so, TPWD was considering multiplying points for long time applicants.

Maybe if they could put an exponential factor in the system. Say double points after 10 and then double again after every 5 (i.e. 15, 20, 25 etc) until drawn. Then they could really be called loyalty points.

I personally have 27 GDE points, 17 exotic points, 12 gun muley points (I haven't applied every year for the latter due to scheduled dates conflicts). Under the current system, I'm dreading having to decide to which child I would bequest my worthless loyalty points to in my will
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:02 PM   #580
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With as little public land as TX has and as many hunters who want to go there the system really ain't that bad...

Sure as heck beats the alternative of paying thousands of dollars to go shoot petting zoo critters.
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:03 PM   #581
moondog
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i drew South Llano River SP exotics 10-30-18 never hunted axis before im pumped
I don't hope you shoot a bunch of them.....I hope you shoot ALL of them. Make more room for REAL deer.
I will admit though; they fry-up pretty good
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:04 PM   #582
bossbowman
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Originally Posted by uncle jesse View Post
Seems 5 years ago or so, TPWD was considering multiplying points for long time applicants.

Maybe if they could put an exponential factor in the system. Say double points after 10 and then double again after every 5 (i.e. 15, 20, 25 etc) until drawn. Then they could really be called loyalty points.

I personally have 27 GDE points, 17 exotic points, 12 gun muley points (I haven't applied every year for the latter due to scheduled dates conflicts). Under the current system, I'm dreading having to decide to which child I would bequest my worthless loyalty points to in my will
And those 12 gun muley points are the max you could have because thats how many years ago they started that category. How many are in that same boat?, its the same deal for our group of 3, we all got 12 points for mule deer gun and probably will keep accruing them until we die. The mule deer hunts used to be under the gun deer management category.
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:08 PM   #583
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I drew Antlerless/Spike at Kickapoo Caverns SP (12/17-12/19)…..first time to draw for me on anything.

Anyone ever hunted there before that wants to give me some feedback on what to expect? I have hunted just south of there quite a bit so guessing it is pretty similar terrain.

Thanks.
I got drawn for either sex for 10/8 - 10/12. I'll let you know what I find out. Good Luck!
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:24 PM   #584
moondog
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Originally Posted by Eberle View Post
My 12 y/o son drew the youth either-sex deer at Devils River. Does anyone have any advice for us?

Shane,

I sent you a pm on the other forum. I tried on here but don't have enough post yet!
Check out my photos taken in 2015, on the adult GDE hunt. I didn't shoot, but saw a lot of decent bucks. I was being very selective because I've seen a couple of GOOD bucks there.
http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/u...pics/6088833/2

Hoping to get drawn for that one again this year.
Good luck on your hunt!
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:30 PM   #585
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Originally Posted by Greenheadless View Post
ĎStandbyí friends of the ones running the hunt got first and best priority to the spots.
Sounds like the standby "random drawing" at Richland Creek last fall.
"things that make you go, hmmm!"
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:35 PM   #586
salth2o
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moondog View Post
Check out my photos taken in 2015, on the adult GDE hunt. I didn't shoot, but saw a lot of decent bucks. I was being very selective because I've seen a couple of GOOD bucks there.
http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/u...pics/6088833/2

Hoping to get drawn for that one again this year.
Good luck on your hunt!
I have never applied for a hunt here because they warn of
Quote:
Vehicles with high ground clearance and/or 4x4 recommended.
which I do not have. Is it really that rugged and a 4x4 is necessary or would a truck with normal clearance work fine?
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Old 08-20-2018, 02:03 PM   #587
moondog
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Originally Posted by salth2o View Post
I have never applied for a hunt here because they warn of


which I do not have. Is it really that rugged and a 4x4 is necessary or would a truck with normal clearance work fine?
The unit I hunted was 50% upper plateau and 50% deep canyons. I wouldn't have been able to get to the bottom without 4WD. However, I spent more time up on the plateaus than in the bottoms. Due to the extremely heavy brush in the bottoms, it was very difficult to find a place to set up, where you could see for a long shot.
I set up a ground pop-up blind on the upper plateau and was able to set-up in an area where I could watch several long openings. All the photos I posted in the link, were bucks that I "rattled in". They were really responding to horns. This was the second week of December 2015.
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Old 08-20-2018, 03:44 PM   #588
justletmein
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Originally Posted by bossbowman View Post
I put in for just about every category too but usually just one or two hunts per category, some guys are applying for 30+ hunts in the gun deer category for example and thats their perogative to do that, but it kills the odds. And when you have thousands applying preference points don't mean much.
Geeze man those guys must love to drive, Texas is a big state. I apply for every hunt I actually want to go on, and either the wife or the kiddo is on the app with me so I know by not applying alone probably reduces my odds. Archery and Gun deer I'll have 3 or 4 apps. Same thing with the youth I only put in for hints we really want. I didn't know they limited it to 3 because i always put in for the same 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jspradley View Post
With as little public land as TX has and as many hunters who want to go there the system really ain't that bad...

Sure as heck beats the alternative of paying thousands of dollars to go shoot petting zoo critters.
That's a fact Jack!
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Old 08-20-2018, 04:14 PM   #589
GeoTro1
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I got drawn for Davis Mountains Javelina. It seems like under the new system I have been drawn at least once but I always apply for the hunts that don't have a lot of entries.
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Old 08-20-2018, 04:38 PM   #590
Big Ace
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I spend about $150-$200 year for my wife and myself. I look at some of the draw odds and think I am just wasting my $$$. But if you don't apply you will 100% not get drawn.
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Old 08-20-2018, 04:49 PM   #591
KactusKiller
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Originally Posted by uncle jesse View Post
Seems 5 years ago or so, TPWD was considering multiplying points for long time applicants.

Maybe if they could put an exponential factor in the system. Say double points after 10 and then double again after every 5 (i.e. 15, 20, 25 etc) until drawn. Then they could really be called loyalty points.

I personally have 27 GDE points, 17 exotic points, 12 gun muley points (I haven't applied every year for the latter due to scheduled dates conflicts). Under the current system, I'm dreading having to decide to which child I would bequest my worthless loyalty points to in my will
And most of those unsuccessful apps were put in under old system, my question is what has changed?

The hunter in me thinks only thing I would change is to put more emphasis on preference points. Too many people have been putting in for too many yrs without selection no matter how or how many hunts you apply for.

I would really like to get a Muley Hunt!
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Old 08-20-2018, 05:06 PM   #592
bossbowman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moondog View Post
Sounds like the standby "random drawing" at Richland Creek last fall.
"things that make you go, hmmm!"
See post #544, saw the same thing there. Funny thing was they wouldn't show anybody the card they drew out of the hat, hmmm

Last edited by bossbowman; 08-20-2018 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 08-21-2018, 10:14 AM   #593
sqiggy
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Hunt In: Panola Co and Robertson Co
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salth2o View Post
Is it really that rugged and a 4x4 is necessary or would a truck with normal clearance work fine?
I drew Devils River a few years back. All I had was a 2WD and I got around fine. If you ever go, just make sure you have some real good tires. All rock once you leave the highway.
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Old 08-21-2018, 11:16 AM   #594
SolocamShooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane View Post
What kind of change should we be asking for, specifically?
I personally would be good with them going back to the old system. Ainít gonna happen though.

Realistically:
1. Limit applications to 3 apps per category.
2. Require non-residents to possess TX hunting license to apply.
3. Require USFS doe permits to be picked up at the forest office for the forest applied for.
4. Weight the preference points in some way so that by a certain time of applying you will likely get drawn and start over. That would give everyone a better chance instead of just a totally random raffle.
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:31 PM   #595
OldRiverRat
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As long as I have the same chances to win a hunt as the next guy I donít care, preference points aside, the system is fair for all unless Iím missing something?

If you want better odds then spend more money.



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Old 08-21-2018, 08:33 PM   #596
KactusKiller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldRiverRat View Post
As long as I have the same chances to win a hunt as the next guy I donít care, preference points aside, the system is fair for all unless Iím missing something?

If you want better odds then spend more money.



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Yep
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:44 PM   #597
Deers & Beers
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So it doesn't matter to you if you spend more money and have crappier odds or spend less and have better odds? I'd much rather have the latter..
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Old 08-21-2018, 09:43 PM   #598
bowhuntingw
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It’s not right somebody has 15-20 points and cant draw and then someone with no points draws 2-3 hunts in a season.
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Old 08-21-2018, 10:41 PM   #599
Eberle
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Thank You Moon Dog good pics!
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Old 08-22-2018, 10:35 AM   #600
Shane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eberle View Post
My 12 y/o son drew the youth either-sex deer at Devils River. Does anyone have any advice for us?

Shane,

I sent you a pm on the other forum. I tried on here but don't have enough post yet!
Just seeing this post, Bryan. Good to see you posting here. You and your son will enjoy your hunt at Devil's River. It's a pretty cool place. Good luck!
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