Ilegal 9 point

[Snowflake Killa]

I wasn't really talking about your child just in general what I see

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[Javelin]

I’ve never seen any data nor article suggesting that deer populations exploded in non-AR areas with the introduction of AR. Maybe I have just been out of the loop. But I’m willing to learn, please send me links ILO personal anecdotes, as my personal experiences have not been that, but that’s just mine.

But to your second point... are you suggesting that a kid (or their parent/mentor) must be a lease-paying hunter or landowner to shoot <13”? Now the hurdle is even higher.

But maybe I posted this on the wrong thread, I don’t see ”everyone complaining”. I thought I was posting on a thread with others who are discussing our future hunting heritage.

the first point about deer numbers. the best way to get information on that is to talk to the TPWD biologists for AR counties and they will tell you how the herds are so much healthier and abundant now

to the second part, if a parent is taking a kid hunting and wanting that kid to have a good chance at success then yes they need to have private land to hunt. whether that be a lease or just a friends 50 acres. they could also find a doe or cull hunt for $500 to $1500 on a ranch or find a day lease. if the parent is just taking the kid to national forest public grounds the kid is already behind the 8 ball. I am not saying a kid cant kill on public grounds but the odds could be way higher if they chose another option.

to the last point. I dont think the OP was complaining at all. if he was then he would not have passed up the legal buck, however everytime a thread like this pops up there will be those that complain it isnt fair to kids. I grew up hunting san Augustine county and we had very few deer. i didnt quit. it took two years for me to even see a deer before I shot one. AR is not what makes kids lose interest. it is a cultural issue and a technology issue kids are not exposed like we were. I was at the lease since I was in diapers. I grew up there every weekend 4 months of the year. today many parents take their kids only a few times and it isnt a lifestyle like it was for me or many others my age and older. kids today are too connected to technology for it to sound fun to go sit for hours with no phone or anything in the woods to wait for a deer. those that do grew up as I did and were hauled to the woods more than to the walmarts

[Atfulldraw]

NW Louisiana I would chase more poachers out my stand than I would see deer in a season. It was like punishment going deer hunting. Thank God for ducks!!


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lol

I own some land in North Louisiana that I never even bother to hunt.

Of course, most of the poachers up there I know pretty well and usually see at the family reunion!

[Jimbo47]

I didn't read all the posts, but I read a few and get the impression that a lot of folks want to blame the laws for the decline in hunter participation.
It's not the laws.
We all have a responsibility to recruit new hunters, which may be our own kids are others.
It's just harder these days than it was in the past, as kids these days have more "fun things" to do in their eyes, and we as parents try to allow them to make up their own minds.
Growing up in a more rural environment we didn't have the rules like most deer camps do these days, so I couldn't get enough of having free run of a large property. Every time out was an adventure.
I guess what I'm saying is these are different times, and not everyone is playing on a level field.
Give a kid a choice of staying in a nice warm bed with their X boxes or what ever, or getting up hours before daylight, freezing their tail in a deer blind, most would take the warm bed.

[ShaBow]

AR is the best thing that ever happened to Easttexas.Ive seen better bucks taken in general without a doubt. I hate that saying "you cant eat the horns" Ive heard for years from guys I know passed lots of does before they shot the nice young buck they just had to kill every year. Should there be an age clause in it? I think so! If you know he is say 5.5 or older you can take him no matter what and if hes not you get ticketed the same as AR. As far as kids being able to watch deer and wait on the right one to shoot. That's a great lesson for the I want everything now generation of today!

[woodsman]

I have been hunting the same slice of east texas dirt my entire life. We've owned it since 1971. Im 41 and killed my first deer there at 5. I can remember seeing 4 or 5 deer over an ENTIRE SEASON. Now I'm upset if I only see 3 or 4 a day. Its the only deer woods I've hunted. We came into ar on the second or third vote.

My son (15) and wife (39) also killed their first deer on that ground. AR is the reasons both of thier first bucks where not 2 year old basket 6s. Neither have taken a deer this year but my wife is the only one thats picked up a rifle and thats only been 3 or 4 sits the rest have been bow.

Im glad my son has gotten the archery bug so hard. Hes had many encounters but just hasn't had the right shot opportunity.

Id say theyre hunting. Theyre hunting the first bow deer

Yeah deer were scarce in most places in TX 50-70 years ago. But their overwhelming re-establishment didn’t start 15 years ago. Not sure how that proves causation, respectfully. And....again....I don’t disagree with these points being made about whitetail management in terms of bigger bucks, age structure, etc. I enjoy those benefits and have acknowledged that.

the first point about deer numbers. the best way to get information on that is to talk to the TPWD biologists for AR counties and they will tell you how the herds are so much healthier and abundant now

to the second part, if a parent is taking a kid hunting and wanting that kid to have a good chance at success then yes they need to have private land to hunt. whether that be a lease or just a friends 50 acres. they could also find a doe or cull hunt for $500 to $1500 on a ranch or find a day lease. if the parent is just taking the kid to national forest public grounds the kid is already behind the 8 ball. I am not saying a kid cant kill on public grounds but the odds could be way higher if they chose another option.

to the last point. I dont think the OP was complaining at all. if he was then he would not have passed up the legal buck, however everytime a thread like this pops up there will be those that complain it isnt fair to kids. I grew up hunting san Augustine county and we had very few deer. i didnt quit. it took two years for me to even see a deer before I shot one. AR is not what makes kids lose interest. it is a cultural issue and a technology issue kids are not exposed like we were. I was at the lease since I was in diapers. I grew up there every weekend 4 months of the year. today many parents take their kids only a few times and it isnt a lifestyle like it was for me or many others my age and older. kids today are too connected to technology for it to sound fun to go sit for hours with no phone or anything in the woods to wait for a deer. those that do grew up as I did and were hauled to the woods more than to the walmarts

I agree with much of your commentary with the unfortunate shift with kids’ interest in hunting. Our culture has changed for the worse.
As to your other points, This is kind of what I expected, no offense. I need to go do a tremendous amount of legwork to learn something that is yet somehow common knowledge to most other hunters, to understand.

And of course anyone can throw $$ and get a deer killed. I can just take my kid grocery shopping and achieve the same. I’ve hunted public land exclusively for 9 years, and have accumulated tremendous knowledge of how to be successful on it. But that’s not going to be the case for a young hunter starting out, as you have stated. TPWD should not, by your solution, expect a kid to pay $500-1,500 to get on the board in AR counties where there are plenty of deer. I was on an intensely managed lease for 8 years and “grew up” in a similar hunting environment to which you did. But my priorities have shifted as I have grown older, and I’m not going to sell out to living in the deer woods as I once did just so my son can someday be successful. That’s an entirely different discussion, and a personal matter for everyone, but there is middle ground to be had if the state would entertain an exception of some kind for beginning hunters. I don’t have a proposition, just discussing the issue.

I’m not sure what else can be discussed from my perspective sans hard data as previously mentioned. Not necessarily putting that onus on anyone, but I think common sense suggests that deer populations rebounded long before AR restrictions.

Anyway, enjoyed it guys, I gotta head to church. God bless.

[miket]

Some of us believe our posterity should be hunters. Others believe they should be sportsmen. Not mutually exclusive you say? Well, yes, that’s true. But they have inherently different objectives.

Hunting focuses on killing an animal for food. Our earlier ancestors, native Americans, etc. were hunters, not sportsmen. Hunting was not always a sport.

Sporting focuses on means, methods, glorification of the animal (at least to a degree), and a higher level of fulfillment and satisfaction for the killer than just his belly.

Many of us are both. I personally feel both are fine. But whichever you are, nobody flat-out hunts out of necessity anymore. The cost to hunt, limited access to game (not necessarily population, but legalities/seasons, distance to hunt-able ground, etc) make your local grocer MUCH more economical. Sure, filling the freezer helps us justify our past time and offset some cost.

Nonetheless, TPWD’s push to get bucks to a mature age is sportsman-driven ($$$ debate aside), and many young hunters are just not there yet. Some are, and that’s fine, too. But it can have a negative effect on young hunters. Why should a hunter have to “earn” a kill over a long period of time? I don’t make my seven year old earn his protein every night. He is learning lessons of patience, drive, persistence in other areas of his life. The “sporting” mentality has overtaken our hunting culture and nearly replaced it’s basic tenant, providing food. Again, they can coexist, but I think we have to be careful to not lose sight of what it is we’re really doing, what really matters and what doesn’t.

I realize my position is counter to many reading this. But Sporting has been engrained in many of us and “hunting” has been redefined by the marketing, advertising and social media we see throughout the “hunting industry”, TBH being no exception—and really a guide for many, in some respects.

Make no mistake, I love big antlers. They make us proud. They’re a symbol of prowess and status in the animal kingdom. But should all hunters be forced to be sportsmen? Because, to suggest that a young kid killing an immature animal is likened to “everyone getting a trophy” and several other similar comments is basically asserting that it’s unacceptable simply be a hunter.

I’m sure I’ll get flamed on this because I realize hunting and sporting are one and the same to most here. But maybe it can be food for thought for some. I don’t know.

God bless and happy hunting. Or sporting.

Agreed. I have said this here before, I do not consider myself a sportsman. I have a drive in me to pursue, kill and eat. I realize I am now a minority, that it seems for the majority it is just a game, a way to get attention or to feel like a big shot trophy hunter. That is why I am against AR rules. ( dont misunderstand, I am not saying the other folks are wrong ).

[jshouse]

I’ve never seen any data nor article suggesting that deer populations exploded in non-AR areas with the introduction of AR. Maybe I have just been out of the loop. But I’m willing to learn, please send me links ILO personal anecdotes, as my personal experiences have not been that, but that’s just mine.

But to your second point... are you suggesting that a kid (or their parent/mentor) must be a lease-paying hunter or landowner to shoot <13”? Now the hurdle is even higher.

But maybe I posted this on the wrong thread, I don’t see ”everyone complaining”. I thought I was posting on a thread with others who are discussing our future hunting heritage.

Agreed. If anything its made it funner at our place.



I have been hunting the same slice of east texas dirt my entire life. We've owned it since 1971. Im 41 and killed my first deer there at 5. I can remember seeing 4 or 5 deer over an ENTIRE SEASON. Now I'm upset if I only see 3 or 4 a day. Its the only deer woods I've hunted. We came into ar on the second or third vote.

My son (15) and wife (39) also killed their first deer on that ground. AR is the reasons both of thier first bucks where not 2 year old basket 6s. Neither have taken a deer this year but my wife is the only one thats picked up a rifle and thats only been 3 or 4 sits the rest have been bow.

Im glad my son has gotten the archery bug so hard. Hes had many encounters but just hasn't had the right shot opportunity.

Id say theyre hunting. Theyre hunting the first bow deer

We have had a little piece of land in Hunt County since the late 60s. I grew up on that place and hunted it all through middle school and HS (about 1991-2000) without ever seeing a deer, only tracks. After moving away and getting a job and all that I didn't even think about hunting it again till 2011. When I put up a camera I was shocked.

There are 10-20 deer on camera daily out there now and we see a handful pretty much every sit.

Just my experience.

[HDWRENCH]

You’ve lost track of the topic. While I agree with your scenario, AR (original topic) is meant to manage an overall deer herd for everyone with 30 acres or 30k acres.

I agree with this. But I think he is saying that while its should do one thing it does not always . Legal buck is legal so its gets shot your or old . So the young deer should be passed upon says many

Ok but it made the 13 Inch rule SOOOOO ..



Seeing deer way back when to know .. Ok think about the lack of woods new sub divisions that have gone in.. Their area has gotten smaller in many places .

For those of us that hunt Public big game in CO NM etc you know what I am talking about when its can be like finding a needle in a hay stack . They have vast areas to go to .

The AR thing to me is different as i came from hunting mule deer .

[Javelin]

Yeah deer were scarce in most places in TX 50-70 years ago. But their overwhelming re-establishment didn’t start 15 years ago. Not sure how that proves causation, respectfully. And....again....I don’t disagree with these points being made about whitetail management in terms of bigger bucks, age structure, etc. I enjoy those benefits and have acknowledged that.
.

I was born in 1983. the numbers of deer in my area of east texas had rebounded from the 60s when there were like 1 deer per 3 square miles, but they were still few and far between compared to now. do I give all credit to AR, no but it has been a major influencing factor along with fewer outlaws

[Goldeneagle]

the whole youth should be exempt is the exact same mentality as everyone gets a trophy. we need to teach our youth that sometimes the reward comes with hard work and effort. if you feel your kid will lose interest if they dont get to shoot a deer take them squirrel hunting or coon hunting or some other sort of hunting where shot opportunities come more often then transition them to deer.

congrats to the OP's kid for doing the right thing.

Sounds like they need to bring back the 40# rule for archery. Make the kids work for it.

[manwitaplan]

13 inch rule is socialism, someone telling you what a trophy should be....

If TP&W laws state you can harvest 2 bucks or one buck pertaining to its county, then why does it matter what size it is!

Oh, I forgot, some elitist didn’t agree

So in your field every youth should get to keep the first undersized red, trout, crab, flounder!!!!!!! Ha ha ..... It applies!


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[Fishndude]

It was a teachable moment and I'm not complaining. It has nothing to do with "instant gratification." Boy is nine and has been in the stand every weekend.

You make a lot of assumptions and judgements based on those assumptions. There's your teachable moment, mouth.

Lol! I must be right if you got this worked up.

[Leemo]

So in your field every youth should get to keep the first undersized red, trout, crab, flounder!!!!!!! Ha ha ..... It applies!


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Why not?

[Smart]

13 inch rule is socialism, someone telling you what a trophy should be....
If TP&W laws state you can harvest 2 bucks or one buck pertaining to its county, then why does it matter what size it is!
Oh, I forgot, some elitist didn’t agree

That is a ridiculous reach... Nobody is telling them what a trophy should be. Do you feel the same about fishing, or crabbing? Its about maintaining a healthy herd for everybody in those areas....much like your crabs or fish in the bays/gulf.....or duck/birds etc. Restrictions by number/size or both for the betterment of a resource is nothing new.