ATF Prosecutes man for pistol brace

[RJH1]

I think it leans a tad further toward belligerent spewing of bold faced ignorance than just straight "opinion."
Homeboy went balls deep in a sheep he never even bothered to look at, much less take a whiff of. Provocation deserves everything it gets.

A little too much information there.......

[Outdoor Legacy]

I'd like to know how the he ever got on the ATF's radar. How do the ever come into possession of the firearm in the first place?

[Drycreek3189]

Great, put all the crap you want on it.


Maybe I should read the article?

Spoiled .......and from Tennesee ? That's two strikes right there.........

[35remington]

Gee willikers, Batman. If only there was a way to avoid this problem entirely. The ATF could like make a website or something and folks could like pay their $200* and never have to worry about RIP puppets being shot and the gov raiding their house to steal the absolutel abomination of a firearm they have created.

We could call it . . . I dunno . . . . eForms.



*All of the above are infringements on the Second Amendment.

[-HIC-]

Gee willikers, Batman. If only there was a way to avoid this problem entirely. The ATF could like make a website or something and folks could like pay their $200* and never have to worry about RIP puppets being shot and the gov raiding their house to steal the absolutel abomination of a firearm they have created.

We could call it . . . I dunno . . . . eForms.



*All of the above are infringements on the Second Amendment.

I have said this many times on this forum and to my friends. I have two registered lowers, with those two I can have an unlimited amount of uppers that fall in the SBR category. Depending on how the ATF is feeling your pistol brace may be illegal to shoulder, or just illegal. I have 400 bucks in stamps in those lowers, much less than it would cost to defend against any prosecution.

Having said all that, The 1934 NFA act is unconstitutional in my opinion. And 'GASP' Reagan further screwed us in '86.

[-HIC-]

Well, he got called a Hillary voter, Beto voter, idiotic, and an aspiring ATF agent (and I don't think any of that was in a positive manner) all for misunderstanding the current rulings or having a difference of opinion, so yeah I am pretty serious, but I tried to do it in a humorous way.

I don't agree with his stance, but still....

You are right, he argued what he thought was fact and was ridiculed for it. Apologies.

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[TxKronik]

ATF Prosecutes man for pistol brace

“If however the shooter/possessor takes affirmative steps to configure the device for use as a shoulder stock for example......”

This passage in the ATF letter explains what the ATF considers “making an SBR”

It also goes on to state that it does not matter that what ever alterations where made may be reversible they still constitute a redesign making it an SBR.

I think the above combined with the fact that he tied the rubber end of a walking cane on the end to make it more comfortable on his shoulder constitutes a “redesign” and “Making” an sbr for the purposes of the letter.

Photo says he attached the cane rubber end to the brace.



Do I think it’s all stupid yes

Do I think the ATF and NFA over reach every day yes

Do I think it fits as a violation yes


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[Outdoor Legacy]

Gee willikers, Batman. If only there was a way to avoid this problem entirely. The ATF could like make a website or something and folks could like pay their $200* and never have to worry about RIP puppets being shot and the gov raiding their house to steal the absolutel abomination of a firearm they have created.

We could call it . . . I dunno . . . . eForms.



*All of the above are infringements on the Second Amendment.

I don't totally disagree but to be clear, the ATF makes the process intentionally difficult and drawn out. If it was just a matter of filling a form out, mailing them $200 and getting a stamp in the mail a couple weeks later this wouldn't be as big of an issue. I also fully admit their long draw out ridiculous process is no excuse for violating the law.

Also, the fact is, the ATF's rules allow for pistols. They allow for pistols with braces. They allow for braces that look like stocks. Now they even allow for braces that extend and function like stocks. They clarify their rules in writing to say you can shoulder the pistol without breaking their rules. You can't blame Americans for following their rules and suggest everyone should go pay $200 and wait 6-9 months to get an SBR stamp if they can remain within the published guidelines of the ATF without giving the Feds $200.

If the ATF doesn't like braces that look/function as stocks and they don't want citizens to shoulder pistols then they should ban those items and back track on their public statements and say that no one should ever shoulder one. Problem solved.

My point is this......if you're going to break the ATF's current rules with your pistol, get an SBR via their proper methods. If you build a pistol via their guidelines and use it via their guidelines then they need to leave well enough alone.

I'm speaking generally and not to this exact case in question.

[35remington]

I don't totally disagree but to be clear, the ATF makes the process intentionally difficult and drawn out. If it was just a matter of filling a form out, mailing them $200 and getting a stamp in the mail a couple weeks later this wouldn't be as big of an issue. I also fully admit their long draw out ridiculous process is no excuse for violating the law.

Also, the fact is, the ATF's rules allow for pistols. They allow for pistols with braces. They allow for braces that look like stocks. Now they even allow for braces that extend and function like stocks. They clarify their rules in writing to say you can shoulder the pistol without breaking their rules. You can't blame Americans for following their rules and suggest everyone should go pay $200 and wait 6-9 months to get an SBR stamp if they can remain within the published guidelines of the ATF without giving the Feds $200.

If the ATF doesn't like braces that look/function as stocks and they don't want citizens to shoulder pistols then they should ban those items and back track on their public statements and say that no one should ever shoulder one. Problem solved.

My point is this......if you're going to break the ATF's current rules with your pistol, get an SBR via their proper methods. If you build a pistol via their guidelines and use it via their guidelines then they need to leave well enough alone.

I'm speaking generally and not to this exact case in question.

Good discussion. Two responses:

(1) Current wait time to get a gun SBR'ed are approximately 7 days. Yes, days.

(2) Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone has explored the issue of just how much y'all can rely on these "ATF Letters." ATF Letters are not law. They are not cases. They are not controlling authority that the court must follow by law. They are not mandatory authority that must be considered as a defense to prosecution. They are just letters.

[Outdoor Legacy]

Good discussion. Two responses:

(1) Current wait time to get a gun SBR'ed are approximately 7 days. Yes, days.

(2) Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone has explored the issue of just how much y'all can rely on these "ATF Letters." ATF Letters are not law. They are not cases. They are not controlling authority that the court must follow by law. They are not mandatory authority that must be considered as a defense to prosecution. They are just letters.

1) What?!!! You mean to tell me I can get an SB in 7 days? I had no idea. That changes a lot in my opinion.

2) Fair point and I'm not an attorney but I would find it very dishonest for the assistant director of government agency to release a clarifying statement on official letterhead that essentially goes against previously held common interpretations of law and then the same agency cry uncle and say that the letter held no water and wasn't a legitimate defense. Now let me clarify and say that I'm not at all surprised the Feds would try to do that, but I find it extremely dishonest.

[Mike D]

Good discussion. Two responses:



(1) Current wait time to get a gun SBR'ed are approximately 7 days. Yes, days.



(2) Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone has explored the issue of just how much y'all can rely on these "ATF Letters." ATF Letters are not law. They are not cases. They are not controlling authority that the court must follow by law. They are not mandatory authority that must be considered as a defense to prosecution. They are just letters.

Wait....

Are you saying current F1 e file approval time is 7 days?


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[denimdeerslayer]

I just to see a good reason for the SBR being in need of a tax in the first place. Why the hell does it matter how long the barrel is. Criminals dont follow laws in the first place. Just another way to fleece law abiding folks.

[Clay C]

Wait....

Are you saying current F1 e file approval time is 7 days?


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There have been several getting approved within 2 weeks.

That won't last long.

[catslayer]

I think I will dust off my copy of Unintended Consequences and remind myself of why the idiotic sh%$ show that is known as the ATF Firearms Division is inherently unconstitutional.

I'm with chew

[35remington]

Wait....

Are you saying current F1 e file approval time is 7 days?

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Yes. Just took a quick look and I see a 2-day approval, a bunch of 10 day approvals, and a 12-day approval. This is with the new eForms being online.