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Old 12-28-2017, 07:24 AM   #51
Encinal
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Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
Any time I am talking management, I am referring to wild free ranging whitetails. Not penned deer.

Works, worked, work- accomplished or finished

Culling is a lame excuse to shoot a buck to get around self imposed limitations. It does not accomplish anything as far as quality of the deer herd, to many variables. Besides, all whitetails have enough good genetics, that if you feed them and let them grow they will fulfill their potential.
Why do you want to let a scrub be the best scrub he can be?
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:40 AM   #52
barnag
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Why do you want to let a scrub be the best scrub he can be?

A "scrub" one year does not mean he will be a "scrub" the next.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:50 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
Any time I am talking management, I am referring to wild free ranging whitetails. Not penned deer.

Works, worked, work- accomplished or finished

Culling is a lame excuse to shoot a buck to get around self imposed limitations. It does not accomplish anything as far as quality of the deer herd, to many variables. Besides, all whitetails have enough good genetics, that if you feed them and let them grow they will fulfill their potential.
For us culling is taking the deer you don't wanna feed or let breed, it helps try and control the population some and help the better bucks become the more dominant of the area. We are well aware that we will never be able to truly control our population or remove the 8 point genetic, but we can help try and dictate the numbers some and help which genetics will be passed on to an extent.

And yes I believe every buck can reach his full potential, but that 6.5 130" 8 points potential might just be a 145" 9 at his best, and isn't why we why or why we want to be feeding when we also have a 170" 6.5 11 at the same spot, you take the risk that the 11 has more potential than the 8 and take the 8 out and allow the 11 to spread his genes and have more access to feed now that the feed pen bully is dead. That's "culling" to me and our program
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Old 12-28-2017, 02:56 PM   #54
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A "scrub" one year does not mean he will be a "scrub" the next.
Generally when one implies successful culling, there is an understanding that the hunter has intimate knowledge of their herd. In this case, Encinal is implying that after knowingly following a buck for 3-4 years and seeing that he is genetically inferior to his peers in antler development, it only make sense for that to be one of the mouths to remove from the herd.

Blindly shooting deer with no history is not smart, nor would it be something any quality manager would advocate.
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:55 PM   #55
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Why do you want to let a scrub be the best scrub he can be?
You are assuming he will always be like that. I understand the "removing a mouth" concept, but if that's all it is, take a doe and let that buck live...you really have no idea how he will turn out.

I mean whats wrong with a 140 class 8? Personally, I would love to shoot one


Knowing your deer herd, how does "Cruiser" or One time bucks figure into that? Every year we get bucks coming through that none of have seen, how do they figure into the whole scheme?

Last edited by lovemylegacy; 12-28-2017 at 08:57 PM..
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Old 12-28-2017, 09:26 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
You are assuming he will always be like that. I understand the "removing a mouth" concept, but if that's all it is, take a doe and let that buck live...you really have no idea how he will turn out.

I mean whats wrong with a 140 class 8? Personally, I would love to shoot one


Knowing your deer herd, how does "Cruiser" or One time bucks figure into that? Every year we get bucks coming through that none of have seen, how do they figure into the whole scheme?

Does serve a different purpose in your deer herd than bucks, thatís why. And yes I do have an idea how he will turn out.

What makes you think a deer I call a scrub is ever going to get to 120?

Cruisers can be patterned too. Lots of times they cruise the same way at the same time once they get to a certain age.
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:31 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
You are assuming he will always be like that. I understand the "removing a mouth" concept, but if that's all it is, take a doe and let that buck live...you really have no idea how he will turn out.

I mean whats wrong with a 140 class 8? Personally, I would love to shoot one


Knowing your deer herd, how does "Cruiser" or One time bucks figure into that? Every year we get bucks coming through that none of have seen, how do they figure into the whole scheme?
You live in the land of exceptions and not the rule. Sure a junky 6 pt at three year old “may” reach 125” at seven but I don’t know a serious ranch on the planet that want to feed/house bucks 7 years to shoot 120s. Sorry to break it to you but genetics play a role in all living organisms. Even if the junkiest buck on the ranch only breeds 2-3 Doe a year count up the multiples of times he has spread those genetics but age 6 or 7. You can keep the junky stuff till maturity all you want...ranches focused on the top end surely won’t.
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:57 PM   #58
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I have a serious choke point at 4-5. Know thy herd.
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Old 12-29-2017, 12:25 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by txwhitetail View Post
You live in the land of exceptions and not the rule. Sure a junky 6 pt at three year old ďmayĒ reach 125Ē at seven but I donít know a serious ranch on the planet that want to feed/house bucks 7 years to shoot 120s. Sorry to break it to you but genetics play a role in all living organisms. Even if the junkiest buck on the ranch only breeds 2-3 Doe a year count up the multiples of times he has spread those genetics but age 6 or 7. You can keep the junky stuff till maturity all you want...ranches focused on the top end surely wonít.


That comes into play with how much Land you have or the size of the fence.


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Old 12-29-2017, 09:49 AM   #60
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That comes into play with how much Land you have or the size of the fence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have no idea what you just posted, as your avatar distracted me
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Old 12-29-2017, 01:27 PM   #61
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That comes into play with how much Land you have or the size of the fence.


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Kinds what I have been trying to say.

Nice avatar
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Old 12-29-2017, 01:41 PM   #62
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Does serve a different purpose in your deer herd than bucks, thatís why. And yes I do have an idea how he will turn out.

What makes you think a deer I call a scrub is ever going to get to 120?

Cruisers can be patterned too. Lots of times they cruise the same way at the same time once they get to a certain age.
Predict the future you can just by looking at a bucks headgear?...I don't believe that for a minute.


Well, to answer your question, I don't know, that's why we are having this discussion. We have a "scrub" 6 point (your terms), but he has a monster of a body. His antlers are fairly large, so he is exhibiting some characteristics in his body size that are attractive. I just think it is very narrow thinking when you judge a buck by antlers only.


If you have a secret on how to pattern Cruisers, I would like to know it. Your secret will be safe with me.
The area I have on my lease is a "doorway" into that area and I get cruisers coming through. One long tined 8 ended up staying over from last year...he is probably 4-5. Well I haven't seen him since early Nov.
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Old 12-29-2017, 02:14 PM   #63
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Awesome reading. Keep the good stuff coming
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:12 PM   #64
Encinal
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Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
Predict the future you can just by looking at a bucks headgear?...I don't believe that for a minute.


Well, to answer your question, I don't know, that's why we are having this discussion. We have a "scrub" 6 point (your terms), but he has a monster of a body. His antlers are fairly large, so he is exhibiting some characteristics in his body size that are attractive. I just think it is very narrow thinking when you judge a buck by antlers only.


If you have a secret on how to pattern Cruisers, I would like to know it. Your secret will be safe with me.
The area I have on my lease is a "doorway" into that area and I get cruisers coming through. One long tined 8 ended up staying over from last year...he is probably 4-5. Well I haven't seen him since early Nov.

You want long tails, sort em that way.

Some deer cruise around all year (very hard to pattern and smallest population)... some deer are homebodies(easy)... some deer summer in one place and winter in another...(easy)... some deer move summer homes every year but winter in the same place...(easy if you are winter)... etc etc..

Depending on your acreage size, you just need to focus time when and where he started showing up last year. If his range moved, and you don't have access, well thats the way the cookie crumbles.
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:27 PM   #65
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Lots of great information being passed here...Keep it coming!
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:39 PM   #66
lovemylegacy
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Originally Posted by Encinal View Post
You want long tails, sort em that way.

Some deer cruise around all year (very hard to pattern and smallest population)... some deer are homebodies(easy)... some deer summer in one place and winter in another...(easy)... some deer move summer homes every year but winter in the same place...(easy if you are winter)... etc etc..

Depending on your acreage size, you just need to focus time when and where he started showing up last year. If his range moved, and you don't have access, well thats the way the cookie crumbles.
There was a big ten that had split brows that showed up Thanksgiving in 2016, worked a scrape. Didn't see him again till this year about the same time. He ran off 2 of my target bucks. He hung around for about a week, now they are all gone. 2 weeks before Christmas, 2 cams, 1 pic of s doe.

They have food, water, cover, I do not over pressure it. Have no idea what happened.

Im guessing a doe was in season, he ran off the competition now they are all gone
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