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Old 01-04-2017, 02:35 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by elgato View Post
C&B



I can tell you that in north La. I am involved with an 8000 acre property between the Ms. River levee and the river. Floods every year with times where the entire property goes under water. The deer move to high ground when the floods come and somehow know exactly when they can return. Essentially all the deer return once the water starts subsiding. They even hit the high spots deep in flooded country before all the water is gone. This behavior is fairly common along the islands and numerous properties inside the levee.


Thank you Rusty

That is what I am hoping will happen! Our place hasn't flooded like that in 10+ years that I can remember. I'm hoping a lot of the deer we have been watching will move back in. I'm not very optimistic though, since this isn't a normal occurrence.
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Old 01-04-2017, 02:40 PM   #152
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CastBlast, US A Retired....

Those are pretty site specific questions that would require site specific knowledge to properly address. In general, deer are what's called a mid-successional species. Succession is a term that refers to the natural changes that occur in a plant community. For example, if you took a stand of big, old hardwoods and pines and logged it, you would be taking a late successional community and turning it to an early successional community. So what was big tall trees, now becomes weeds, grass, bushes, vines, and little trees. That community will gradually change back to what it was before it was logged.

So, if you think about what deer need, weeds & browse for food, some thick cover to hide in, and water, then a tornado and logging would most likely improve the habitat for deer. Again, site specific as well as intensity specific (how much and to what degree). Now, to our human eye, which tends to lean on beauty, we'd rather see a big, pretty hardwood stand and not a bunch of slash laying around and grown up weeds and thickets. But to a deer, it's a steak house, Baskin-Robbins, and up scale Hotel, all right there in one spot. So, Retired Army, without seeing it, I would think that nothing is the best thing you could do.

As for flooded bottoms, the floods wash in tons of nutrients, amd combined with the extra moisture, grow fabulous deer food. Yes, they'll come back.

As I've posted several times before in multiple threads, you can get free, expert assistance from your areas TPWD Technical Guidance Biologist who will have site specific knowledge and recommendations.

http://tpwd.texas.gov/landwater/land...ce/biologists/
Thank you. It will take a couple of years but letting it grow is probably best. Thanks again.
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Old 01-04-2017, 06:35 PM   #153
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Following. A tornado ripped every hardwood in our hardwood bottom on 40 acres in May. It looks like an atomic bomb exploded and wiped everything out. Following that, a crew came in and thinned out the pines and another guy came in a logged much of the hardwoods that were salvageable. I did not see a deer all season on this property. I truly believed all of this activity pushed any deer off.

My question is with piles of hardwoods lying around should they be burned or can I leave them lay and let them grow up into thickets?

And, how can I try to pull deer back onto this property? I am running a corn feeder and going to try to run it all year. We have much hunting pressure all around us.
Having hunted SWLa and SETx all my life, clear cut and partial cuts are a way of hunting life. You sir are in a wonderful position. The deer will immediately use this area. All sorts of browse will pop up every where and the health of the deer will increase. A place like this will pull in deer from the surrounding areas. The one thing I would do is burn all the downed trees. Predators use downed tree tops to live in. You want to keep this to a minimum. One other thing, if you want to keep this area growing new browse, do a controlled burn every couple of years.
A corn feeder isn't a bad thing, but I would lean toward a protein/supplemental feeder. Corn really has nothing good for the deer except for carbs
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:42 AM   #154
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Having hunted SWLa and SETx all my life, clear cut and partial cuts are a way of hunting life. You sir are in a wonderful position. The deer will immediately use this area. All sorts of browse will pop up every where and the health of the deer will increase. A place like this will pull in deer from the surrounding areas. The one thing I would do is burn all the downed trees. Predators use downed tree tops to live in. You want to keep this to a minimum. One other thing, if you want to keep this area growing new browse, do a controlled burn every couple of years.
A corn feeder isn't a bad thing, but I would lean toward a protein/supplemental feeder. Corn really has nothing good for the deer except for carbs
The only issue I have about burning is the piles are pretty big and I do not want a brush fire to get out on neighboring properties or the Timber company land. I was hoping to let it grow but I know that would cause some terrible thickets. Thank you for the advice.
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Old 01-15-2017, 03:35 PM   #155
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Lets revive this thread
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Old 01-16-2017, 04:45 PM   #156
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Lets revive this thread
Yes, lets...please.
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Old 01-16-2017, 06:04 PM   #157
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I could sure use some more!


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Old 01-16-2017, 11:14 PM   #158
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One more time
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Old 01-17-2017, 05:28 AM   #159
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Old 01-17-2017, 07:59 AM   #160
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Maybe that's all he knows about WT.
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Old 01-17-2017, 09:48 AM   #161
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Ok, here goes.

This time of year in SETx/pine farm, where do the deer go? There is a major drop in deer movement. Example, I have a cam on a scrape that is regularly visited by bucks and does alike, then its like a door is shut. Visits go to almost 0

Feel free to elaberate
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Old 01-17-2017, 11:18 AM   #162
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I seldom get east of I-45. Claustrophobic in all them woods. Responding just to show I'm not ignoring posts on Hawk's thread.

As for trailcam on scrapes, the rut is over, so they quit.
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Old 01-17-2017, 12:03 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
Ok, here goes.



This time of year in SETx/pine farm, where do the deer go? There is a major drop in deer movement. Example, I have a cam on a scrape that is regularly visited by bucks and does alike, then its like a door is shut. Visits go to almost 0



Feel free to elaberate


I have tried to figure that out too. Not necessarily on scrapes, but cameras on well traveled trails will all but dry up about this time of the year. I chalk it up to change seasonal patterns, food sources, etc. I just haven't found where they go. I assume they get back in thick cover with a food source and water and just don't travel much.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:30 AM   #164
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I seldom get east of I-45. Claustrophobic in all them woods. Responding just to show I'm not ignoring posts on Hawk's thread.

As for trailcam on scrapes, the rut is over, so they quit.
Well, here is another one of those things that isn't exactly true. I have kept cams on scrapes year round and have pics of deer working scrapes all year, just not to the extent of the Fall.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:32 AM   #165
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I have tried to figure that out too. Not necessarily on scrapes, but cameras on well traveled trails will all but dry up about this time of the year. I chalk it up to change seasonal patterns, food sources, etc. I just haven't found where they go. I assume they get back in thick cover with a food source and water and just don't travel much.
That's what I figure too. We may go weeks without seeing many deer, then overnight you may get a truck load of pics for a day or so, then they gone again.
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Old 01-19-2017, 09:51 PM   #166
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Ok, I'm back! Been busy with work and new house.... Top answered it, deer only use/make/visit scrapes during the rut. That's it. No more rut, they go back to just "being deer" and eat, sleep and repeat.... Deer tend to move around differently during different times of the year depending on food availability, stress of activity of hunters, rut, fawning, etc.
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Old 01-20-2017, 12:57 AM   #167
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Hawkpuppy, that's what I was taught years ago, but have learned that scrapes are used year round. I know this may be a subject of contention, but I have pics of deer, bucks and does using scrapes year round. Not as much say in Sept-Dec, but still with some regularity.
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Old 01-20-2017, 07:19 AM   #168
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Interesting. Don't know that I have ever seen deer actually use a scrape other than leading up to, during and maybe a bit after the rut.
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Old 01-20-2017, 07:48 AM   #169
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Hawkpuppy, that's what I was taught years ago, but have learned that scrapes are used year round. I know this may be a subject of contention, but I have pics of deer, bucks and does using scrapes year round. Not as much say in Sept-Dec, but still with some regularity.
I have seen the same on 3 different ranches over the last 15 yrs now. There are always a few active scrapes it seems and they are most active when it cools off after a rain. First one I remembering finding was in June in LaSalle County on a sendero close to a protein feed pen. I have seen quite a few more that were active in March than any other month though.
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Old 01-20-2017, 08:05 AM   #170
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I believe both does and bucks will use scrapes or at least are drawn to them at times. But with deer using them all year, could that have something to do with population ratios? Say more bucks in an area will "compete" all year for space? Or continue throughout the year to mark their territory?
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Old 01-20-2017, 08:37 AM   #171
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Scrapes are used as a "sign post" if you will. They leave their scent from glands and urine somewhat marking their territory. I guess it could stand to reason if there is a skewed population ratio that extended use could happen. If deer walk by an area regularly and smell the signs, seems to reason they would check it out and investigate....
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Old 01-20-2017, 10:35 AM   #172
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I have seen it on both LF and HF ranches. I found one last year on my small LF place in Goliad County in late June. All places had a good buck to doe ratio, around 1:1-1.5. The big communal scrapes I found on Hill Country ranches in the 90's about 100 yards downwind from protein feeders stay active year round. Those tended to be more of the "sign post". The deer used them as gathering/comfort spots before they moved into the feeder.
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Old 01-20-2017, 12:18 PM   #173
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Interesting. Don't know that I have ever seen deer actually use a scrape other than leading up to, during and maybe a bit after the rut.
Yessir, its not the same aggressive wrecking of a scrape, its more of a licking branch usage and they may step and loiter in the scrape.
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Old 01-21-2017, 11:23 AM   #174
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Ive had bucks still sparring on trail cam up to last week. Would you consider this a sign of a still elevated testosterone level resulting in a later shed?
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Old 01-21-2017, 05:59 PM   #175
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Good question
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Old 01-21-2017, 06:45 PM   #176
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Ive had bucks still sparring on trail cam up to last week. Would you consider this a sign of a still elevated testosterone level resulting in a later shed?
I found two bucks dead that had been locked up from fighting the first week of March one year. They had not been dead more than a day or two at most when they were found. My guess is that a doe fawn was large/old enough to come into heat and that was the cause of the fight.
On my place here in Goliad County I am still seeing a few young bucks sparring on TC's as of this week.
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Old 01-22-2017, 07:03 PM   #177
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What determines when a buck will drop his antlers? I found 1 side while I was out cutting some firewood yesterday at my place.
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Old 01-23-2017, 07:55 AM   #178
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Dropping antlers is initiated by day length which influences testosterone levels. Same as shedding velvet and rut. We know this is true because you can take pen deer and control their exposure to light.

There is also some environmental influence that influences precise timing. In TX Panhandle, bucks start dropping end of Dec to early Jan and most sre done by mid March. In S TX, some start late Feb and most are done by end od April.

By the way, heck of a nice shed horn.
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:05 AM   #179
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Saturday had what would have been a potential shooter come in but he already shed one side
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:19 AM   #180
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Hawkpuppy, that's what I was taught years ago, but have learned that scrapes are used year round. I know this may be a subject of contention, but I have pics of deer, bucks and does using scrapes year round. Not as much say in Sept-Dec, but still with some regularity.
I put a camera on a scrape next to a well used trail coming from a bedding area that is very remote and receives no travel or pressure and left it year round on video. This area is in a box canyon that is pretty inaccessible to humans except on foot and we stay out of the area.

Deer would check it and pee in it year round. We did not see bucks working the mesquite branch above with their orbitals except for pre rut, rut, and post rut in the fall.

What was interesting was the number of animals other than deer (bobcats, foxes, hogs, etc) that would sniff the scrape when they were in the area.

I think some scrapes are year round 'sign posts' that the deer use, and some of them are made only during rut and neglected afterwards.
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:26 AM   #181
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I found two bucks dead that had been locked up from fighting the first week of March one year. They had not been dead more than a day or two at most when they were found. My guess is that a doe fawn was large/old enough to come into heat and that was the cause of the fight.
On my place here in Goliad County I am still seeing a few young bucks sparring on TC's as of this week.
I got trail cam pics of a couple of bucks fighting hard (not just sparring) in March one year. At this particular feeder, an old dominant buck had been killed in mid November. Starting about 12-1, we saw alot of pics of new bucks showing up there. My theory was that these bucks were sorting out dominance in a territory that was up for contention.

The two bucks I have picks on in March, the winner made that his territory and was the dominant buck in the area for a couple of years. The loser changed territory to a spot we had not previously seen him before and he was never again seen in his old territory.
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Old 01-23-2017, 12:44 PM   #182
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Man I love this thread!
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Old 01-23-2017, 07:53 PM   #183
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Won't they start shedding early if they're in poor health/condition? We have one buck that shed one antler last week. He looked very skinny and rutted down.

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Old 01-23-2017, 08:22 PM   #184
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I haven't seen, or looked at any data related to health and antler drop. May do a search now out of curiosity. Just in observation, I also have seen some early drops that would seem induced by poor condition or old age, but that's using an inductive process, not a scientific deductive process. So, take with a grain of salt.
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Old 01-23-2017, 08:28 PM   #185
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Won't they start shedding early if they're in poor health/condition? We have one buck that shed one antler last week. He looked very skinny and rutted down.
Here you go. Those Quality Deer Management guys put out some good info and in layman terms.

https://www.qdma.com/causes-early-antler-casting/
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Old 01-23-2017, 08:58 PM   #186
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Yes, poor health and body condition can cause antlers to drop early. Have seen 3 bucks near Big Spring at the end of December that had already dropped...
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Old 01-24-2017, 06:25 AM   #187
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Really enjoying this thread, thanks for the information
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:09 AM   #188
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I put a camera on a scrape next to a well used trail coming from a bedding area that is very remote and receives no travel or pressure and left it year round on video. This area is in a box canyon that is pretty inaccessible to humans except on foot and we stay out of the area.

Deer would check it and pee in it year round. We did not see bucks working the mesquite branch above with their orbitals except for pre rut, rut, and post rut in the fall.

What was interesting was the number of animals other than deer (bobcats, foxes, hogs, etc) that would sniff the scrape when they were in the area.

I think some scrapes are year round 'sign posts' that the deer use, and some of them are made only during rut and neglected afterwards.
Im with ya on that. It seems it is usually a certain specific scrape, I would assume had to do with location common to the majority of deer movement.
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:11 AM   #189
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Here you go. Those Quality Deer Management guys put out some good info and in layman terms.

https://www.qdma.com/causes-early-antler-casting/
Is the QDMA site still running? I sure do like that site.
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Old 01-24-2017, 10:02 AM   #190
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Is the QDMA site still running? I sure do like that site.
The site is still up. How currently active they are, I don't know. But they sure do put out good info. Science based and hunter targeted. I've posted numerous links on various topics.
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Old 01-24-2017, 07:49 PM   #191
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The site is still up. How currently active they are, I don't know. But they sure do put out good info. Science based and hunter targeted. I've posted numerous links on various topics.
I love the website, like you said, lots of info, real life based info, backed by science, but its not just "laboratory" science, its field science that the layman can get involved in.
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Old 01-24-2017, 08:47 PM   #192
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You know you can download all of their articles (QDMA) in PDF format and save them to your computer.


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Old 01-24-2017, 09:23 PM   #193
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Good info here
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Old 01-26-2017, 07:24 AM   #194
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You know you can download all of their articles (QDMA) in PDF format and save them to your computer.


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I would have about as much chance doing that as killing a 200" buck
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Old 01-26-2017, 09:53 AM   #195
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You know you can download all of their articles (QDMA) in PDF format and save them to your computer.


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I don't see an option to download the articles as PDfs. Do you have to be a member/logged in for that?
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:10 PM   #196
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I don't see an option to download the articles as PDfs. Do you have to be a member/logged in for that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
I would have about as much chance doing that as killing a 200" buck


I'd have to go back and download them to remember how exactly but I 'be downloaded and saved every one of them that I thought would be of interest to me. I'm pretty sure you just click on a tab toward the top right side of the page and select how you'd like to download it.


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Old 01-27-2017, 02:30 PM   #197
Hawkpuppy 1
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Thanks guys for all the participation and addition on this thread! So, back on track of new info...

Going into this time of year is as important as almost any other time of the year. It is now that bucks need to still be in as good of physical shape as possible before they drop their antlers. Their body will maintain itself and "rebuild" before expending energy and minerals into their antlers. So, if they are in better shape now (better sex ratio for breeding, feed and habitat) they can start and maximize antler production faster.

While on that note, most bucks have about a 150 day antler growing period. So, for easy math, a 150" deer has to grow at least an inch of antler per day, every day.

Same goes for the does. By now, most should have a fetus that is pretty good sized and they are starting to "eat for two" more often. They need to be in great shape as well to be able to have good birthing weights and to be able to take care of their fawns better. Sickness and health issues at this point can be devastating to fawn survival.
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Old 01-27-2017, 02:36 PM   #198
hammer63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkpuppy 1 View Post
Thanks guys for all the participation and addition on this thread! So, back on track of new info...

Going into this time of year is as important as almost any other time of the year. It is now that bucks need to still be in as good of physical shape as possible before they drop their antlers. Their body will maintain itself and "rebuild" before expending energy and minerals into their antlers. So, if they are in better shape now (better sex ratio for breeding, feed and habitat) they can start and maximize antler production faster.

While on that note, most bucks have about a 150 day antler growing period. So, for easy math, a 150" deer has to grow at least an inch of antler per day, every day.

Same goes for the does. By now, most should have a fetus that is pretty good sized and they are starting to "eat for two" more often. They need to be in great shape as well to be able to have good birthing weights and to be able to take care of their fawns better. Sickness and health issues at this point can be devastating to fawn survival.

What is the approximate time between horn growth completion and rubbing out of velvet?
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Old 01-27-2017, 02:42 PM   #199
Hawkpuppy 1
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From the time antlers are "done" growing to shedding the velvet really all depends on the particular buck. Typically I would say 1-2 weeks. You may or may not have seen when velvet starts to dry up and takes on a "less fuzzy" look and can become a little darker. That's when they typically start to peel out....
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:12 AM   #200
Bdiver
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Do y'all have any recommendations on supplemental protein?
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