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Old 04-14-2014, 03:51 PM   #51
unclefish
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I use a no till drill directly thru the rye thatch. Still experimenting with this as the thatch can be quite thick. Yesterday I experimented raising the bush hog 5-6" high. Seemed to smooth out the thatch better and I'm not worried about stubble height.Last yr I had no problems but didnt plant the rye as thick as this year.

I've used Alyce clover for years mostly mixed with Joint vetch. They are very compatible though like slightly different soil conditions. Deer clearly prefer the vetch over Alyce but consume both. Both are planted in the spring and in La. if big enough field planted will drop seed which resprouts the following spring. I had a vetch field reseed for 15 yrs before just this fall reworked to plant anew this spring. Of the two I prefer vetch. Lastly both Alyce and vetch have great late summer early fall growth and tend to be where deer are concentrated after the brutal La. summers.

I love Durano. Have planted both Durano and white dutch. Unequivocally Durano does better here. I usually plant Durano with a red clover mix in fall. By year 2 the Durano has taken over. Both are fall planted clovers with different growth characteristics than Alyce or vetch. I'm planting the vetch/Alyce combo in to Crimson as it will have seeded out by early May dieing shortly and the combo will grow thru the thatch.

If I had to choose between Alyce or clover Durano would be unquestioned option. One value to vetch or Alyce over clover is it sometimes can be more available late summer in droughty conditions if clover goes dormant.
I don't own a drill so I'm trying a new method of planting this year by just broadcasting cow peas and milo into the standing Rye and then mowing over it. Some guys on the QDMA site have had great success planting small seeds like this but haven't tried cow peas. I know I will have to double the seeding rate but I think it will work.

I love Durana as well. This is my third season with it and the deer absolutely love it. It goes dormant about mid-June if we get no rain but starts popping out again in Sept when it rains and cools off. I did try some Whitetail Institute white clover last year and its been impressive too but haven't gone through a summer with it yet.
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Old 04-14-2014, 04:12 PM   #52
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That should work. One thing I've noticed with my mower...16' bat wing... is that it tends to 'row up' the grass especially if I mow low. It's why I've been experimenting raising the deck higher. If yours does that could effect success though cow peas and certainly milo may come up just sitting on top of the ground if you get lucky with rain.
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Old 04-15-2014, 07:00 PM   #53
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Here is a close up pic of last falls planting. Easy to see the crimson and small grains. Also can pic out the round leafed winter peas. Harder to see the radishes but they survived in this field and are going to seed. Will be curious to see if they come back...and when. ..summer or fall. This is a 13 acre field to be planted in straight sunflowers for doves.
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Old 04-15-2014, 07:04 PM   #54
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Here are some of the radishes picked from same field. This was my first year to plant them and I think they are great. I've never seen deer jump on a new plant as fast as the radishes. Plus the surviving radishes do a great job of penetrating deep in to the soil loosening it and sequestering nutrients for the subsequent crop
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Old 04-19-2014, 12:45 PM   #55
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Bees have finally arrived. Been trying to start bees for several years and couldnt find anyone to be a beekeeper. My son has volunteered , the bees have arrived, honey and pollenation to follow. If all goes as planned will have hives scattered throughout the farm.
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:19 PM   #56
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That's awesome
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:16 AM   #57
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Bees have finally arrived. Been trying to start bees for several years and couldnt find anyone to be a beekeeper. My son has volunteered , the bees have arrived, honey and pollenation to follow. If all goes as planned will have hives scattered throughout the farm.
I've never heard of this. Learn something new everyday.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:05 AM   #58
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THought I would post some pics of the better sheds we found this yr. THis is a 101" shed from a 5 yr old. G-2 17", G-3 13", G-4 10". Great mass but curiously only 23" mainbeam.Believe the other side to be closer to 90" making him ~ 210". Impressive for basically a clean 10 pt.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:09 AM   #59
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This is a 7 yr old 8 pt. Has 16" G-2. I have never seen this deer on the hoof. Has been ~ 170 with only 16" spread for last couple years.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:16 AM   #60
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This from a beautiful 4 yr old 10 pt with matching 3 kickers on each side. The side we found has an additional 3" kicker on his base and scores 90". Figure the other side at 87" and he score ~ 195"
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:22 AM   #61
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Last one; Another 4 yr old. Has just over 29" mass. Not sure how to score but who cares.Best guess is that we had 18 bucks over 160" .
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:31 AM   #62
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Impressive
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:16 AM   #63
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Big sheds!
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:22 AM   #64
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wow..............
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:55 AM   #65
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really great management strategies, your hard work is definately paying off
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:10 PM   #66
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great sheds
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:38 PM   #67
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Great thread!
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Old 04-27-2014, 09:06 PM   #68
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I chickened out! My original plan was to drill joint vetch and Alyce clover in to standing crimson clover thatch. At the last minute I decided to disc the clover under and cultipak. Then broadcast the seed with 4 wheeler and spreader I can control very accurately. Will cultipak again after spreading. Main reason is the vetch seed is very small and expensive. Was uncomfortable putting it in drill. I know this method works as I have used it before. The crimson has basically died out so it should reseed this winter which is what I want. Planting will take place later next week.
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Old 04-27-2014, 09:29 PM   #69
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Awesome stuff! Following!
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Old 04-27-2014, 09:48 PM   #70
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Im tunned in Rusty!!!! looks like a great place and awesome sheds!!!!
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Old 04-27-2014, 10:27 PM   #71
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Did you say this was in Cenla, my homeland?? Whereabouts? Very impressive!
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Old 04-28-2014, 07:07 AM   #72
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Did you say this was in Cenla, my homeland?? Whereabouts? Very impressive!
Pineville, Rigolette bayou
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Old 04-28-2014, 02:11 PM   #73
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Spraying clover fields with Axial today. Axial is rye grass specific herbicide which for us works faster and more effective than Section. Left unaddressed over time the rye grass gets so thick it will start smothering clover. PLan to start planting tomorrow as it looks like the rains missed us today.
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Old 04-29-2014, 02:11 PM   #74
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Planting Time!!! Got 1/2" rain yesterday, seed arrived and drill is loaded. Cow peas, soybeans, sunflowers,pearl millet, joint vetch, and Alyce clover going in to soil. Will take at least a week maybe more.
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Old 04-29-2014, 02:20 PM   #75
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In the mean time the clover is doing fantastic. Thus no gaps in annual nutrition. Here is an 11 acre field planted in Durano clover. Hard to see but there is a row of fruit trees planted along one edge. About a dozen apple and pear trees of various varieties. There are clover fields scattered all over the farm.
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Old 04-29-2014, 02:40 PM   #76
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What is the nutritional value of clover? Just out of curiosity.

What do you do for predator control or is there not much of a problem with coyotes in LA?
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Old 04-29-2014, 03:19 PM   #77
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that clover looks great, beautiful place. really hope i can gather some more land in the future and get on a path like this.
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Old 04-29-2014, 03:42 PM   #78
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What is the nutritional value of clover? Just out of curiosity.

What do you do for predator control or is there not much of a problem with coyotes in LA?
As with many things the nutritional content of clover 'depends'...Stage of growth, type of clover, soil nutrition etc. But all in all a very high quality feed with some clovers rivaling alfalfa for quality. Frequently protein content is in excess of 20% with very high digestibility.

I do no predator control. Never have. If I shared my full belief system on predators, habitat ecology, and natures symbiotic relationships I would probably be run off the green screen. And yes we have all predators native to our part of the country.

A very short version is that I also have a ranch deep in the heart of the Rio Grande brush country. We have as many predators as the country can support including lions, and a very healthy population of coyotes. Our habitat is very healthy and I see almost no predation problems. The exception to that is occasionally I have to address lions...never coyotes. I can elaborate in great detail if interested but know that we hardly ever loose bucks once they get old enough to be identified.
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:40 AM   #79
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Continuing planting today. 15 acre field with mix of 25lbs/acre soybeans, 25 lbs/acre cow peas, 3 lbs acre sunflowers, 3 lbs/acre pearl millet. I mixed the soybeans and peas at 50/50 to add diversity in this larger field and also because the beans were significantly less expensive. THis will be the mix in several of the largest fields.

I love this time of the year. Cant help getting excited about the plantings and the effect it will have on all wildlife including deer. What fun to watch velvet bucks in the summer legumes and it doesnt hurt that they have started getting huge over the years. Who doesnt like watching giant bucks?

I have left standing small grains scattered around the farm which feeds millions of birds including the buntings which are one of our favorites. Also the deer love the wheat heads once matured.
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Old 04-30-2014, 11:43 AM   #80
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wait hold up, you got lions on your Texas ranch. And you hunt whitetail out there too. How big is your lion herd, and how many acres would they take?

You are just on a whole other level, it nice to read all about it and to learn from it.
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Old 04-30-2014, 12:05 PM   #81
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okay, just realized you might be talking about mountain lions, but still with respect to the massive operations you run, I wouldn't be surprised if you had african lions. Also, I still think it's cool if you did. Just think, you would have no problem with poachers. haha
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:08 PM   #82
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^^^^^^^ Thats funny!!! Obviously need to improve my written communication skills. Yes, mountain lions. See a few every year. In fact my buddy had one walk up and peek into the window of his pop up this past season. He got a few photos and a short video clip but no time for shot. Was toooo close.
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Old 04-30-2014, 11:53 PM   #83
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^^^^^^^ Thats funny!!! Obviously need to improve my written communication skills. Yes, mountain lions. See a few every year. In fact my buddy had one walk up and peek into the window of his pop up this past season. He got a few photos and a short video clip but no time for shot. Was toooo close.
Now that's a video I want to see!!! Rusty you're my hero!
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:22 AM   #84
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Great thread Rusty. Thanks for taking the time to share a peace of it with us. Its blowing my mind what you are doing at home. Just a dream for most of us.
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Old 05-01-2014, 05:12 AM   #85
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So do you not have a problem with predators, mainly coyotes, and your fawn population?
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Old 05-01-2014, 05:53 AM   #86
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Awesome following
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:22 AM   #87
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We have no predator problems with our fawn crop or herd in general. Probably several reasons why. First we have a balanced herd with possibly more bucks than does. This makes for a very intense rut and concentrates the timing of fawn drop which is happening about now.

Secondly I leave uncut fields of small grains and clovers such as Arrow leaf and Red Ace scattered around the farm. This is very tall now and makes great fawning cover. Also all the right of ways and other openings are starting to grow up...same thing; great cover.

Thirdly we do timber stand improvement every couple of years. This creates thickets and brush piles all in the woods making for great cover. Couple of years ago I clear cut 48 acres of mature pine and replanted in long leaf pine...[ cool trees]. Hard to catch a fawn in that cover. Plan to clear cut another ~ 10 acres this year damaged from a tornado and do same thing.

All of the above creates great habitat for mice, rats, snakes, birds all of which are easier meals for predators. And once the fawns are a couple of weeks old they generally are safe and can take care of themselves.

THe bigger problem we have is population control. I do not want a whole lot of deer. I want a lot of bucks. Everything is geared to matching the population to the food supply. Question becomes...how many deer do you want to feed? Our plan is to remove ~60 females this year and ~ 15-20 males. I would use the term culling but that requires explanations saved for another post. Culling is about population control nothing more.

All of these concepts work in the brush country as well. Drought makes it harder to execute. Because of supplemental feeding and water our population always tends to be growing there even with a very robust predator population.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:42 AM   #88
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[quote=elgato;8545837]
THe bigger problem we have is population control.


This is the hardest part of management to Me. At least in Mexico it is my only Set Back.....
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:32 AM   #89
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You definitely got it figured out! Really awesome stuff!
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:21 PM   #90
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Great stuff! The problem with predators at a leasr I hunted in the past was lack of cover yo help protect the fawns. Between the drought and over grazing the coyotes could do some serious damage.
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:28 PM   #91
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WoW, really great thread and super read. Keep it up.
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Old 05-01-2014, 01:52 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by dope hunter View Post
Great stuff! The problem with predators at a leasr I hunted in the past was lack of cover yo help protect the fawns. Between the drought and over grazing the coyotes could do some serious damage.
Such usually has been my experience. Not a predator management problem but a habitat/herd mgt. issue.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:14 AM   #93
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Here's blooming honey suckle. While not a native plant is a preferred natural browse. It's all over the farm. Reason I show this picture is that while hard to see it is all over the ground as well as climbing up the trees. Honey suckle is a good indicator plant for population. If herd starts getting to large you will see browsing pressure from about 4' down with very little on the ground. Another way to keep an eye on population.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:24 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by elgato View Post
As with many things the nutritional content of clover 'depends'...Stage of growth, type of clover, soil nutrition etc. But all in all a very high quality feed with some clovers rivaling alfalfa for quality. Frequently protein content is in excess of 20% with very high digestibility.

I do no predator control. Never have. If I shared my full belief system on predators, habitat ecology, and natures symbiotic relationships I would probably be run off the green screen. And yes we have all predators native to our part of the country.

A very short version is that I also have a ranch deep in the heart of the Rio Grande brush country. We have as many predators as the country can support including lions, and a very healthy population of coyotes. Our habitat is very healthy and I see almost no predation problems. The exception to that is occasionally I have to address lions...never coyotes. I can elaborate in great detail if interested but know that we hardly ever loose bucks once they get old enough to be identified.
You obviously have a tremendous deer heard, so you are doing things right. We have tried to plant oats a few times at my ranch in South Texas, with little success, so learning about food plot practices is very interesting to me. Deer management varies so much from state to state.
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Old 05-02-2014, 12:36 PM   #95
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At one time I vowed to be the dry land food plot king of the Rio Grande brush country. My trusted biologist told me it probably wouldnt work. I assumed they had underestimated me. After a decade of failure with tail tucked between my legs I concluded you cant consistently grow crops down there. Now I only plant there where I can irrigate.

Much easier here in La. where is actually rains.
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:45 PM   #96
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Quote:
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At one time I vowed to be the dry land food plot king of the Rio Grande brush country. My trusted biologist told me it probably wouldnt work. I assumed they had underestimated me. After a decade of failure with tail tucked between my legs I concluded you cant consistently grow crops down there. Now I only plant there where I can irrigate.

Much easier here in La. where is actually rains.
Best thing that can be done for places west of 35 is to manage your browse to the best of your abilities and hope for average rainfall. Seems as though it's always feast or famine when it comes to rain
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Old 05-04-2014, 02:13 PM   #97
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About 6 yrs ago I decided to plant pine trees in hay meadows and cattle pastures that defined the perimeter of the farm. These fields were cleared nearly 40 yrs ago as a impediment to the rampant poaching and trespass the property was experiencing believing that people were less inclined to cross a several hundred yard wide open field to get to the woods. They served their purpose well and that coupled with sheriffs in full uniform patrolling the property lent the land more manageable. Ultimately the fields were less necessary and I found little pleasure in the cattle or hay business.

Now the pine plantation is growing up creating a new diverse habitat which all the critters enjoy. I see deer going in there regularly both as escape and to loiter in the shade with a breeze blowing underneath the canopy. Win Win!
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Old 05-04-2014, 03:12 PM   #98
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May haws about to ripen. Berries make a fantastic jelly . THe birds, squirrels, coons, possums, turkeys, deer...just about everything...likes them. Over the years I have planted numerous orchards around the farm with various varieties of pears, apples, crab apples, plums, Japanese persimmons, and may haws.

Last couple of years I've been experimenting with Dunstan chestnuts with mixed results. I've planted about 40 of them with only modest survival success. Marketing may be better than reality with them?
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Old 05-04-2014, 03:38 PM   #99
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Old 05-04-2014, 03:43 PM   #100
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one of the most informative thread ive seen on tbh, and after almost 4 years of being on here this will be by first thread to subscribe to Thanks! curious to know if your a biologist or just learn all this information over the years threw trail and error?
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