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Old 10-07-2019, 03:45 AM   #1
PlanoDano
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Default Allowing the Turks to take out our allies

https://apnews.com/456d16ba55284c0f8ab73b0467e02e53

Folks, what have we become? There were some underhanded maneuvers during the cold war but all and all we were on the side of right. We need to get back to living up to the values that made our country great.
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Old 10-07-2019, 06:10 AM   #2
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I say bring our 1,000 fighting men home.. The fighting over there has been going on since the beginning of time.. They love killing each other..
It will never stop or be stopped.. Let GOD sort it out..
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Old 10-07-2019, 09:57 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttaxidermy View Post
I say bring our 1,000 fighting men home.. The fighting over there has been going on since the beginning of time.. They love killing each other..
It will never stop or be stopped.. Let GOD sort it out..
ditto
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Old 10-07-2019, 12:30 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by ttaxidermy View Post
I say bring our 1,000 fighting men home.. The fighting over there has been going on since the beginning of time.. They love killing each other..
It will never stop or be stopped.. Let GOD sort it out..
Truth here. They will never stop fighting each other.
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Old 10-07-2019, 12:51 PM   #5
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This probably seals the fate of the Kurds. Probably our best and toughest allies in the region.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:13 PM   #6
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I incorrectly assumed the Kurds were Christian, and that is why we supported them. But upon further research they are 98% Sunni Muslim.

And Turkey is - "98.3% of Turks revealed they were Muslim. Most Muslims in Turkey are Sunnis forming about 80.5%"

So, I guess I cant really figure out what they are killing each over and why we got involved in the first place?
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:28 PM   #7
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I know nothing about the Kurd history so I got no personal opinion. I am surprised that we have some highly respected people coming out against this.
The question I have though is did we have a end strategy plan with the Kurds that we are backing out of? ...or are we supposed to fight at there side till end of time because we buddies?
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:40 PM   #8
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From what I understand, the Kurds are a people without a nation. They inhabit some of Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iraq. They would like to claim all of their territory and turn it into their own nation, which would take their land away from the other countries that currently claim it. The Turks and others in those neighboring countries have never treated the Kurds well. The Kurds were our allies in fighting ISIS, but the Turks still hate the Kurds whether they hate ISIS or not.

If anybody can ever figure out how to get all the muslims to quit hating and fighting everybody and each other, it would be a miracle.
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Old 10-07-2019, 06:58 PM   #9
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I'm torn in that if we turn our backs on them after they helped us defeat ISIS I fear they will be slaughtered and yet I want our guys to come home. If we leave I think it will only be a matter of time before we have to return and when we do how hard will it be to build alliances when those in that region know we will turn our backs on them at a moment's notice.

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Old 10-07-2019, 07:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
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I know nothing about the Kurd history so I got no personal opinion. I am surprised that we have some highly respected people coming out against this.
The question I have though is did we have a end strategy plan with the Kurds that we are backing out of? ...or are we supposed to fight at there side till end of time because we buddies?
Remember those people that were gassed by Sadaam in northern Iraq? Those were the Kurds.

Shane hit most of the rest of the story.

They're also the people doing much of the fighting against ISIS in Syria and Iraq. The Kurdish militia in Syria is called the YPG, and Turkey has designated them terrorists because of their ties to the Kurdistan Workers Party in Turkey, an insurgent group in Turkey.

So the US troops embedded with YPG are the only thing keeping Turkey from crossing the Syrian border and wiping them out. Since we're pulling our troops, they're f'd.

Since Erdogan has cemented his power and moved Turkey into more a hardline of Islam, I don't see things going well for the kurds there either.
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Old 10-07-2019, 08:13 PM   #11
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I'm torn in that if we turn our backs on them after they helped us defeat ISIS I fear they will be slaughtered and yet I want our guys to come home. If we leave I think it will only be a matter of time before we have to return and when we do how hard will it be to build alliances when those in that region know we will turn our backs on them at a moment's notice.

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Taking out ISIS benefitted them waaayy more than it benefitted us....
I don't want to lose anymore of our warriors fighting over that POS sand box. Enough is enough... Bring them home and if the Kurds can't take the land they want on their own then they had better conform...

Don't start no Sh$t and there want be no Sh$t!!!!
When everyone on this planet is dead those idiots will still be fighting over worthless sand...

They are never happy.. Muslims come here to escape that Sh$t hole and try do start the same Sh$t here.... They are all crazy!!
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Old 10-07-2019, 08:17 PM   #12
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Aren’t the Turks and the Kurds both our Allies? Aren’t we conducting operations within a country that does not want us there?

Its the American way folks !

Pull Out, from experience!

Ain’t no good live moon god worshiper
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Old 10-07-2019, 08:29 PM   #13
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Anybody know exactly what the Kurds were promised?? Cause I doubt they were promised that we would help them fight the Turks. All that **** hole other wise known as the sand box is a mess that we need to stay out of.
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Old 10-07-2019, 08:48 PM   #14
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Pedernal,

The answer could be they are to agitate the Turks to destabilize the current leader. Usually any force we back has several missions.

Meanwhile the deep state tells us how much safer America is for us to stay there but we don’t do dammit about our own crime at home.
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Old 10-07-2019, 09:27 PM   #15
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From my understanding of history, (I may be incorrect) The Ottoman Empire (basically todayís Middle East and Turkey) never shouldíve entered the great war on the Central powers side. It was weakened when it entered and the war was the final nail in the coffin.. (it also had the help of a Brit agent that was in Arabia helping start civil unrest (ts Lawrence of Lawrence of Arabia fame)
Anyway, when the empire was split up (mainly by the Brits and French, aka, the victors) into the countries we know today, the powers that be werenít considering ethnicities, religions, or Sunni/Shiite . The Kurds pretty much got the short end of the stick and their native lands theyíve inhabited for generations were split amongst all the countries today that hate each other. (Hence Kurds in Syria, Iraq, turkey)
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Old 10-07-2019, 10:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoof View Post
This probably seals the fate of the Kurds. Probably our best and toughest allies in the region.
They were. They got weapons from us so they could kill IS and other enemies of theirĎs and oursí.

I think the 1000 soldiers is actually 100 The 1000 number is the number of IS prisoners held in Kurdish prisons, I believe. Nobody else would hold them.
This was good for Russia, Iran, Turkey...
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Old 10-08-2019, 04:54 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny44 View Post
Arenít the Turks and the Kurds both our Allies? Arenít we conducting operations within a country that does not want us there?

Its the American way folks !

Pull Out, from experience!

Ainít no good live moon god worshiper
Yes, Turkey is a member of NATO so they are our allies.

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Old 10-08-2019, 06:35 AM   #18
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I’m 100% in agreement on staying out of Muslim country’s and letting them do their thing, but the past has shown we have to keep them in check or they will bring the fight to us.
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:40 AM   #19
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Does this also spell another immigration influx problem brewing for Europe?
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:45 AM   #20
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I thought our troops were only going to be there 30 days anyway?
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane View Post
From what I understand, the Kurds are a people without a nation. They inhabit some of Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iraq. They would like to claim all of their territory and turn it into their own nation, which would take their land away from the other countries that currently claim it. The Turks and others in those neighboring countries have never treated the Kurds well. The Kurds were our allies in fighting ISIS, but the Turks still hate the Kurds whether they hate ISIS or not.

If anybody can ever figure out how to get all the muslims to quit hating and fighting everybody and each other, it would be a miracle.
Until Muslims learn to love their children and themselves more than they hate their enemy they will never know peace. Keeping soldiers on the ground as peace troops is a waste of effort and lives. We can control and protect America from the air. MOABs are effective in knocking out large areas.
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:47 AM   #22
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How are they are funding these wars that dont end?
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:11 PM   #23
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Until Muslims learn to love their children and themselves more than they hate their enemy they will never know peace. Keeping soldiers on the ground as peace troops is a waste of effort and lives. We can control and protect America from the air. MOABs are effective in knocking out large areas.
Exactly
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:12 PM   #24
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How are they are funding these wars that dont end?
Its deducted from our pay checks..
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:36 PM   #25
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How are they are funding these wars that dont end?
Heroin smuggling mostly.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:16 PM   #26
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Estimates are around 11,000 plus ISIS fighters in captivity in the Kurdish region of Syria. Good chance those guys could end up back on the circuit. Turkey ainít gonna take them.
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:13 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Pedernal View Post
Anybody know exactly what the Kurds were promised?? Cause I doubt they were promised that we would help them fight the Turks. All that **** hole other wise known as the sand box is a mess that we need to stay out of.
This is the question. While I think we should keep our word to those that help with whatever cause were trying to accomplish, at some point we have to say we're done and move on.

I'm not well informed on this situation in particular, but if the descriptions in previous posts are accurate, that's a never ending fight;
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:36 PM   #28
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Default Allowing the Turks to take out our allies

1) No way the Turks will be able to suppress IS without the Kurds. Theyíre weak fighters.
2) 1000 IS psychos will bust out of jail when the Kurds are gone.
3) This is the second time weíve bailed on the Kurds. We encouraged them to rise up in Iraq after ODS and then walked away from them, sadam slaughtered them as soon as we walked away.


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Old 10-08-2019, 08:59 PM   #29
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I say bring our 1,000 fighting men home.. The fighting over there has been going on since the beginning of time.. They love killing each other..
It will never stop or be stopped.. Let GOD sort it out..
I concur.
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Old 10-08-2019, 09:01 PM   #30
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idk, but I think that Trump will provide them with all the hardware and ammo they need... just no warm bodies.

let them kill each other till their hearts content.
NONE OF THEM are our friends imo.

they have been killing each other for centuries, why would they stop now?
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:19 PM   #31
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I think it is time to bring our soldiers home. Why spill American blood in a region that has been at war since Biblical times. Many members of our Government want to continue to keep our soldiers in the region. I did one tour in the Middle East in 2003 into 2004 in Kuwait and Iraq. Its easy for some people in America to want war when they or their kids are safe at home and who will never serve in a combat zone ie: the political elite and their kids. I have a son in the Army, an Infantry unit. And I pray that he never has to go and fight useless war that will continue for another 1000 years, because these zealots can't get along with each other. One thing I will say about them though, is Middle Eastern Governments, are smart and corrupt. They know our politicians are stupid and our politicians will send them our kids to fight their war. This isn't our fight anymore. Its a fight that can't be won, EVER.
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:05 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by stickerpatch59 View Post
idk, but I think that Trump will provide them with all the hardware and ammo they need... just no warm bodies.
Too late for that. Turkey is already rolling in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stickerpatch59 View Post
let them kill each other till their hearts content.
NONE OF THEM are our friends imo.

they have been killing each other for centuries, why would they stop now?
The Kurds have been our only reliable partner in the middle east outside of the Israelis. And we just ditched them with no warning, no time to make plans. How's that look to our other allies? I mean, really, how hard would it have been to spend the months in negotiations with Turkey and the Kurds to find a solution?
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:37 AM   #33
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Here's the best article I've seen so far on this topic. I don't know anything about Jim Carfano, but if he's with the Heritage Foundation he is most likely solid. Good info...

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/10/...ps-syria-move/
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:38 AM   #34
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And if Ilhan Omar is against pulling troops out, then pulling them out must be a good thing. She's clueless on most things, but she's in the loop with the terrorists and will side with them every time.

https://dailycaller.com/2019/10/07/i...ar-trump-isis/
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:08 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanoDano View Post
https://apnews.com/456d16ba55284c0f8ab73b0467e02e53

Folks, what have we become? There were some underhanded maneuvers during the cold war but all and all we were on the side of right. We need to get back to living up to the values that made our country great.
We are what we are, that is to say, we havenít become anything different than what we have always been.

Where you are perplexed is that you have confused the enemy of our enemy as our friend. We arenít friends. The enemy of our enemy often ends up being our next enemy, using our hardware, albeit outdated, against us.

As exhibit A I present to Afghanistan. Or maybe you prefer the Rebels in Libya.
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:14 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordvader View Post
I think it is time to bring our soldiers home. Why spill American blood in a region that has been at war since Biblical times. Many members of our Government want to continue to keep our soldiers in the region. I did one tour in the Middle East in 2003 into 2004 in Kuwait and Iraq. Its easy for some people in America to want war when they or their kids are safe at home and who will never serve in a combat zone ie: the political elite and their kids. I have a son in the Army, an Infantry unit. And I pray that he never has to go and fight useless war that will continue for another 1000 years, because these zealots can't get along with each other. One thing I will say about them though, is Middle Eastern Governments, are smart and corrupt. They know our politicians are stupid and our politicians will send them our kids to fight their war. This isn't our fight anymore. Its a fight that can't be won, EVER.
There was no blood being spilled while our troops were there. Erdogan has been losing support in Turkey having his hard-line religious party suffer defeat in Instanbul a few months ago to a more secularist party. He needs military action to try and drum up support and give an excuse to suspend what civil liberties remain.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:17 PM   #37
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From Shanes article -

What did the U.S. do? Well, if you actually read the statement of the Department of Defense, which actually explains this, we didnít give permission for the Turks to do this. They didnít ask permission. And the reality is we canít stop them from doing this. We have a couple of hundred soldiers in the entire country. We donít have enough Ö to prevent the Turks from doing anything unless weíre going to start bombing the Turkish military, which I donít think weíre going to do.

So they didnít ask our permission. They said they were going to do this and what we did, which was actually probably appropriate, [was] we made sure that Americans werenít in harmís way, so if things went bad, our guys wouldnít get hurt.


Pretty good run down of the situation, we dont need to be the worlds police.

I was asking about how they fund these wars, because I have read that these fighters changes sides fairly regularly depending on who pays the most. I dont think that it is a surprise to a region that has spent most of its existence at war, that allies can change.
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:11 PM   #38
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... we dont need to be the worlds police.
So what should we do about Israel?
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:23 PM   #39
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The Turks arent attacking Israel Tfan
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:02 PM   #40
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The Turks arent attacking Israel Tfan


Not yet. But it is a concern. Quickly moving moving into a fundamentalist dictatorship and they have nukes. Nukes, that as I understand it we gave them.
Iíd like nothing more than for the region to figure it out or die trying but left unchecked they will bring the fight back to our door. Thatís my worry.
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:26 PM   #41
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Not yet. But it is a concern. Quickly moving moving into a fundamentalist dictatorship and they have nukes. Nukes, that as I understand it we gave them.
Iíd like nothing more than for the region to figure it out or die trying but left unchecked they will bring the fight back to our door. Thatís my worry.
NUKES? who gave them to the Turks? I can guarantee it wasn't Trump.

BTW... I don't think that they have any nukes. if there ever were any there the U.S. would have removed them long ago. Ö I hope
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:30 PM   #42
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...eapons_sharing
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:38 PM   #43
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aren't these weapons on U.S. military controlled installations and probably carried by U.S. aircraft?

I don't think that the Turks have any tactical control over these weapons.
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:00 PM   #44
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I'm a little torn on whole deal & wish I knew more about the effects of the various fallouts depending on who is the victor...my concern is the leaving creates an screwed up vacuum to create new chaos. It's so complicated with Russia having her tentacles in it too. I don't know enough to know if the resources involved help or hurt the US?? Seems like such a small fraction of presence for the toll this little corner of the world is taking with our leaving.

I predict sanctions for Turkey.
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Old 10-10-2019, 01:44 AM   #45
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aren't these weapons on U.S. military controlled installations and probably carried by U.S. aircraft?

I don't think that the Turks have any tactical control over these weapons.
Correct. Turkey is not a nuclear state.

But they have become much more fundamentally Islamic under Erdogan. He's basically a full on dictator now, who has increasingly turned to Russia for support.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:30 AM   #46
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Kurds are our allies?
The Kurdistan Workersí Party (PKK) is an armed terrorist organization, listed as such by the United States and the European Union. Founded in 1974 and assuming paramilitary functions in 1984, the Marxist-Leninist and separatist PKK has used violence and terrorism in pursuit of Kurdish secession from the Republic of Turkey. PKK actions and terror tactics have led to tens of thousands of military and civilian deaths over the past decades and have prevented lasting stability in southeastern Turkey.

Seems to me Trump is just getting us back on track and undoing more of Obama's mess. It was pretty obvious that Obama catered to the various muslim groups as he said so himself that he would stand with his muslim brothers.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:30 AM   #47
Clay C
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Does anyone think for a second that if the Kurds had control they wouldn't be exactly the same as these brutal regimes we just have to protect them against?
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:35 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoof View Post
but left unchecked they will bring the fight back to our door. That’s my worry.
We can "check" them without boots on the ground.

The Kurds, a people (with some gorgeous badA women). And Israel, a country; are a bit different animals.

What do you propose, red lines in the sand and another apology tour?

Funny how Donald can make the Dems/Libs/media reach so hard to try defend a position they recently opposed.

Last edited by batmaninja; 10-10-2019 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:54 AM   #49
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Y'all are right About Turkeys nuke capabilities. I stand corrected.
https://www.newsweek.com/turkey-us-n...ts-own-1457734
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:16 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by muzzlebrake View Post
Seems to me Trump is just getting us back on track and undoing more of Obama's mess. It was pretty obvious that Obama catered to the various muslim groups as he said so himself that he would stand with his muslim brothers.
This statement is a rewording of a passage from page 261 of The Audacity of Hope, in which Barack Obama wrote of the importance of not allowing inflamed public opinion to result in innocent members of immigrant groups being stripped of their rights, denied their due as American citizens, or placed into confinement, as was done with Japanese-American U.S. citizens during World War II. The original contains no specific mention of “Muslims” — Obama was referring to the importance of standing up for and protecting the rights of all immigrants who have become U.S. citizens, and someone altered the wording of the passage to give it a different meaning.

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