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Old 05-14-2020, 08:37 AM   #1
donpablo
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Question Corona Attacks Organs?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/13/healt...?ref=hvper.com

Think this is true or just trying to bring back the fear? Also what's with them switching back and forth from COVID-19 to SARS-CoV-2? Are they talking two different viruses?
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Old 05-14-2020, 10:23 AM   #2
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"The new coronavirus can infect organs throughout the body, including lungs, throat, heart, liver, brain, kidneys and the intestines, researchers reported Wednesday."

Of course it does. It infects the whole body correct?

Just like the flu. If there is a problem with those organs there can be very bad problems and the organs can start shutting down. How is this any different?
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Old 05-14-2020, 10:52 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lungbustr View Post
"The new coronavirus can infect organs throughout the body, including lungs, throat, heart, liver, brain, kidneys and the intestines, researchers reported Wednesday."



Of course it does. It infects the whole body correct?



Just like the flu. If there is a problem with those organs there can be very bad problems and the organs can start shutting down. How is this any different?


It’s not any different and that is why we can’t allow the current protocols for covid to become the new normal. This will mean you will never be able to be in public without a mask and / or gloves and social distancing will never go away. We have to push back on all this nonsense


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Old 05-14-2020, 11:13 AM   #4
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I would say it's false due to the fact that it's CNN.

Disclaimer: I didn't read the article.
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Old 05-14-2020, 11:30 AM   #5
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Who's to say the individuals that organs were "damaged" by C-19 didn't already have those issues?
I work w/a healthy 28 year old guy. Never smoked/drank/drugs in his life. Had a cough that lasted a couple months, went the the Dr. for some meds, got a chest x-ray & has stage 4 lung cancer. ZERO signs/symptoms besides the cough. If he wouldn't have got the chest x-ray back in October but instead got it since this C-19 came out, I guarantee his lung cancer would've been blamed on C-19.
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:11 AM   #6
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May 9, 2020 Autopsies Prove that COVID-19 is a Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (Pulmonary Thrombosis) It is now clear that the whole world has been attacking the so-called Coronavirus Pandemic wrongly due to a serious pathophysiological diagnosis error. According to valuable information from Italian pathologists, ventilators and intensive care units were never needed. Autopsies performed by the Italian pathologists have shown that it is not pneumonia but it is Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (Thrombosis) which ought to be fought with antibiotics, antivirals, anti-inflammatories and anticoagulants. If this is true for all cases, that means the whole world is about to resolve this novel pandemic earlier than expected. However, protocols are currently being changed in Italy who have been adversely affected by this pandemic. The impressive case of a Mexican family in the United States who claimed they were cured with a home remedy was documented: three 500 mg aspirins dissolved in lemon juice boiled with honey, taken hot. The next day they woke up as if nothing had happened to them! Well, the scientific information that follows proves they are right! This information was released by a medical researcher from Italy: “Thanks to 50 autopsies performed on patients who died of COVID-19, Italian pathologists have discovered that IT IS NOT PNEUMONIA, strictly speaking because the virus does not only kill pneumocytes of this type but uses an inflammatory storm to create an endothelial vascular thrombosis.” In disseminated intravascular coagulation, the lung is the most affected because it is the most inflamed, but there is also a heart attack, stroke and many other thromboembolic diseases. In fact, the protocols left antiviral therapies useless and focused on anti-inflammatory and anti-clotting therapies. These therapies should be done immediately, even at home, in which the treatment of patients responds very well. If the Chinese had denounced it, they would have invested in-home therapy, not intensive care! So, the way to fight it is with antibiotics, anti-inflammatories and anticoagulants. An Italian pathologist reports that the hospital in Bergamo did a total of 50 autopsies and one in Milan, 20, that is, the Italian series is the highest in the world, the Chinese did only 3, which seems to fully confirm the information. In a nutshell, the disease is determined by disseminated intravascular coagulation triggered by the virus; therefore, it is not pneumonia but pulmonary thrombosis, a major diagnostic error. Some world leaders doubled the number of resuscitation places in the ICU, with unnecessary exorbitant costs. According to the Italian pathologist, treatment in ICUs is useless if thromboembolism is not resolved first. “If we ventilate a lung where blood does not circulate, it is useless, in fact, nine (9) patients out of ten (10) will die because the problem is cardiovascular, not respiratory.” “It is venous micro thrombosis, not pneumonia, that determines mortality.” According to the literature, inflammation induces thrombosis through a complex but well-known pathophysiological mechanism. Unfortunately, what the scientific literature said, especially Chinese until mid-March was that anti-inflammatory drugs should not be used. Now, the therapy being used in Italy is with anti-inflammatories and antibiotics, as in influenza, and the number of hospitalized patients has been
been reduced. He also discovered that many deaths, even in their 40s, had a history of fever for 10 to 15 days, which were not treated properly. The inflammation does a great deal of tissue damage and creates ground for thrombus formation. However, the main problem is not the virus, but the immune hyper reaction that destroys the cell where the virus is installed. In fact, patients with rheumatoid arthritis have never needed to be admitted to the ICU because they are on corticosteroid therapy, which is a great anti-inflammatory. With this important discovery, it is possible to return to normal life and open closed deals due to the quarantine, though not immediately, but with time. Kindly share so that the health authorities of each country can make their respective analysis of this information, prevent further deaths and redirect investments appropriately; the vaccine may come later.
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Old 05-17-2020, 06:36 AM   #7
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I C an think of a few things that damage the organs and the government in some states encourage their citizens to partake.

Maryjane
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Old 05-17-2020, 06:40 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverFox View Post
May 9, 2020 Autopsies Prove that COVID-19 is a Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (Pulmonary Thrombosis) It is now clear that the whole world has been attacking the so-called Coronavirus Pandemic wrongly due to a serious pathophysiological diagnosis error. According to valuable information from Italian pathologists, ventilators and intensive care units were never needed. Autopsies performed by the Italian pathologists have shown that it is not pneumonia but it is Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (Thrombosis) which ought to be fought with antibiotics, antivirals, anti-inflammatories and anticoagulants. If this is true for all cases, that means the whole world is about to resolve this novel pandemic earlier than expected. However, protocols are currently being changed in Italy who have been adversely affected by this pandemic. The impressive case of a Mexican family in the United States who claimed they were cured with a home remedy was documented: three 500 mg aspirins dissolved in lemon juice boiled with honey, taken hot. The next day they woke up as if nothing had happened to them! Well, the scientific information that follows proves they are right! This information was released by a medical researcher from Italy: “Thanks to 50 autopsies performed on patients who died of COVID-19, Italian pathologists have discovered that IT IS NOT PNEUMONIA, strictly speaking because the virus does not only kill pneumocytes of this type but uses an inflammatory storm to create an endothelial vascular thrombosis.” In disseminated intravascular coagulation, the lung is the most affected because it is the most inflamed, but there is also a heart attack, stroke and many other thromboembolic diseases. In fact, the protocols left antiviral therapies useless and focused on anti-inflammatory and anti-clotting therapies. These therapies should be done immediately, even at home, in which the treatment of patients responds very well. If the Chinese had denounced it, they would have invested in-home therapy, not intensive care! So, the way to fight it is with antibiotics, anti-inflammatories and anticoagulants. An Italian pathologist reports that the hospital in Bergamo did a total of 50 autopsies and one in Milan, 20, that is, the Italian series is the highest in the world, the Chinese did only 3, which seems to fully confirm the information. In a nutshell, the disease is determined by disseminated intravascular coagulation triggered by the virus; therefore, it is not pneumonia but pulmonary thrombosis, a major diagnostic error. Some world leaders doubled the number of resuscitation places in the ICU, with unnecessary exorbitant costs. According to the Italian pathologist, treatment in ICUs is useless if thromboembolism is not resolved first. “If we ventilate a lung where blood does not circulate, it is useless, in fact, nine (9) patients out of ten (10) will die because the problem is cardiovascular, not respiratory.” “It is venous micro thrombosis, not pneumonia, that determines mortality.” According to the literature, inflammation induces thrombosis through a complex but well-known pathophysiological mechanism. Unfortunately, what the scientific literature said, especially Chinese until mid-March was that anti-inflammatory drugs should not be used. Now, the therapy being used in Italy is with anti-inflammatories and antibiotics, as in influenza, and the number of hospitalized patients has been
been reduced. He also discovered that many deaths, even in their 40s, had a history of fever for 10 to 15 days, which were not treated properly. The inflammation does a great deal of tissue damage and creates ground for thrombus formation. However, the main problem is not the virus, but the immune hyper reaction that destroys the cell where the virus is installed. In fact, patients with rheumatoid arthritis have never needed to be admitted to the ICU because they are on corticosteroid therapy, which is a great anti-inflammatory. With this important discovery, it is possible to return to normal life and open closed deals due to the quarantine, though not immediately, but with time. Kindly share so that the health authorities of each country can make their respective analysis of this information, prevent further deaths and redirect investments appropriately; the vaccine may come later.


Interesting
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Old 05-17-2020, 08:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverFox View Post
May 9, 2020 Autopsies Prove that COVID-19 is a Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (Pulmonary Thrombosis) It is now clear that the whole world has been attacking the so-called Coronavirus Pandemic wrongly due to a serious pathophysiological diagnosis error. According to valuable information from Italian pathologists, ventilators and intensive care units were never needed. Autopsies performed by the Italian pathologists have shown that it is not pneumonia but it is Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (Thrombosis) which ought to be fought with antibiotics, antivirals, anti-inflammatories and anticoagulants. If this is true for all cases, that means the whole world is about to resolve this novel pandemic earlier than expected. However, protocols are currently being changed in Italy who have been adversely affected by this pandemic. The impressive case of a Mexican family in the United States who claimed they were cured with a home remedy was documented: three 500 mg aspirins dissolved in lemon juice boiled with honey, taken hot. The next day they woke up as if nothing had happened to them! Well, the scientific information that follows proves they are right! This information was released by a medical researcher from Italy: “Thanks to 50 autopsies performed on patients who died of COVID-19, Italian pathologists have discovered that IT IS NOT PNEUMONIA, strictly speaking because the virus does not only kill pneumocytes of this type but uses an inflammatory storm to create an endothelial vascular thrombosis.” In disseminated intravascular coagulation, the lung is the most affected because it is the most inflamed, but there is also a heart attack, stroke and many other thromboembolic diseases. In fact, the protocols left antiviral therapies useless and focused on anti-inflammatory and anti-clotting therapies. These therapies should be done immediately, even at home, in which the treatment of patients responds very well. If the Chinese had denounced it, they would have invested in-home therapy, not intensive care! So, the way to fight it is with antibiotics, anti-inflammatories and anticoagulants. An Italian pathologist reports that the hospital in Bergamo did a total of 50 autopsies and one in Milan, 20, that is, the Italian series is the highest in the world, the Chinese did only 3, which seems to fully confirm the information. In a nutshell, the disease is determined by disseminated intravascular coagulation triggered by the virus; therefore, it is not pneumonia but pulmonary thrombosis, a major diagnostic error. Some world leaders doubled the number of resuscitation places in the ICU, with unnecessary exorbitant costs. According to the Italian pathologist, treatment in ICUs is useless if thromboembolism is not resolved first. “If we ventilate a lung where blood does not circulate, it is useless, in fact, nine (9) patients out of ten (10) will die because the problem is cardiovascular, not respiratory.” “It is venous micro thrombosis, not pneumonia, that determines mortality.” According to the literature, inflammation induces thrombosis through a complex but well-known pathophysiological mechanism. Unfortunately, what the scientific literature said, especially Chinese until mid-March was that anti-inflammatory drugs should not be used. Now, the therapy being used in Italy is with anti-inflammatories and antibiotics, as in influenza, and the number of hospitalized patients has been
been reduced. He also discovered that many deaths, even in their 40s, had a history of fever for 10 to 15 days, which were not treated properly. The inflammation does a great deal of tissue damage and creates ground for thrombus formation. However, the main problem is not the virus, but the immune hyper reaction that destroys the cell where the virus is installed. In fact, patients with rheumatoid arthritis have never needed to be admitted to the ICU because they are on corticosteroid therapy, which is a great anti-inflammatory. With this important discovery, it is possible to return to normal life and open closed deals due to the quarantine, though not immediately, but with time. Kindly share so that the health authorities of each country can make their respective analysis of this information, prevent further deaths and redirect investments appropriately; the vaccine may come later.
Where was this published?
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Old 05-17-2020, 09:32 AM   #10
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Yes, source?
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by double bogey View Post
Yes, source?

Found this 1st try
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...tting-concerns

2nd look same search
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...ovid-19-deaths

Incase of illiteracy ( aren’t able to read) same page search
https://youtu.be/Aj2vB_VITXQ

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020...vid-19-mystery

Last edited by pilar; 05-17-2020 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:45 AM   #12
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I found this article from last month exploring this. The last 5 paragraphs discuss covid.

https://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2...inst-covid-19/
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:50 AM   #13
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That would explain Fauxi telling everyone not to take anti-inflammatory drugs, that they would harm you.
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:52 AM   #14
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Thumbs up Italian diagnosis with reference notes

COVID-19 and haemostasis:
a position paper from Italian Society
on Thrombosis and Haemostasis
(SISET)
Marco Marietta1, Walter Ageno2, Andrea Artoni3, Erica De Candia4,5, Paolo Gresele6, Marina Marchetti7, Rossella Marcucci8, Armando Tripodi3
The ongoing pandemic of Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is severely challenging healthcare systems all around the world, with the need to provide intensive care to a previously inconceivable number of patients.
The clinical spectrum of the disease is very wide, ranging from minor, unspecific symptoms, such as fever, dry cough and diarrhoea, sometimes combined with mild pneumonia and mild dyspnoea, to severe pneumonia with dyspnoea, tachypnoea and disturbed gas exchange, leading in approximately 5% of infected patients to severe lung dysfunction, a need for ventilation, shock or multiple (extra pulmonary) organ failure1. Among the several clinical and biochemical parameters associated with poor prognosis, increased D-dimer levels have gained particular attention as a predictor of the development of acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), the need for admission to an intensive care unit (ICU) or death1-5. On the other hand, disease severity also correlates with pro-inflammatory cytokines (i.e., IL-2, IL6, IL-7, IL-10, G-CSF, IP-10, MCP-1, MIP-1A and TNF-α), although it is not yet clear what is the cause of such a cytokine storm6. These findings are consistent with the already demonstrated close connection between thrombosis and inflammation7,8, two processes that mutually reinforce each other. Indeed, both coagulation factors (pro- and anti-coagulants)9-11 and platelets12-14 are directly implicated in the modulation of the host immune response, displaying proinf lammatory functions that are independent from their haemostatic ef fects. All the above issues have been instrumental in spreading the feeling that COVID-19 is associated with the classical syndrome named disseminated intravascular coagulation (DIC) and the subsequent consumption coagulopathy. Moreover, it has been shown that heparin, beside its anticoagulant ef fects, also displays an anti-inf lammatory action, various immunomodulatory properties, and protects glycocalyx from shedding15. It has also been suggested that dipyridamole, an antiplatelet drug with antiviral and antioxidant properties, has beneficial effects in patients with COVID-1916.
Despite such a tight interconnection between inflammation and haemostasis abnormalities, no good evidence is available of the efficacy/safety of heparin and/or antiplatelet agents on sepsis patients, and many issues remain to be addressed, such as the proper timing, dosages and administration scheme of antithrombotic drugs17-19. Nevertheless, very recent data showed that low molecular weight heparin (LMWH) or unfractionated heparin (UFH) at prophylactic doses are associated with a reduced 28-day mortality in more severe COVID-19 patients displaying a sepsis-induced coagulopathy (SIC) score ≥4 (40.0% vs 64.2%, p=0.029) or D-dimer levels >6-fold the upper limit of
Blood Transfus 2020; DOI 10.2450/2020.0083-20 © SIMTIPRO Srl
All rights reserved - For personal use only No other use without premission
© SIMTIPRO Srl

normal (32.8% vs 52.4%, p=0.017)20. Relevant to this, increased D-dimer levels have already been demonstrated to be associated with a poorer outcome in other cohorts of sepsis patients21, although very recently published data have questioned the prognostic utility of the standard D-dimer test in this setting22. In addition, the reported D-dimercut-offinaChinesepopulationcannotbeapplied to all populations. Indeed, the median age of Chinese patients is significantly lower than the Italian ones, and age significantly correlates with D-dimer levels. Therefore, we cannot translate the D-dimer cut-off adopted by those authors2 to the Italian population. It would be advisable to launch an effort aimed at quickly collecting data on coagulation parameters in COVID-19 patients in Italy, as well as in other countries involved in the pandemic. Although there is no confirmed evidence as yet from the laboratory, it is plausible that the plasma of these patients is hypercoagulable, as suggested by preliminary laboratory information and many clinical observations. Indeed, physicians in the ICU often share the clinical observation that patients with COVID-19 are very hypercoagulable, and that the rate of micro-pulmonary embolism is probably higher than that reported, due to the inherent problems of imaging technology or in performing autopsies.
It is also possible that a pulmonary embolism is already present in more severely ill COVID-19 patients before hospitalisation, thus explaining the reported ineffectiveness of prophylactic doses of heparins during their hospital stay.
The hypothesis of improving the clinical outcome of COVID-19 patients by simple and inexpensive antithrombotic drugs is very attractive, but several issues need to be addressed and clarified before adopting an aggressive anticoagulation approach. They include the appropriate timing of start of treatment, and the type and dosage of drug, while the impact of concomitant medications that are often taken by these subjects should also be taken into consideration. Moreover, it should be noted that approximately 50% of those patients who have died of COVID-19 in Italy had three or more comorbidities such as atrial fibrillation or ischaemic heart disease, of ten requiring anticoagulant or antiplatelet treatment; the management of these is particularly challenging due to the potential interactions of concomitant therapies, namely direct oral anticoagulants (DOAC)23. The picture
is further complicated by the observation that chronic kidney disease is among the most prevalent underlying diseases in hospitalised patients24 and that acute kidney injury is a common finding in deceased patients25; these two conditions have a strong impact on the activity of heparins and DOAC.
While the scientific community is waiting for more robust evidence from properly designed clinical trials with strong end points, the Italian Society on Thrombosis and Haemostasis aims to provide some recommendations, based on expert consensus, for the management of the haemostasis derangement in COVID-19 patients.
• In the general management of patients, the monitoring of laboratory tests should always include haemostasis function and platelet count; deep vein thrombosis (DVT) ultrasound screening should be carried out whenever feasible.
• It is highly recommended that standardised procedures be adopted to collect clinical and laboratory data on all hospitalised patients in order to improve our understanding of the natural history of the disease.
• The use of LMWH, UFH, or fondaparinux at doses indicated for prophylaxis of venous thromboembolism (VTE) is strongly advised in all COVID-19 hospitalised patients; patients with anticoagulant contraindications should be treated with limb compression.
•Thromboprophylaxis should be administered for the entire duration of the hospital stay. This should also be maintained at home for 7-14 days af ter hospital discharge or in the pre-hospital phase, in case of pre-existing or persisting VTE risk factors (i.e., reduced mobility, body mass index (BMI) >30, previous VTE, active cancer, etc.).
• The use of intermediate-dose LMWH (i.e., enoxaparin 4,000 IU subcutaneously every 12 hours) can be considered on an individual basis in patients with multiple risk factors for VTE (i.e., BMI >30, previous VTE, active cancer, etc.).
• The use of therapeutic doses of UFH or LMWH, although a reasonable approach, is currently not supported by evidence outside of established diagnoses of VTE or as a bridging strategy in patients on vitamin k antagonists (VKA), and cannot be recommended as a standard treatment for all COVID-19 patients. In this respect, randomised clinical trials comparing ef ficacy/safety of higher doses of LMWH or UFH to those adopted for
All rights reserved - For personal use only No other use without premission
Blood Transfus 2020; DOI 10.2450/2020.0083-20
Marietta M et al
2
© SIMTIPRO Srl

SISET position paper on COVID-19 and haemostasis
prophylactic use are urgently needed. To improve their clinical usefulness, it is advisable that these trials adopt 13.
simple and clear protocols, and that they are run by large collaborative efforts, hopefully supported by the Italian drug agency (AIFA).
14. Assinger A, Schrottmaier WC, Salzmann M, Rayes J. Platelets in sepsis: an update on experimental models and clinical data. Front Immunol 2019; 10: 1687.
15. Li X, Ma X. The role of heparin in sepsis: much more than just an anticoagulant. Br J Haematol. 2017;179: 389-98.
• In patients requiring therapeutic doses of LMWH or under DOAC, renal function should be monitored and 16. anti-factor Xa or plasma DOAC levels should be tested.
• Both VKA and DOAC display significant interference with 17. concomitant antiviral treatment to which the COVID-19 patients are subjected. An individualised patient- 18. based approach is recommended, aimed at balancing
Liu X, Li Z, Liu S, et al. Therapeutic effects of dipyridamole on COVID-19 patients with coagulation dysfunction. MedRxiv 2020; doi: 10.1101/2020.02.27.20027557. [Ahead of print].
Zarychanski R, Abou-Setta AM, Kanji S, et al; Canadian Critical Care Trials Group. The efficacy and safety of heparin in patients with sepsis: a systematic review and metaanalysis. Crit Care Med. 2015; 43:511-8.
Yamakawa K, Gando S, Ogura H, et al; Japanese Association for Acute Medicine (JAAM) Focused Outcomes Research in Emergency Care in Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome, Sepsis Trauma (FORECAST) Study Group. Identifying sepsis populations benefitting from anticoagulant therapy: a prospective cohort study incorporating a restricted cubic spline regression model. Thromb Haemost 2019; 119: 1740-175.
the risk/benefit ratio of the various antithrombotic strategies, taking into consideration the underlying hypercoagulable state.
• Tight co-operation between all the specialists involved in the treatment of COVID-19 patients is also recommended.
The Authors declare no conf licts of interest.
REFERENCES
1. Wu Z, McGoogan JM. Characteristics of and important lessons from the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) outbreak in China: summary of a report of 72,314 cases from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention. JAMA 2020; doi: 10.1001/jama.2020.2648. [Ahead of print].
2. Tang N, Li D, Wang X, Sun Z. Abnormal coagulation parameters are associated with poor prognosis in patients with novel coronavirus pneumonia. J Thromb Haemost 2020; 18: 844-7.
3. Huang C, Wang Y, Li X et al. Clinical features of patients infected with 2019 novel coronavirus in Wuhan, China. Lancet 2020; 395: 497-506.
4. Han H, Yang L, Liu Ret al. Prominent changes in blood coagulation of patients with SARS-CoV-2 infection. Clin Chem Lab Med 2020; doi: 0.1515/ cclm-2020-0188. [Ahead of print].
5. Thachil J, Tang N, Gando S et al. ISTH interim guidance on recognition and management of coagulopathy in COVID-19. J Thromb Hemost 2020; doi: 10.1111/jth.14810. [Ahead of print].
6. Sarzi-Puttini P, Giorgi V, Sirotti S et al. COVID-19, cytokines and immunosuppression: what can we learn from severe acute respiratory syndrome? Clin Exp Rheumatol 202; 38: 337-42.
7. JacksonSP,Darbousse tR,Schoe nwae lde rSM,e tal.Thromboinflammation: challenges of therapeutically targeting coagulation and other host defense mechanisms. Blood 2019; 133: 906-18.
8. Iba T, Levy JH. Inflammation and thrombosis: roles of neutrophils, platelets and endothelial cells and their interactions in thrombus formation during sepsis. J Thromb Haemost 2018; 16: 231-41.
9. Claushuis TAM, de Stoppelaar SF, Stroo I, et al. Thrombin contributes to protective immunity in pneumonia-derived sepsis via fibrin polymerization and platelet-neutrophil interactions. J Thromb Haemost 2017; 15: 744-57.
10. ChenJ,LiX,LiLetal.CoagulationfactorsVII,IXandXaree ffective antibacterial proteins against drug-resistant Gram-negative bacteria. Cell Research 2019; 29: 711-24.
11. Burzynski LC, Humphry M, Pyrillou K, et al. the coagulation and immune systems are directly linked through the activation of interleukin-1α by thrombin. Immunity 2019; 50:1033-42.e6.
19. Wiewel MA, de Stoppelaar SF, van Vught LA, et al; MARS Consortium. Antiplatelet therapy is not associated with alterations in the presentation, outcome, or host response biomarkers during sepsis: a propensity-matched analysis. Intensive Care Med 2016; 42: 352-60.
20. Tang N, Bai H, Chen X, et al. Anticoagulant treatment is associated with decreased mortality in severe coronavirus disease 2019 patients with coagulopathy. J Thromb Haemost 2020; doi: 10.1111/jth.14817. [Ahead of print].
21. Rodelo JR, De la Rosa G, Valencia ML, et al. D-dimer is a significant prognostic factor in patients with suspected infection and sepsis. Am J Emerg Med 2012; 30: 1991-9.
22. Semeraro F, Ammollo CT, Caironi P, et al. D-dimer corrected for thrombin and plasmin generation is a strong predictor of mortality in patients with sepsis. Blood Transfus 2019; doi: 10.2450/2019.0175-19. [Ahead of print].
23. Istituto Superiore di Sanità. Characteristics of COVID-19 patients dying in Italy. Report based on available data on March 30th, 2020 Available at: https://www.epicentro.iss.it/coronavirus/bollettino/ Report-COVID-19_30_marzo_eng.pdf. Accessed on: 01/04/2020.
24. Emami A, Javanmardi F, Pirbonyeh N, Akbari A. Prevalence of underlying diseases in hospitalized patients with COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis. Arch Acad Emerg Med 2020; 8: e35.
25. Chen T, Wu D, Chen H et al. Clinical characteristics of 113 deceased patients with coronavirus disease 2019: retrospective study BMJ 2020; 368: doi: 10.1136/bmj.m1091. [Ahead of print].
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:56 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by RattlesnakeDan View Post
That would explain Fauxi telling everyone not to take anti-inflammatory drugs, that they would harm you.
If you've done the opposite of what Fauci says to do, you've been correct so far.
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Old 05-17-2020, 11:04 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 100%TtId View Post
If you've done the opposite of what Fauci says to do, you've been correct so far.
Explain how not washing your hands or using hand sanitizer and avoiding ill people is correct?
I don’t understand your point
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Old 05-17-2020, 11:34 AM   #17
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Explain how not washing your hands or using hand sanitizer and avoiding ill people is correct?
I don’t understand your point
In the early stages, he said said CV wasn't a threat, then he said masks weren't necessary, then he said antibiotics, chloroquine, and anti-inflammatory medicines aren't useful, then he says we need to stay locked down a while longer.

He's been contradicted on every major point.

He was correct on hand washing and hand sanitizer, but that's common sense.

We expect better results from the enormous amount of tax money spent on the NIH, CDC, etc.

Why is the breakthrough, cutting-edge info on beating this virus coming out of Italy, South Korea, and other countries who spend a fraction of what we spend on governmental organizations whose purpose is to determine CORRECT public health policy?
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:22 PM   #18
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Explain how not washing your hands or using hand sanitizer and avoiding ill people is correct?
I don’t understand your point
Wow, he got hand washing right. Genius
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:50 PM   #19
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In the early stages, he said said CV wasn't a threat, then he said masks weren't necessary, then he said antibiotics, chloroquine, and anti-inflammatory medicines aren't useful, then he says we need to stay locked down a while longer.

He's been contradicted on every major point.

He was correct on hand washing and hand sanitizer, but that's common sense.

We expect better results from the enormous amount of tax money spent on the NIH, CDC, etc.

Why is the breakthrough, cutting-edge info on beating this virus coming out of Italy, South Korea, and other countries who spend a fraction of what we spend on governmental organizations whose purpose is to determine CORRECT public health policy?
Actually, he was wrong on hand sanitizers too. No guidance has been offered on proper use. Consequently over-use and improper application create resistant strains. This isn’t a foreign idea. We see the same thing in the application of antibiotics and even herbicide application.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.or...resistance.amp
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:55 PM   #20
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If you just take the Hydroxychloroquine, Zinc, and Z-pac early on, you are cured.

If you can’t take that, use 50-100 mg Melatonin divided into four daily dosages and make sure your vitamin D is up.

Its pretty simple, they are trying to kill folk.
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Old 05-17-2020, 04:20 PM   #21
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If you just take the Hydroxychloroquine, Zinc, and Z-pac early on, you are cured.

If you can’t take that, use 50-100 mg Melatonin divided into four daily dosages and make sure your vitamin D is up.

Its pretty simple, they are trying to kill folk.
Yep with the cure you listed you will surely die
Even drugs with some success (remdesivir) are not a magic bullet
I believe a vaccine will be coming soon ( like in a 8-18 month period)
Till then it’s remdesivir, plasma, and anti inflammatory for Acute symptoms
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Old 05-17-2020, 05:19 PM   #22
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Drink that koolaid if you want fella, even Tagamet (Cimetidine) is curing it.

When discussing the subject with liberals and knuckle heads I say, “ don’t take it”.

Why wouldn’t anyone take something that might help prevent the Cytokine storm is beyond me, guess some folk have their principles.

Some funny crap:

“even remdesivir not the magic bullet” why would you think it would be? Because they’ll be dammmedd if a 4 cent pill is going to be allowed to beat Gilead? I had my proof of this concept when the left media accused Trump of making money off of HiDroxy.

“Surely die”, its hardly killing anyone percentage wise, they cannot get their own numbers straight, and a good portion of the dead is because they are withholding early intervention.

“I believe vaccine” thats the funniest of all, no successful corona vaccine to date but I do hope a safe and effective one comes about.

Again, the treatment protocol is akin to having a mass show up on a CT scan and them telling you to come back when its worse. That doctor that said its the ONLY health condition in the history of mankind where early intervention is not the protocol is spot on.

Again, don’t take the cures, one less liberal or knuckle head could be a good thang.

Last edited by Johnny44; 05-17-2020 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 05-17-2020, 05:51 PM   #23
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Drink that koolaid if you want fella, even Tagamet (Cimetidine) is curing it.

When discussing the subject with liberals and knuckle heads I say, “ don’t take it”.

Why wouldn’t anyone take something that might help prevent the Cytokine storm is beyond me, guess some folk have their principles.

Some funny crap:

“even remdesivir not the magic bullet” why would you think it would be? Because they’ll be dammmedd if a 4 cent pill is going to be allowed to beat Gilead? I had my proof of this concept when the left media accused Trump of making money off of HiDroxy.

“Surely die”, its hardly killing anyone percentage wise, they cannot get their own numbers straight, and a good portion of the dead is because they are withholding early intervention.

“I believe vaccine” thats the funniest of all, no successful corona vaccine to date but I do hope a safe and effective one comes about.

Again, the treatment protocol is akin to having a mass show up on a CT scan and them telling you to come back when its worse. That doctor that said its the ONLY health condition in the history of mankind where early intervention is not the protocol is spot on.

Again, don’t take the cures, one less liberal or knuckle head could be a good thang.
You do realize the survival rate is 98+ % right? At that rate I could tell you a suicide mix of Coke, Mt Dew, and Orange Fanta is “curing” Coronavirus
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Old 05-17-2020, 06:45 PM   #24
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You could but I wouldn’t tell you it wasn’t.

I did key in on the “suicide mix” aspect of your assessment. I can only ASSUME you are referring to the Trump cocktail and such. If so, you don’t know much about the safe history of the drugs.

I can tell you without reservation that the sugary soda combo you conceived even in jest is far more toxic and damaging to the body than the Trump cocktail.
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Old 05-17-2020, 09:15 PM   #25
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You could but I wouldn’t tell you it wasn’t.

I did key in on the “suicide mix” aspect of your assessment. I can only ASSUME you are referring to the Trump cocktail and such. If so, you don’t know much about the safe history of the drugs.

I can tell you without reservation that the sugary soda combo you conceived even in jest is far more toxic and damaging to the body than the Trump cocktail.
Watch out you are experiencing side effects of your own Medication
Thorazine (chlorpromazine) is a phenothiazine anti-psychotic medication used to treat psychotic disorders such as schizophrenia or manic-depression, and severe behavioral problems in children. Thorazine is also used to treat nausea and vomiting, anxiety before surgery, chronic hiccups, acute intermittent porphyria, and symptoms of tetanus. The brand name Thorazine is discontinued in the U.S. Generic forms may be available. Common side effects of Thorazine (chlorpromazine) include:

dizziness,
drowsiness,
anxiety, Yes
sleep problems (insomnia), yes
breast swelling or discharge, yes
changes in menstrual periods, yes
weight gain,
swelling in hands or feet, Yes
dry mouth,
stuffy nose,
blurred vision, Yes
constipation, Yes
impotence, Yes
trouble having an orgasm. Yes

Please contact a medical professional If you are experiencing these issues

All rants and not being medicated make Johnny 44 a dull ( weird)read

Last edited by pilar; 05-17-2020 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 05-17-2020, 09:46 PM   #26
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I’m all good, my IGG antibodies according to ARCpoint labs North Austin show positive for Covid-19. Cost me $67 for the info.

Last edited by Johnny44; 05-17-2020 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 05-17-2020, 09:50 PM   #27
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You could but I wouldn’t tell you it wasn’t.

I did key in on the “suicide mix” aspect of your assessment. I can only ASSUME you are referring to the Trump cocktail and such. If so, you don’t know much about the safe history of the drugs.

I can tell you without reservation that the sugary soda combo you conceived even in jest is far more toxic and damaging to the body than the Trump cocktail.
No, nucklehead, I called it a suicide, because that’s what I learned to call a mixture of soft drinks when I was in Jr high.

The point of my post, which you were totally obtuse too, was that you can take any concoction to treat COVID, and so long as that concoction isn’t more than 3% fatal, then 98% of the time you are going to live, because COVID is less than 2% fatal.
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:13 PM   #28
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I’m all good, my IGG antibodies according to ARCpoint labs North Austin show positive for Covid-19. Cost me $67 for the info.
Cool ! I hope your psychological test don’t set you back much $
Nor do your psychology medications

Besides being delusional, what other symptoms are you having?
And I guess they didn’t need to check you for a extra chromosome 21

Last edited by pilar; 05-17-2020 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:21 PM   #29
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Not sure what you are getting at, because I believe in saving folk before they go through hell?

I don’t drink the liberal koolaid?

Best thing about Boerne anymore is the chicken sandwhich at Cibolo Creek brewing co but my loyalty is with the horse.

Last edited by Johnny44; 05-17-2020 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:24 PM   #30
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No, nucklehead, I called it a suicide, because that’s what I learned to call a mixture of soft drinks when I was in Jr high.

The point of my post, which you were totally obtuse too, was that you can take any concoction to treat COVID, and so long as that concoction isn’t more than 3% fatal, then 98% of the time you are going to live, because COVID is less than 2% fatal.
I get it
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:45 PM   #31
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[QUOTE=Johnny44;14874813]Not sure what you are getting at, because I believe in saving folk before they go through hell?

I don’t drink the liberal koolaid?

No koolaid here
Only pure grain alcohol and rainwater
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:59 PM   #32
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Covid has been in humans for years- never has the been a vaccine for any strain. This will be the same. I think everyone that wants to needs to push forward. Those that want to lock themselves in a closet should. I’m tired of people telling me what I should do. If I wish to go out and be exposed to 1000’s of people a day I should be able to- it does not have any negative effect to the people locked in their closet
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Old 05-18-2020, 07:05 AM   #33
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Glen, according to NY 66% of those bad infected were in their closet.
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Old 05-18-2020, 07:57 AM   #34
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Good place for them to be. I may end up dying today but I’ll be standing tall. I’d rather spend a day living and enjoying God’s creations than live a year as a yellow belly
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Old 05-18-2020, 08:34 AM   #35
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Explain how not washing your hands or using hand sanitizer and avoiding ill people is correct?
I don’t understand your point
Well, if no social distancing by being around sick people, with illnesses and diseases, who don’t bath or wash their hands, who abuse alcohol and drugs, hasn’t caused any ill effects.
Our nations homeless population has been minimally affected by C-19. If those were imperative, the homeless population would be vanished.
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Old 05-18-2020, 09:14 AM   #36
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Good place for them to be. I may end up dying today but I’ll be standing tall. I’d rather spend a day living and enjoying God’s creations than live a year as a yellow belly
Me too but when I talk of such the other side on here acts as if I don’t care. I remember a particular discussion when I had my butt in the water on the Guadalupe and a drink in my hand, folk said I didn’t care about bars. I’ve had time to think about it...I don’t

“Endeavor to persevere”
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Old 05-18-2020, 12:46 PM   #37
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Homeless folks have a very good gut flora. Their systems are stronger and anyone’s. They don’t get the flu as much either.
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Old 05-18-2020, 01:25 PM   #38
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Homeless folks have a very good gut flora. Their systems are stronger and anyone’s. They don’t get the flu as much either.

Very good point Glen... Heck, look at Mexico... Remember the old addage, but true statement, "Don't drink the water!"... well it don't bother the home folks in Mexico. They drink it all the time... Dang near kills us gringos. They also haven't been hit by "rona" as hard either. Yes, they've had cases, but based on their population and general health care system, they haven't hit near as bad is the heavily populated big cities in the US...


Herd immunity flat works! Time to get this herd moving again.
I personally have not missed a day's work. I still go where I want, when I want. Only difference for me is that some places I have wanted to go were either not open, or required the stupid mask crap, and I don't want anything bad enough to drink that kool-aid! Technically I'm in the high risk group because of age (in years), but I'm healthy, active, and hardly ever get sick, so I'll take my chances... Besides I'm pretty sure I got it back between Christmas n New Years holiday. Next check up, I'm going to asked to be tested for the antibodies...
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Old 05-18-2020, 02:40 PM   #39
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Homeless folks have a very good gut flora. Their systems are stronger and anyone’s. They don’t get the flu as much either.
Yes, and none of that came from hand sanitizer, bathing, washing hands or social
distancing.
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Old 05-18-2020, 02:49 PM   #40
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Well, if no social distancing by being around sick people, with illnesses and diseases, who don’t bath or wash their hands, who abuse alcohol and drugs, hasn’t caused any ill effects.
Our nations homeless population has been minimally affected by C-19. If those were imperative, the homeless population would be vanished.
While agree with Glen’s statement about gut flora, I also think it is naive to assume there is a low rate of infection in homeless, or lower rate rather, it’s low across segments as it is. But they also tend to shy away from services we all take for granted and with a 98% survival rate, they could walking around carrying the virus with no real reason to go to a doc until death is knocking on their door
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Old 05-18-2020, 08:04 PM   #41
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While agree with Glen’s statement about gut flora, I also think it is naive to assume there is a low rate of infection in homeless, or lower rate rather, it’s low across segments as it is. But they also tend to shy away from services we all take for granted and with a 98% survival rate, they could walking around carrying the virus with no real reason to go to a doc until death is knocking on their door
The homeless people of San Antonio live in the underground tunnels ( entire city’s of them )no telling how many are dead from OD’S , rona ,ect ?
And are only found clogging the exit or at all

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2020...n-san-antonio/
Austin, Dallas, Houston maybe same ?
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Old 05-18-2020, 10:37 PM   #42
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So y’all are saying there’s 100’s of 1,000’s, not 100’s OR 1,000’s, but 100’s OF 1,000’s dead homeless bodies that have gone unseen/unnoticed?
Think about that. That’s just crazy talk!
(I say 100’s OF 1,000’s because that’s how deadly we’re lead to believe this would be if we didn’t follow all “their” safeguards.)
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Old 05-19-2020, 08:06 AM   #43
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So y’all are saying there’s 100’s of 1,000’s, not 100’s OR 1,000’s, but 100’s OF 1,000’s dead homeless bodies that have gone unseen/unnoticed?
Think about that. That’s just crazy talk!
(I say 100’s OF 1,000’s because that’s how deadly we’re lead to believe this would be if we didn’t follow all “their” safeguards.)
I didn’t say anything about dead. I said it was naive to assume the infection rate among homeless is low/lower. At a 2% rate of death it would only be a marginal increase.

Let’s put math to it. 568,000 homeless approx. 2% died would be 11,400. So no, not 100’s of 1000’s. The 11,000 would be spread out over various areas, although 1/2 would likely be in California, and at different times. You would barely notice the uptick
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Old 05-19-2020, 11:23 AM   #44
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I didn’t say anything about dead. I said it was naive to assume the infection rate among homeless is low/lower. At a 2% rate of death it would only be a marginal increase.

Let’s put math to it. 568,000 homeless approx. 2% died would be 11,400. So no, not 100’s of 1000’s. The 11,000 would be spread out over various areas, although 1/2 would likely be in California, and at different times. You would barely notice the uptick
You missed the last sentence of my post, and probably the most important part of it.
Check it out again. I’m not saying the real numbers, I’m saying what they told us was going to happen in the beginning. Millions DEAD in the US alone is what they started with.
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:01 PM   #45
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I will tell you from working at the hospital in one of the largest homeless populations in the Nation. Homeless people tend have immune systems than the rest of the population. I have ran no tests or numbers. This is from sitting in a ER when virus and illness hits.
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:33 PM   #46
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I will tell you from working at the hospital in one of the largest homeless populations in the Nation. Homeless people tend have immune systems than the rest of the population. I have ran no tests or numbers. This is from sitting in a ER when virus and illness hits.
Which is why isolation/quarantine is not the answer.
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Old 05-20-2020, 04:29 PM   #47
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I will tell you from working at the hospital in one of the largest homeless populations in the Nation. Homeless people tend have immune systems than the rest of the population. I have ran no tests or numbers. This is from sitting in a ER when virus and illness hits.
This sentence is missing an operand:

greater than?
equal to?
less than?
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Old 05-20-2020, 05:44 PM   #48
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I will tell you from working at the hospital in one of the largest homeless populations in the Nation. Homeless people tend have immune systems than the rest of the population. I have ran no tests or numbers. This is from sitting in a ER when virus and illness hits.
They are crazy like a fox

“ crazy like a fox", it means that their behavior appears to be insane or nonsensical at first glance, but there's actually something very clever and subtle to it that's working toward their interests in unexpected ways.”

And will get the last laugh in our reticule dependence on operand of course

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