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Old 09-25-2017, 10:53 PM   #1
Black Ice
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Default Need help trouble shooting a scope on an AR

I purchased a Falkor defense .300 win mag AR and mounted a Nikon Monarch on a M-223 mount. I had it bore sighted and tried getting it dialed in this weekend and couldn't get it on paper. I shot it at 100 yards and it shot high and to the left of the target. I tried adjusting it and barley got it on paper to the top left of the target but ran out of adjustment. I'm wondering what I need to do at this point to get it to work?


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Old 09-25-2017, 11:34 PM   #2
Pilgrim
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Are you sure the mount isn't backwards?

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Old 09-25-2017, 11:54 PM   #3
Black Ice
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Are you sure the mount isn't backwards?


It could be lol. I had Bass Pro mount a M-223 mount with a scope and I had to tell him he was putting it on backwards.


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Old 09-26-2017, 01:38 AM   #4
sir shovelhands
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It's on the right direction. So you ran out of both horizontal and vertical adjustment? That's especially concerning.

-Are the base or ring screws loose?
-Do the scope rings match the tube size? 30mm vs 1".
-Since you had some random guy at bass pro put it on: did he torque the scope rings properly, or did he crank down on it?

If none of that tells you anything, try one of your other scopes on it. That will at least clear the rifle if that one works.

Also...just curious. Why not better glass and a better mount for a $6000 rifle?

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Old 09-26-2017, 01:50 AM   #5
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Ide take the mount off and put it back on. Had a vortex red dot that ran out of adjustment. It was the cheap base. Off, back on, everything was fine.

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Old 09-26-2017, 02:02 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by sir shovelhands View Post
It's on the right direction. So you ran out of both horizontal and vertical adjustment? That's especially concerning.

-Are the base or ring screws loose?
-Do the scope rings match the tube size? 30mm vs 1".
-Since you had some random guy at bass pro put it on: did he torque the scope rings properly, or did he crank down on it?

If none of that tells you anything, try one of your other scopes on it. That will at least clear the rifle if that one works.

Also...just curious. Why not better glass and a better mount for a $6000 rifle?


Human error is surely to blame and all of the above suggestions are a good start to figuring it out.

I'm curious about the answer to the last question as well but I still don't see why you would be having that big of an issue if everything is in order.
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Old 09-26-2017, 02:06 AM   #7
Black Ice
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Default Need help trouble shooting a scope on an AR

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Originally Posted by hellbndr23 View Post
Ide take the mount off and put it back on. Had a vortex red dot that ran out of adjustment. It was the cheap base. Off, back on, everything was fine.

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My brother and I took it off and put it back on.




We noticed that the gaps looked different so we moved it up a notch and retightened it.

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Old 09-26-2017, 02:22 AM   #8
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Default Need help trouble shooting a scope on an AR

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Originally Posted by Kmart49 View Post
Human error is surely to blame and all of the above suggestions are a good start to figuring it out.

I'm curious about the answer to the last question as well but I still don't see why you would be having that big of an issue if everything is in order.


I've budgeted 3k for the scope but have only had this rifle for 3 weeks. These rifles are not that easy to walk into a gun shop and pick up off the shelf. I've been trying to get my hands on one for over a year and the only dealer in Louisiana that had one was interstate guns in Hammond. I called Falkor and tried to buy one from shot show and they wouldn't sell any.


For the record try telling your wife you just spent 6k on a rifle and then try and spend 3k on glass at the same time. I would rather sleep with one eye open than both lol.

The Nikon was a spare and I just put it on to try and get some range time behind it before I picked out the mount and scope for it.

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Old 09-26-2017, 02:25 AM   #9
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I've budgeted 3k for the scope but have only had this rifle for 3 weeks. These rifles are not that easy to walk into a gun shop and pick up off the shelf. I've been trying to get my hands on one for over a year and the only dealer in Louisiana that had one was interstate guns in Hammond. I called Falkor and tried to buy one from shot show and they wouldn't sell any.


For the record try telling your wife you just spent 6k on a rifle and then try and spend 3k on glass at the same time. I would rather sleep with one eye open than both lol.


Hence why you're awake at this hour?

It was a valid question and certainly a valid answer. I just have a hard time believing it's the equipment*.
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Old 09-26-2017, 02:31 AM   #10
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Hence why you're awake at this hour?

It was a valid question and certainly a valid answer. I just have a hard time believing it's the equipment*.


I haven't drank all the beer yet!


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Old 09-26-2017, 02:39 AM   #11
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I haven't drank all the beer yet!


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I can certainly appreciate that reasoning.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:01 AM   #12
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I think you are on the right track. Going back to the base and making sure everything is tightened evenly is a good start. The mount you picked is the XR model that has 20 MOA built in to the base to aid you in longrange shooting. After you have checked the base make sure the rings are also evenly tightened. I would also suggest shooting at 25 or 50 yard targets to start your zero. You can go to Nikon's Spot On Program and enter your shooting data and for distance put 25 or 50 yards and 100 or 200 for your zero. It will tell you where your impact needs to be at the shorter distance for your desired zero. Saves time and ammo.
You can bore sight the scope easier at 25 or 50 yards too. Keep us posted and I look forward to a rnage report. I have been looking at Falkor's for a while now. Here's a pic of my JP and the M-Series mount and Nikon scope. All the mount's used to be XR and came without that designation years ago then guys wanted the mount without the 20 MOA built in to it so now you have a choice. Here is also a pic of the new Nikon BLACK Series mount. It is awesome.



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Old 09-26-2017, 11:19 AM   #13
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Tighten rings evenly & to manuf. spec's. When you mount on a rail, push down & forward while tightening the base screws. Make sure they're torqued to manuf. specs. Start @ 25yds. to get on paper & work out from there.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:55 PM   #14
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Honestly, i wouldnt find it hard to believe it would be the equipment. I have a regular ol nikon buckmaster on an old 243 and it shoots lights out as long as there is light out. I have hears several people including myself that has had issues with their "223" set of gear. Me and a coworker could not get them to hit consistently. It is close enough to pop a pig at 100 yds scope but it just sits there now that i have my night vision


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Old 09-27-2017, 07:15 PM   #15
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Any updates?

Something is wrong with your scope or your mount. It's possible there's an issue with the upper receiver but that's a VERY unlikely culprit; especially given the high-end manufacturer. Even some of the suggested issues regarding how you went about mounting the scope to the base or the base to the receiver in NO way could account for you running out of adjustment on a 100yd zero. They can certainly cause issues and should be avoided, for sure, but they're not going to throw you that far off.

Do you have another scope and rings you could try, just to verify that the issue isn't with the receiver? If not, I'd go buy a cheap set of high rings and remount the scope. If the problem is solved you know there's no issue with your receiver (which is the only terrible scenario) and you'll be able to play with your rifle. If the problem is still there, then you know your problem lies in the scope.

I never really understood whether you ran out of elevation adjustment, windage adjustment or both? Running out of windage would concern me worse than elevation only because with that particular scope maybe there's not a lot of elevation adjustment in the first place and the 20moa mount may have eaten up a lot of what was available. You should NEVER run out of windage adjustment on a simple zero. That problem implies a MAJOR issue with one component or another. If you were closer I'd invite you to come over we could try some different scopes and mounts to isolate your problem


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Old 09-27-2017, 07:35 PM   #16
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Just scanned the responses. So this may have been discussed. Some high end gas guns build 20MOA in their rails. So if you use a 20MOA mount then your at 40MOA, which pushes the limits of most scopes from center. Probably not the case, just an idea.
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Old 09-27-2017, 08:31 PM   #17
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Just scanned the responses. So this may have been discussed. Some high end gas guns build 20MOA in their rails. So if you use a 20MOA mount then your at 40MOA, which pushes the limits of most scopes from center. Probably not the case, just an idea.


That's a great point! I didn't think about that. I just checked the Falcor website and they didn't mention a built in 20moa but that doesn't mean it isn't. If I were them I'd probably build it in on a 300wm. I'll be curious to hear from the OP.


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Old 09-28-2017, 10:48 PM   #18
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Default Need help trouble shooting a scope on an AR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horitexan View Post
Any updates?

Something is wrong with your scope or your mount. It's possible there's an issue with the upper receiver but that's a VERY unlikely culprit; especially given the high-end manufacturer. Even some of the suggested issues regarding how you went about mounting the scope to the base or the base to the receiver in NO way could account for you running out of adjustment on a 100yd zero. They can certainly cause issues and should be avoided, for sure, but they're not going to throw you that far off.

Do you have another scope and rings you could try, just to verify that the issue isn't with the receiver? If not, I'd go buy a cheap set of high rings and remount the scope. If the problem is solved you know there's no issue with your receiver (which is the only terrible scenario) and you'll be able to play with your rifle. If the problem is still there, then you know your problem lies in the scope.

I never really understood whether you ran out of elevation adjustment, windage adjustment or both? Running out of windage would concern me worse than elevation only because with that particular scope maybe there's not a lot of elevation adjustment in the first place and the 20moa mount may have eaten up a lot of what was available. You should NEVER run out of windage adjustment on a simple zero. That problem implies a MAJOR issue with one component or another. If you were closer I'd invite you to come over we could try some different scopes and mounts to isolate your problem


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I ran out of both. I remounted the scope from the original mount from the gun shop and had the same result. The scope came off another 300 win bolt action I put a VX6 on. I had a Night Force NXS as a spare but a few months ago, I decided it was stupid to have that sitting in the safe and moved some scopes around to make the Nikon my spare.


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Old 09-28-2017, 10:51 PM   #19
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Default Need help trouble shooting a scope on an AR

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Originally Posted by Horitexan View Post
That's a great point! I didn't think about that. I just checked the Falcor website and they didn't mention a built in 20moa but that doesn't mean it isn't. If I were them I'd probably build it in on a 300wm. I'll be curious to hear from the OP.


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If I have time tomorrow I'll call Falkor and ask them.



The problem I have is the lack of outside shooting ranges in and around Baton Rouge. I was a member at one that was about 30 minutes away and it shut down. There is Nicks but it's about and hr away along with Sherburn Range down a long gravel road that's about 1 hr to an 1.5 away. My old range that shut down is reopening a range about 30 minutes from my house but won't open for another 2 months.

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Old 09-28-2017, 11:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Ice View Post
I ran out of both. I remounted the scope from the original mount from the gun shop and had the same result. The scope came off another 300 win bolt action I put a VX6 on. I had a Night Force NXS as a spare but a few months ago, I decided it was stupid to have that sitting in the safe and moved some scopes around to make the Nikon my spare.


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Ok. Then, I'm thinking the issue HAS to be either the scope or the upper receiver. Unless there's something majorly wrong with the rifle, which I doubt.

Wish you were closer. Good luck and let us know what you end up figuring out! Sorry for your hassles - I'd be plenty upset.


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Old 09-29-2017, 12:39 PM   #21
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Default Need help trouble shooting a scope on an AR

It's actually a m-223xr with 20 moa.


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Old 09-29-2017, 01:14 PM   #22
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It's actually a m-223xr with 20 moa.


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Is the mount that was designed for a .223 flexing under the recoil of a .300 WM?
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:53 PM   #23
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The mount would be fine for a .300 Win.mag. I doubt that your upper has 20MOA built in to it? Many years ago I had an issue just like you are having with a .223 from a major manuf.. I sent it back to them, they said it was fixed and the piece of tape I put over the end of the barrel was still intact even though they said it shot great for them. Needless to say it was returned for refund. A new mount might be worth a try or just sending everything back and seeing what the manuf. can figure out.
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