A letter to my pro gun friends

[donpablo]

National vs Local

I know that this is a national problem but I don't think there's a feasible national solution. I think the solution has to be local. Now I know I'm gonna catch flack for this but I think a local surveillance task force is warranted. Monitor and track any/all online red flags so that if/when you come across someone with a track record like the one this last shooter had you can put him under heavy surveillance. Such a task force could with the intent to be ready when these psycho's snaps. I know no one wants to be spied on but what's stopping the authorities (or even a skilled hacker) from doing so now?

[skipetex]

These are not useful contributions to a(ny) discussion, and are exactly the type of comments that we are trying to prevent on this forum. If you can't offer an intelligent response to the discussion, please find another place to hang out.

Did I miss it in the thread? I read through and have not seen those two quotes. IDK

[Artos]

Did I miss it in the thread? I read through and have not seen those two quotes. IDK

The boss removed them to help keep it civil...also why he didn't quote who posted them. It's a thread warning shot across the bow.

[Let's go Brandon!]

I have yet to have a discussion with an "anti" who could coherently or other articulate what exactly they mean by "gun control". Most will never come right out and express what they really want which is the complete ban and confiscation of any & every 'evil', mass killing machine fire arm in the country (to include police officer's weapons).

Trust me, I would love to "discuss" this with them, but to be honest, like most absolute, divisive topics, this is particularly one we will never get them to back off on... and I will never be for implementing the types of "common sense gun CONTROL" measure they are foaming at the mouth about.

Many of these same people who punctuate their morally superior righteousness with lines like "if it will save just one child..." will spit in your face at the next pro-life rally.

[donpablo]

Agreement

I have yet to have a discussion with an "anti" who could coherently or other articulate what exactly they mean by "gun control". Most will never come right out and express what they really want which is the complete ban and confiscation of any & every 'evil', mass killing machine fire arm in the country (to include police officer's weapons).

Trust me, I would love to "discuss" this with them, but to be honest, like most absolute, divisive topics, this is particularly one we will never get them to back off on... and I will never be for implementing the types of "common sense gun CONTROL" measure they are foaming at the mouth about.

Many of these same people who punctuate their morally superior righteousness with lines like "if it will save just one child..." will spit in your face at the next pro-life rally.

What I try doing to get through to them is to act like I agree with them (of course the ones I talk to are usually HS students and their minds aren't as set in stone). But then I go on to suggest that firearms aren't the biggest part of the problem and that it's our culture of violence. I suggest that gun control is useless if they're not going to censor the media. They'll need to get rid of violence in movies, video games, etc. Also they'll have to censor what info can and can't be disseminated by the media (news channels and newspapers) so as to rob the shooters of their 15 minutes. Finally they'll need to censor the internet because if we were to ever actually succeed in getting guns out of these psychopaths' hands they'll simply do online research to learn how to make bombs.

They won't really think about what they're suggesting until they consider the idea of giving up some of the freedoms they enjoy for this, "safety."

[Russ81]

I saw a meme (Yes I know not the best invention of our time) but I liked the idea it stated.

Hire three ex-military that are unemployed or retired LEO’s to guard schools. Only thing I’d add is they just GUARD, no policing the youth and all their stupidity. They have campus cops for that. I think it’d kill two birds with one stone and several gun control proponents I know even liked it since the big scary guns aren’t near the students but readily available


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[batmaninja]

Take the same line of thinking and apply it to drunk driving deaths. Taxing sober drivers won't really deter the drunks from driving. Prohibition didn't even stop drunk driving. It didn't even stop drinking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Russ79]

I can already hear the "ban the AR's" drumbeat and all that will do is drive the price up, not make anyone safer. That ban the gun genie is out of the bottle- there are 300 million guns in America. I have never seen a gun walk itself into any situation and start going off- this is a people problem. Does anyone think that a competent person with a .45 auto or 9mm with several magazines can't inflict similar type casualties? Trucks and vans have been used as murder weapons, even in this country, but nobody has called for their ban. Machetes are use by the MS13 gang members and yet we protect their rights as illegals "looking for a new life". Liberals scream about stricter gun control while they ignore the carnage going on the liberal, Democrat run cities with the stiffest gun laws in the country. My heart goes out to the families that lost loved ones but problems are never solved when emotions are still raw.

[RiverRat1]

I know that this is a national problem but I don't think there's a feasible national solution. I think the solution has to be local. Now I know I'm gonna catch flack for this but I think a local surveillance task force is warranted. Monitor and track any/all online red flags so that if/when you come across someone with a track record like the one this last shooter had you can put him under heavy surveillance. Such a task force could with the intent to be ready when these psycho's snaps. I know no one wants to be spied on but what's stopping the authorities (or even a skilled hacker) from doing so now?

Spend the same money but track repeat drunk drivers. Or repeat meth/drug heads and you will save a lot more lives. Or follow around people released from prison for violent crimes. Google those stats.

This whole thing is emotional so people act irrational.

[BTLowry]

Stop throwing money at problems and start putting bullets in people's heads for doing **** like this and it will stop

Also nip the **** coverage of this crap that gives the shooter the attention they want

That would be a better place to start

[Charles]

To my pro gun friends

First, I am as pro second amendment as they come, have been all my life. I do not want to see guns banned. Period
But, us making points to other pro gun people is like a Preacher trying to convince the congregation that there is a God. Those people in those pews already believe there is a God, so most of the sermon is wasted repetition.

What we need to do as pro-gun folks, is something different than preaching to pro gun folks. That is the point I have been trying to make recently. Unfortunately, when you try to talk to pro-gun folks about finding a solution to our kids dying in school shootings, all they want to hear is GUN CONTROL! GUN CONTROL! GUN CONTROL! That is not what I have been saying, but that is all some have been hearing.

What we need to do as law-abiding gun owners, is be part of the solution. Use logic and act to protect our kids and citizens first, and our guns second. By refusing to hear, or offer viable suggestions or solutions to the problem of school safety for instance, I feel we are sealing the fate and setting the scene for more gun control.

There are far better ways to protect our kids, as we all know banning certain types of weapons will not accomplish the goal, which is Protecting Our Kids so they are Safe at School.

We must be the voice of reason, and not the voice of fear.

I suggest we demand from our legislators, that every school have armed guards Already in place . Entrance and exit points should have metal detectors along with the armed guards. Entrance and exit ways should be minimized Already in place. Our schools must be fenced to make access more difficult Not fenced but only two ways into the parking lot that are monitored. Security cameras must be mandatory and functional at all times Already in place. Every teacher should be trained extensively in how to deal with active shooter situations Already in place . Drills should be held maybe even daily until every one on the school campus knows exactly how to respond and what to do in the event of an emergency Locked down exercise are practiced multiple times a year. I also suggest we remove our kids from school until the schools are made safe to attend. I would also mention when we have a National Emergency, and I consider this to be one, National Guard members are activated. I think Guard members should be posted at every school in America that cannot immediately post hired armed guards.

The only thing required to accomplish this is money. So how are we going to pay for the added security for our children? Is there anyone, any lawful gun owner who would not pay to try to prevent another kid from losing his or her life in our public schools? I propose a School Tax on gun, gun accessory, and ammo sales. We want to keep our guns. I am more than willing to pay a tax on firearms and ammo to go toward making our schools secure and protecting our kids. I would support a 5%, or even a 10% School Tax on the above items for securing our schools.

By refusing to talk logically, and not trying to come up with ways to accomplish the goal of keeping people safe, we are marginalizing our position. Public opinion is turning. We don't want to be viewed as the opposition, or as part of the problem. We must be viewed as helping to achieve a solution to be successful in keeping our rights.

The red is just FYI.

I agree with the spirit of your message.

[ArmyAg97]

This idea isn’t half bad. I think the govt could screw this up royally, but this is probably the best idea I’ve seen so far.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/gun-control-republicans-consider-grvo/

There isn’t one thing that will fix it. I think the culture in general is a large contributing factor.

[ArmyAg97]

Stop throwing money at problems and start putting bullets in people's heads for doing **** like this and it will stop

Also nip the **** coverage of this crap that gives the shooter the attention they want

That would be a better place to start

I like this too. I think there’re should be a televised execution of the Cruz kid.

[TeamAmerica]

We can tax anything and spend money on anything but we seem to have a threshold about what is reasonable. We could spend a trillion dollars and make driving safer, but each day it is probably the most dangerous thing we do from a statistical view, yet we accept the rate of fatality with the freedom.

I wish I had a solution to propose. It's very frustrating. I believe the issue is parenting and specifically parenting boys. Girls are not out there shooting places up and filling up prisons. We have to overcome some genetics and emotional hard wiring and do it by raising these boys in a loving environment. It takes a village to raise a kid and that means parents, teachers, pastors, employers, coaches. Anyone who can positively impact someone's self worth has to do a part. How to accomplish that in this country is a nearly impossible task.

[cuttingedge]

We can tax anything and spend money on anything but we seem to have a threshold about what is reasonable. We could spend a trillion dollars and make driving safer, but each day it is probably the most dangerous thing we do from a statistical view, yet we accept the rate of fatality with the freedom.

I wish I had a solution to propose. It's very frustrating. I believe the issue is parenting and specifically parenting boys. Girls are not out there shooting places up and filling up prisons. We have to overcome some genetics and emotional hard wiring and do it by raising these boys in a loving environment. It takes a village to raise a kid and that means parents, teachers, pastors, employers, coaches. Anyone who can positively impact someone's self worth has to do a part. How to accomplish that in this country is a nearly impossible task.

Actually, one of the first school shooters was a girl, and there have been other girl shooters as well.

This post and it's replies so far is just an extremely small example of why things are the way they are, and why it is so difficult to initiate any kind of beneficial change.

See, the issue as I see it, the absolute most important thing is,

HOW DO WE PROTECT OUR CHILDREN?

As group of folks who are somewhat like-minded, we cannot focus on the problem without tearing each other down or pointing to the 9000 other factors, such as morals, and raising kids, religion... things that we have ZERO control over.

I reckon in the coming days, weeks, months, the anti-gun lobby, students, parents will have a common focus and common goal. And you know what else they will have? Big Money behind them.

As long as we, the folks that want to keep our gun rights, can do nothing better than tell each other we are dumb, sit on our laurels, and offer nothing to help fix the problem otherwise, we shouldn't be surprised when the legislation starts passing to help free us of our rights.