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    #46
    Artos, I agree with most of your points. We need to fix entitlements for sure. We also need to enforce immigration laws. Doing both would correct most of the problems. Doing either one would correct a lot of the problems.

    I guess I just hate the argument that Americans won't do whatever job. Americans will do any job that illegals will do. They just won't do it for the same wages an illegal will do them for. There is a price where each one of us will scrub out porta pottys. For some it may be $20 an hour. For others it may be $2,000 an hour before you would do it. But there is a point where everyone able, would do it. My point is that illegal workers "artificially" bring labor wages to a point that they would not be naturally.

    Now getting rid of illegals would will definitely cause the cost of labor to increase. Some will argue that this will destroy the economy. I would argue that higher wages to Americans will keep that money in the American economy. Where right now, a good deal of the labor dollars go back to the illegals' country of origin.

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      #47
      Originally posted by LWC View Post
      OK, but what if illegals weren't here to do the jobs? Would the wages be the same for the next man up? Or would employers have to pay more to get an American to do whatever manual labor job?
      Same. The market itself determines wages. At least in my field it does.

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by LWC View Post
        Artos, I agree with most of your points. We need to fix entitlements for sure. We also need to enforce immigration laws. Doing both would correct most of the problems. Doing either one would correct a lot of the problems.

        I guess I just hate the argument that Americans won't do whatever job. Americans will do any job that illegals will do. They just won't do it for the same wages an illegal will do them for. There is a price where each one of us will scrub out porta pottys. For some it may be $20 an hour. For others it may be $2,000 an hour before you would do it. But there is a point where everyone able, would do it. My point is that illegal workers "artificially" bring labor wages to a point that they would not be naturally.

        Now getting rid of illegals would will definitely cause the cost of labor to increase. Some will argue that this will destroy the economy. I would argue that higher wages to Americans will keep that money in the American economy. Where right now, a good deal of the labor dollars go back to the illegals' country of origin.
        Once again, do you know what Davis Bacon is? Why you have in your head that illegals artificially bring down wages, I have no clue. Markets themselves will determine what wages can stand.........unless of course you're Bernie, then every high school kid at McDonalds should make $15 an hour. See how that works? Is that what this is all about? Are you a secret Socialist?

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          #49
          Originally posted by Ironman View Post
          Same. The market itself determines wages. At least in my field it does.
          I agree that the market determines the wages. Maybe you will admit that a market with 15,000,000 or so illegal workers is a lot different market than one with 0 illegal workers.

          There would be less supply of workers and close to the same demand for labor. What happens then?

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            #50
            Originally posted by LWC View Post
            I agree that the market determines the wages. Maybe you will admit that a market with 15,000,000 or so illegal workers is a lot different market than one with 0 illegal workers.

            There would be less supply of workers and close to the same demand for labor. What happens then?
            Keep on with your hypotheticals. It changes nothing.

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              #51
              Originally posted by Ironman View Post
              Once again, do you know what Davis Bacon is? Why you have in your head that illegals artificially bring down wages, I have no clue. Markets themselves will determine what wages can stand.........unless of course you're Bernie, then every high school kid at McDonalds should make $15 an hour. See how that works? Is that what this is all about? Are you a secret Socialist?
              Is this your leader that your keep referring to? I'm sorry but I don't share his political beliefs. Maybe you and Oprah do. But I'm for Americans first.

              David Bacon Biography
              Title: Co-chair of the Northern California Coalition for Immigrant Rights
              Position: Pro to the question "Should the Government Allow Immigrants Who Are Here Illegally to Become US Citizens?"
              Reasoning:
              "We need to create a human community in this country in which people do not have to live in fear, and are not subject to discrimination. What undermines the integrity of our country's immigration laws is their use to keep millions of people in a state of vulnerability and illegality... Our laws should start with the intention of protecting the human rights of migrants... We need a new amnesty to guarantee basic human and labor rights to the people who live in this country, both now and in the future."

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                #52
                Originally posted by LWC View Post
                Is this your leader that your keep referring to? I'm sorry but I don't share his political beliefs. Maybe you and Oprah do. But I'm for Americans first.

                David Bacon Biography
                Title: Co-chair of the Northern California Coalition for Immigrant Rights
                Position: Pro to the question "Should the Government Allow Immigrants Who Are Here Illegally to Become US Citizens?"
                Reasoning:
                "We need to create a human community in this country in which people do not have to live in fear, and are not subject to discrimination. What undermines the integrity of our country's immigration laws is their use to keep millions of people in a state of vulnerability and illegality... Our laws should start with the intention of protecting the human rights of migrants... We need a new amnesty to guarantee basic human and labor rights to the people who live in this country, both now and in the future."
                Lol! No dude! Davis Bacon wage rates. In other words, on projects that have public money involved, Davis Bacon wages are SET AMOUNTS TO BE PAID to workers. It's broken down by trades. In other words, your "assumption" that workers get paid less is total BS. Not only are wages set, certified payroll must be kept and submitted weekly. Again, your ignorance on this subject is amazing.

                Tell Bernie hi for me.

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                  #53
                  Ironman, my prior post is a joke. Hope you take it that way. On a lighter note, I know we probably agree on more than we don't. What are your plans for a western hunt this year? Elk, Mule Deer, Antelope? Where you headed?
                  Thinking I'm going to try and burn some points and hunt elk in WY this year.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by LWC View Post
                    Ironman, my prior post is a joke. Hope you take it that way. On a lighter note, I know we probably agree on more than we don't. What are your plans for a western hunt this year? Elk, Mule Deer, Antelope? Where you headed?
                    Thinking I'm going to try and burn some points and hunt elk in WY this year.
                    Ah! Well then, I always hunt elk in Colorado. I need to start putting in for mule deer, as I have seen some absolute monsters on my property in the Sangre de Cristos mountains. Every year I'm there, I run across a giant muley and say to myself, why in the hell didn't I put in for mule deer. You see, when I lived there, it wasn't draw only for deer. I seem to forget that in April, when the application is due.

                    Southwestern WY has some nice elk. Good luck!

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by Ironman View Post
                      Ah! Well then, I always hunt elk in Colorado. I need to start putting in for mule deer, as I have seen some absolute monsters on my property in the Sangre de Cristos mountains. Every year I'm there, I run across a giant muley and say to myself, why in the hell didn't I put in for mule deer. You see, when I lived there, it wasn't draw only for deer. I seem to forget that in April, when the application is due.

                      Southwestern WY has some nice elk. Good luck!
                      Good luck to you too. I'm actually looking at Southeastern WY for this trip. I don't have quite enough preference points for the other side of the state.

                      Enough of this mushy stuff. Now go ahead and get back to telling me how the Laws of supply and demand don't apply to illegal workers

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by lwc View Post
                        good luck to you too. I'm actually looking at southeastern wy for this trip. I don't have quite enough preference points for the other side of the state.

                        Enough of this mushy stuff. Now go ahead and get back to telling me how the laws of supply and demand don't apply to illegal workers :d:d:d
                        :d:d:d

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by Ironman View Post
                          Same. The market itself determines wages. At least in my field it does.


                          Actually most of the illegals made more than the legal citizens that I dealt with. They earned it though because they were just better. I’m not talking about a small sample size either. I dealt with this stuff for over a decade.


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by RMW View Post
                            90% of the illegals are paying taxes now. They have fake SS numbers that they give to their employers. The government loves them.


                            How many W4s have you seen that they fill out?

                            Most of them file the most dependents that they can to lower their tax burden while causing all kinds of hell for the person that legitimately owns the SS# that they stole/bought.


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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                              #59
                              Originally posted by MBV77 View Post
                              If I had a $1 for every time I’ve heard the 20 something year old white boy say, “I ain’t doing that! That’s a a Mexican’s job.”, I’d have a lot of dollars. I was self employed in the oilfield for several years and worked with crews from other service companies. Nobody wanted the legal 4 man white boy crew showing up. Send that 4 man illegal Mexican crew. That’s when sh*t got done. Quickly, efficiently, and the quality of work was always better. Right or wrong, that’s just the truth.


                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


                              If someone said that to me I’d fire them on the spot.


                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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                                #60
                                Originally posted by Mike D View Post
                                If someone said that to me I’d fire them on the spot.


                                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
                                How many people do you employ? How long have you been an employeer?

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