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Old 10-16-2020, 04:33 PM   #1
ken800
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Default Lots of these 8 pointers on the property... Genetics?

I have some of these sized guys walking around. All are 8 pointers with big, thick bodies. I'm guessing this is well into mature but maybe, what, 130-140?

Perhaps many of these are the same genetic pool? I'm surrounded by cattle operations to the north, west, and south and a 1600+ of wooded area+cattle on my east side. Just trying to figure out how none of them have broken out of the 8-point mold. I've seen one 11 and one 12 in the past year but not yet this year.
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Last edited by ken800; 10-16-2020 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 10-16-2020, 08:33 PM   #2
toledo
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Seems to happen genetically. I have two properties only a couple miles apart. One has almost all 8s and one has almost none.
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Old 10-16-2020, 08:34 PM   #3
kkp005
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Dang that dude is a fatty
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Old 10-16-2020, 08:35 PM   #4
ken800
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Originally Posted by toledo View Post
Seems to happen genetically. I have two properties only a couple miles apart. One has almost all 8s and one has almost none.
On your none are they 9+ or lesser than 8?
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Old 10-16-2020, 08:47 PM   #5
Larryf250
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Per dr James Kroll studies show all mature whitetail bucks want to be an 8 pt.
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Old 10-16-2020, 08:52 PM   #6
BLee15
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I got only 8s on my place also this year. Not sure what the deal is. We haven’t killed a decent deer in awhile and I’ve passed real nice 8s the past 4 years hoping to get a 10 or a really nice wide 8 but it seems like everything is a basket racket 8 every year
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Old 10-16-2020, 10:18 PM   #7
Tatom
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If you let mature 8s walk and breed expect to see more and more 8s. High fences don’t breed 8s and expect to get big monsters by letting them mature. They’ll end up being 8s like the generations before. You’ve got to let the 10pt plus deer walk, kill all the 8s you can.
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Old 10-16-2020, 10:35 PM   #8
Draco
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We've had a hard year this year for horns in a lot of places. We had multiple tens last year and none this year. The same at my other place, lot of tens and 3 elevens and a thirteen point. Nothing bigger than a nine this year.
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Old 10-16-2020, 10:44 PM   #9
Burnadell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatom View Post
If you let mature 8s walk and breed expect to see more and more 8s. High fences donít breed 8s and expect to get big monsters by letting them mature. Theyíll end up being 8s like the generations before. Youíve got to let the 10pt plus deer walk, kill all the 8s you can.
This is what we do on my friend's ranch that I hunt.
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Old 10-16-2020, 10:50 PM   #10
Pistol
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I've heard it said that an 8 point on a high fence is is known to kill a bigger deer because his smaller rack can get to it. I've also been told 8 points over 3 years old are considered culls for that reason. Wiser folks here - is that true?
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Old 10-16-2020, 11:11 PM   #11
ken800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larryf250 View Post
Per dr James Kroll studies show all mature whitetail bucks want to be an 8 pt.
Interesting. I've never really paid a lot of attention to his work but this post prompted me. Dang what an amazing guy... Lifetime of studying whitetails...
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Old 10-16-2020, 11:18 PM   #12
Mexico
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatom View Post
If you let mature 8s walk and breed expect to see more and more 8s. High fences donít breed 8s and expect to get big monsters by letting them mature. Theyíll end up being 8s like the generations before. Youíve got to let the 10pt plus deer walk, kill all the 8s you can.
If it was just this easy there wouldn't be an 8 point in Texas...
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Old 10-16-2020, 11:20 PM   #13
Mexico
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistol View Post
I've heard it said that an 8 point on a high fence is is known to kill a bigger deer because his smaller rack can get to it. I've also been told 8 points over 3 years old are considered culls for that reason. Wiser folks here - is that true?
Absolutely not. Never seen 8's kill deer more than any other deer has killed deer.
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Old 10-16-2020, 11:27 PM   #14
HighwayHunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistol View Post
I've heard it said that an 8 point on a high fence is is known to kill a bigger deer because his smaller rack can get to it. I've also been told 8 points over 3 years old are considered culls for that reason. Wiser folks here - is that true?

Idk about them killing older deer, but the HF places Iíve been too (not many) shoot 4 yr old 8 points on sight.


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Old 10-17-2020, 05:17 AM   #15
lovemylegacy
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That buck is obese
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Old 10-17-2020, 06:31 AM   #16
TheHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatom View Post
If you let mature 8s walk and breed expect to see more and more 8s. High fences don’t breed 8s and expect to get big monsters by letting them mature. They’ll end up being 8s like the generations before. You’ve got to let the 10pt plus deer walk, kill all the 8s you can.
IMO, Almost impossible to alter genetics this late in the game. Ok to pick a 8 to take off the feed bill, but killing 8s to alter there being no more 8s just isn’t feasible. The trait to imbedded deeper than just the 8-10 years a deer lives and breeds.

I try to let all deer get 4+ you never know what a potentially big 8 will throw extra.
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Old 10-17-2020, 06:37 AM   #17
JVasquez
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Originally Posted by TheHammer View Post
IMO, Almost impossible to alter genetics this late in the game. Ok to pick a 8 to take off the feed bill, but killing 8s to alter there being no more 8s just isnít feasible. The trait to imbedded deeper than just the 8-10 years a deer lives and breeds.

I try to let all deer get 4+ you never know what a potentially big 8 will throw extra.
I agree. I let them go to 5+ and have seen two 3 yr old 8ís go from 110Ē to 130-140Ē at 5/6 yr olds. Low fence.
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Old 10-17-2020, 08:15 AM   #18
Abcdj
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Each place has their own horn gene traights. Not much you can do about it. Who enjoys killing or has enough tags unless mld, to shoot 10 bucks every trip out. At our place that's what we would have to do.
We have 3 bad straights at our place.
1. Short G 2s
2. 9 points
3. I call them 2 inch 10 points. The G 4s are an inch long.

There is lots of time wasted talking about "that 8 point has to go". To much trouble.
Just enjoy having bucks to look at. Many folks don't.
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Old 10-17-2020, 08:56 AM   #19
PYBUCK
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That deer is mature and needs to be shot. No where near 140, High teens-120 max.
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Old 10-17-2020, 04:55 PM   #20
toledo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken800 View Post
On your none are they 9+ or lesser than 8?
9+. Lots of 10s. Our two biggest bucks have been 12s. The other place is just wrapped up with mediocre 8s. Youd think they were a hundred miles apart.
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Old 10-17-2020, 05:29 PM   #21
Playa
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We have similar genetics, but worse is the big 6ís and even big 4ís that roam

How would you like to have several generations of those guy running around?
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Old 10-17-2020, 07:57 PM   #22
Daddypants
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That buck is so fat, I would be more worried he would be passing along diabetes rather than eight points! Lol.
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Old 10-17-2020, 08:10 PM   #23
trophy8
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Start killing mature non desirable bucks and more deer will move in. Less mouths on the feed means healthier deer.

Killing as many 6-8 point bucks as you can and letting new deer move in WILL change genetics.

Last edited by trophy8; 10-17-2020 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 10-17-2020, 08:56 PM   #24
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That buck is so fat, I would be more worried he would be passing along diabetes rather than eight points! Lol.
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Old 10-18-2020, 05:07 AM   #25
Slicefixer
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Originally Posted by Larryf250 View Post
Per dr James Kroll studies show all mature whitetail bucks want to be an 8 pt.
Dead on....and well below 140"

I've read all of his books, several of his papers, and attended a speech many years back. I HIGHLY recommend studying his work (as well as MS State, TTech, etc) if you'd like to gain a much better understanding of whitetail deer.
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Old 10-18-2020, 07:58 AM   #26
Throwin Darts
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On a low fence place you cannot change the genetic makeup of the herd with a bow or rifle.

If you want to kill 8s, kill 8s but donít fool yourself that youíve changed anything genetically.

If you want bigger deer, more age and better nutrition is the answer.
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Old 10-18-2020, 08:26 AM   #27
JVasquez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwin Darts View Post
On a low fence place you cannot change the genetic makeup of the herd with a bow or rifle.

If you want to kill 8s, kill 8s but donít fool yourself that youíve changed anything genetically.

If you want bigger deer, more age and better nutrition is the answer.
Yep
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:03 AM   #28
Mexico
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwin Darts View Post
On a low fence place you cannot change the genetic makeup of the herd with a bow or rifle.

If you want to kill 8s, kill 8s but donít fool yourself that youíve changed anything genetically.

If you want bigger deer, more age and better nutrition is the answer.
And there you have it. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Blows me away when hunters misinform others with anything but this, when they have absolutely zero statistics and studies backing their claims, and the culling aspect of a LF environment has been debunked over and over agian by many many biologist and universities.
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:08 AM   #29
steve morton
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Whaa, whaa, whaa.
Target rich environment!
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:15 AM   #30
Tommyh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Playa View Post
We have similar genetics, but worse is the big 6ís and even big 4ís that roam

How would you like to have several generations of those guy running around?
Attachment 1023757
As a cull hunter, i absolutely love it 😬🤣🤣
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Old 10-18-2020, 05:46 PM   #31
Daddypants
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You know, one way to look at it is this ain’t a bad “problem” to have. Back in the 80s and 90s, if anyone had said “Man, our lease has just too many eight points” everyone would look at you like you were crazy. Heck, if you said that in East Texas that “problem” would be “solved” in one night with a spotlight and a .22. Lol.

I ain’t an expert but I think the guys saying to put out a bunch of protein and take out the ones that are old are on the right track.
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Old 10-18-2020, 05:53 PM   #32
rtp
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First thing I would ask is......what is your buck to doe ratio? And regarding the op, that deer isnt close to 130 or 140. He is mature and if your buck to doe ration is in order, he should go.
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