Colorado’s new points fee changes.

[DavidH44]

3 before you can apply


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Just curious, do you put in for sheep in Utah and if so, do you think you’ll ever draw it? I have 4 points and was wondering if it’ll ever happen

[scoutman]

I think the reason "us locals" get irritated is because of the large increase of nonresidence hunters in OTC units. Some of this is changing, but as of recently archery isn't tracked like rifle hunts/tags. When the number of OTC archery tags have over doubled over the last 10 years, something has to be addressed. I would bet OTC tags for nonresident will slowly be a thing of the past, once someone actually crunches the numbers at a state level.



I don't mind out of staters, shoot I bring guys out every year. My problem is mostly just related to pressure and the effect of the overall hunting experience.

If I go elk hunting I enjoy bugling elk, not glassing elk and hunting them like muleys. I do get enjoyment out of bugling above a camp with guys that slept in and are totally burnt out, and watch them run around trying to get all their crap together (I do get bored when the elk are silent).



Some of you guys are confusing access to federal lands and hunting limited draw areas, which are apples and oranges. You put in to hunt draw areas to deal with less pressure and a better age structure and seeing bigger animals.



I've lived in Colorado since 2005, moved out here for no other reason than the hunting. In that time the hunting has completely changed, so much so that we are considering moving back to the midwest/ maybe Texas to have some land and hunt whitetails. Then just put in for the western states accordingly to get decent tags every other year.



The few comments on the fed lands transferring over to the states is ludicrous!

One good fire season out here and the lands would be sold. Shoot Boulder County isn't even caught up from the dang flood in 2012.

Great post! Been hunting out there since 05, when I lived in Ga, our rules and regulations brochure had a page ad that state of Colorado took out urging hunters to come out, still do. Revenue generating trumps game management everytime. Maybe they will increase fees on the other recreational users so they can generate income elsewhere as well.

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[JTeLarkin08]

Colorado’s new points fee changes.

Just curious, do you put in for sheep in Utah and if so, do you think you’ll ever draw it? I have 4 points and was wondering if it’ll ever happen

I doubt I will ever draw a sheep tag there. That said I apply for everything else there so might as well keep putting in for sheep


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[easeup]

back to the original point of consideration - "I think this is going to price out a lot of non residents"......... I am thinking not much. The guys that put in for those high end big game hunts have the $ resources to pay for tags that are over $2K each if they were successful anyway. Those same hunters are prepared to also drop $5k or more for the outfitter to help them out.

the speculation of the draw impacts kind of reminds of the discussions we had many years ago when sports salaries and ticket prices sky rocketed up to where the average Joe said he couldn't afford to go.

[mhunter6]

I have a hunch that in 10 years or so that the application fees and any nonrefundable costs associated with nonresident big game hunting will cause so much less demand that the fear of point creep and the unlikely odds of drawing a tag will keep so many people from even applying that, for those who still pay into the system, will likely have a much greater chance at some of these elite tags.

[jragusa2]

$427 sounds like a reasonable price

[JTeLarkin08]

back to the original point of consideration - "I think this is going to price out a lot of non residents"......... I am thinking not much. The guys that put in for those high end big game hunts have the $ resources to pay for tags that are over $2K each if they were successful anyway. Those same hunters are prepared to also drop $5k or more for the outfitter to help them out.



the speculation of the draw impacts kind of reminds of the discussions we had many years ago when sports salaries and ticket prices sky rocketed up to where the average Joe said he couldn't afford to go.

Let’s be honest $2,000 is not a lot of money if you want something. Most everyone can cut out something here or there or sell something and raise $2000. And I don’t agree with most of the people who apply for sheep paying a guide. If I draw a sheep tag I will go diy. That said back when you had to front the money it didn’t really cost much to apply. Like $13. There is a big difference between paying $39 and $381 to apply for the same 3 species. I’m not saying drawing a sheep tag will ever be easy. But I definitely think application numbers will be below the 2017 mark.


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[Shane]

Shane, I agree with you on most all things political. But I strongly disagree with you and Ted Cruz on the federal public lands. That is about the only things that the feds do right. They keep public lands public. It is a fact that when states are given control of public lands, it is almost always sold off and no longer public. I understand that you don't have a huge issue with this. Most people from our state and states without much public lands feel the same. We don't know what we are missing. But ol Teddy had some great foresight starting the National Forest Service. Anybody in the world can go enjoy these undisturbed (for the most part) public lands. They can hike, bike, camp, fish, hunt (season permitting) millions of acres of pristine land....that looks pretty much like it did 200 years ago. If it was private land, it wouldn't take too many generations to see condos, strip malls, and Mickey D's all throughout OUR public lands. I don't know how ANYONE could see that as a good thing. And for what? A one time small (relatively)boost to the state coffers? Which will be wasted and under utilized like all the other tax revenue that they receive. I want my great great grand kids to be able to go see the beautiful mountains and hunt and fish if they so choose. I'd hate to see all that ruined for what would likely amount to some type of pipe dream like our TX lottery revenue. That ends up in the pockets of some connected rich cronies and makes them richer.

I have been on 4 western hunts to date and will be on at least one each year until I either kick or am in too poor health to go. It only takes 20+ years if you want to hunt the big 3 (sheep, goats, moose) or if you want to hunt the very "best" units in the state. I started putting in for points in 3 states about 4 years ago. I have enough points to go on at least one quality antelope, mule deer, or elk hunt every year, and I will for the foreseeable future.

How would you feel about the feds putting conservation easements and other deed restrictions on the land before giving it to the states, to ensure that it would never be developed?

I'd be in favor of that. I'd also be in favor of a federal hunt permitting system giving equal access to all taxpayers on federal lands. Whichever way it goes, the folks paying for it should all get equal access to the hunting too, not just bird watching and hiking - in my opinion.

Anyway, I won't lose any sleep over any of it either way. Sorry for hijacking your thread, JT! Maybe I contributed to somebody else giving up on the unfair draw system and helped you out though.

[JTeLarkin08]

How would you feel about the feds putting conservation easements and other deed restrictions on the land before giving it to the states, to ensure that it would never be developed?



I'd be in favor of that. I'd also be in favor of a federal hunt permitting system giving equal access to all taxpayers on federal lands. Whichever way it goes, the folks paying for it should all get equal access to the hunting too, not just bird watching and hiking.

You can’t give out hunting permits equally to all tax payers. There would be no more animals lol. Hunting is like everything else in the world. Money is going to get you more opportunity. Landowners tags, auction tags etc. However what’s great about our current system is everyone can apply in the draws. It’s a pretty **** good system.


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[Shane]

You can’t give out hunting permits equally to all tax payers. There would be no more animals lol. Hunting is like everything else in the world. Money is going to get you more opportunity. Landowners tags, auction tags etc. However what’s great about our current system is everyone can apply in the draws. It’s a pretty **** good system.


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Oh, I know. That wasn't what I intended to imply. I don't think every taxpayer should get a permit. I just think we should all have an equal chance in the draw, rather than giving 90% of the tags to residents of 1 state while the other 49 states are paying the vast majority of the bills.

[JTeLarkin08]

Oh, I know. That wasn't what I intended to imply. I don't think every taxpayer should get a permit. I just think we should all have an equal chance in the draw, rather than giving 90% of the tags to residents of 1 state while the other 49 states are paying the vast majority of the bills.

I got ya. I am ok with the way it is. I will play the draw every year and hope I’m lucky enough to draw a sheep tag one day. If I do great. If I don’t I’ll go kill one in Alaska or NWT


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[LWC]

How would you feel about the feds putting conservation easements and other deed restrictions on the land before giving it to the states, to ensure that it would never be developed?

I'd be in favor of that. I'd also be in favor of a federal hunt permitting system giving equal access to all taxpayers on federal lands. Whichever way it goes, the folks paying for it should all get equal access to the hunting too, not just bird watching and hiking - in my opinion.

Anyway, I won't lose any sleep over any of it either way. Sorry for hijacking your thread, JT! Maybe I contributed to somebody else giving up on the unfair draw system and helped you out though.

I'd like it better putting deed restrictions on the land before giving it to the states. But then, what for? The states would not want to take on the burden of the lands if they weren't free to exploit them for $$$.

I'm all for having more access to tags, but that isn't how the system is set up. The states have the responsibility to manage the state's wildlife. Not the fed's wildlife. I'm a NR in 49 states. The one I live in has about the worst public land situation of all of them. So I'll pay the going rate to hunt out west. There is obviously a lot more demand for tags than there is supply because tags seem to go up every year and the number of applicants keeps going up.

I guess I'm a little conflicted though. Lowering tag prices would help for future hunter recruitment that we will need to keep hunting going for future generations. But that would put more pressure on the resource and make chances of drawing tags go down. I guess we are our own worst enemy. Kinda ****ed if you do and ****ed if you don't.

[ladrones]

The need to make it five times the price. Plus turn all the management of the public lands over to the tribes.

[DavidH44]

I doubt I will ever draw a sheep tag there. That said I apply for everything else there so might as well keep putting in for sheep


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Do you apply for the archery or gun hunt for sheep in Colorado? Is archery easier to draw?

[JTeLarkin08]

Do you apply for the archery or gun hunt for sheep in Colorado? Is archery easier to draw?

I apply for Archery. A little better odds not much. The odds are still going to be one percent or less. But at least there is a chance.


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