6.5 vs 308

[txfireguy2003]

I've read the thread this far, so far.
I have yet to see anything mentioned about the 6.5 - 300 or us it wrote 6.5x300????

6.5-300 what? Weatherby? Winmag? Mine is a 6.5-300 WSM.

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[Willicd76]

Okay, I'll bite, because I don't shoot the Scenars.....What's the BC? I don't doubt you, just asking, because I'm having a hard time believing it can be anywhere close to the BC of a good 6.5, simply due to sectional density, which is a major factor in BC. As far as velocities, again I don't know and don't doubt you, in fact I think you might be a bit fast on the 6.5 side with the Creed and x47 being hard pressed to get above 2700 of memory serves me correctly. That's why I went wildcat and built a 6.5 WSM so I can run the better bullets too much higher velocity than any of the others, over 3100 on a new barrel, hoping to reach 3200 when broken in. The trade off is more recoil.

To answer your question and which I would take hunting, a 155gr 30 caliber or a 140gr 6.5......well it depends on the game, but if penetration is important, I go with the higher sectional density of the 6.5. As far as the heavy 308's, 200+ grains, I pursuant think you're asking a bit much of the 308 Winchester case. I think a 165-175 range bullet is ideal for that cartridge.

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BC on the scenar is claimed to be .508. Litz confirmed it at .500 i believe. People are running the 208 amax at 2600fps so it should do the same with a 200 accubond or partition. NOW which do you take after the big stuff? The .308 is still the versatitlity KING.
I build my own rifles so i have built and shot them all. I also have a 600yd range to play on at my house and have people over frequently for informal shoots. My surgeon RSR/krieger will consistenly shoot 1/2moa or better at 600yds off a bipod. Now, were i shooting for money, a 6mm or 6.5mm would definitely be my choice because of a greater margin of error allowance on wind calls.

[txfireguy2003]

That's a pretty good BC considering a 168AMAX is like .447. I'm not sure what Litz came up with for it.

As far as the 200gr bullets running 2600.....I just don't know about that. Maybe they are, I haven't tried, buy my 308 is running fairly hot at 2750 with 168's. I'm seeing pressure signs at that velocity if I am not very vigilant about cleaning...of course, that's in a 20" barrel with a can, so some speed is lost there from say a 26". Again, I'm not saying it can't be done, just that I think you're pushing the case pretty hard to get to 2600 with a 200+gr bullet. Hornady TAP 168 is only running 2675 or so (according to the label on the red box, black box civilian load claims 2700). If I could run a 200+ grain load at those velocities, I'd consider it for sure, I'm just fairly certain it can't be done in MY rifle.

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[Willicd76]

How are you certain it cant be done if you havnt tried it? The .308 will do everything i have claimed.......and more. Its cool though. I prefer the rest of you fighting over the 6mm and 6.5mm bullets and leaving the .30's alone.

[txfireguy2003]

As I said, I'm not doubting you, just saying I haven't seen those results. Both calibers have benefits for sure, I've been hunting with a 308 for years and will probably continue to do so. I just think that in the "average" or "normal/standard" loadings, the 6.5 bullets outperform the 30 bullets for trajectory, wind drift, penetration (assuming similar bullet construction) etc, if all else is equal/same case etc. But hey, if we are really being honest with ourselves here, it's all academic and they all kill stuff dead. There is no magic bullet or caliber that defies the laws of physics, and no death ray that instantly kills everything in every circumstance. To each his own. I like 308, really I do, but the 260 is better in my opinion. To each his own. Wet could even throw a bigger wrench in the gears and bring up 7mm-08. In fact, it probably beats 308 and 260 as it's the "best of both worlds" with adequate weight 160-170 class bullets with high BC, running at similar velocity to the 308.

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[Willicd76]

This article says it better than i can.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/308-winchester-1.php

[CornSlinger]

The 308 has been deemed as the ultimate versatile rifle by those what still have overly bias opinions on it. I see it quite differently. The 308 is the ultimate compromise rifle. It is a good deer hunting rifle no doubt. I'll take a 7mm-08 over it with a 140 Barnes all day. The 6.5 with the 140 is better also in my opinion. It will shoot 1000 yards no doubt. But there are several cartridges better than the 308 for long range. The 6.5 destroys it at 1000. Sure you can shoot a bear or moose with it with a softball thrown 200 grain. My 300 win mag shoots 200 grains at 2930 fps at 1/2 MOA. Most places won't let you shoot bear with a 308 if you do the research. My point is sure the 308 can do a lot of stuff. But for every thing it does another round does it better. It doesn't win at any category. It just competes in all of them. That being said a 6.5 with a 143 bullet will beat the 308 in 95% of all circumstances. Maybe in east Texas at 50 yards in brush it wins. In normal hunting in Texas I'll take my 6.5. I own a 308. I own a 7mm-08. I own a 6.5. I own a 300 win mag. I own a 25-06. I own a 243. I'm currently building a new 6.5 because it kills. Well. . They are a great caliber especially in a short action. I could get into sectional densities and BC and yardage charts and bullet lengths. But it won't overcome people's desire to just hold claim to the 308 as the ultimate versatile cartridge. I just think it's a compromise to say buy a 308 cause it's ok at a lot of stuff.

[CornSlinger]

When people want to compare the .308 to the 6.5's, they always seem to choose the most slippery bullets for the 6.5 and common hunting bullets in the .30cal. Compare a 155 scenar at 2950fps which is easy to do in a 22" .308 to the 140's at 2750 which is REALISTIC velocity for the creed or x47 in a hunting length barrel. The .308 is the ultimate "all around" in a short action. If you had to go after a moose or big bear would you rather do it with 140 grains or 200 plus?

The reason people compare the best bullets for the 6.5is because the new 6.5's are all designed to shoot high BC bullets. The market has pushed for that. research and technology has shown us longer higher BC bullets perform well on target ranges and for killing animals. The 308 has the ability to almost shoot any gr bullet with an average rifle twist. But it doesn't mean that's better. Why brag about being able to shoot a 125 and a 200? That's compromise at its best. Get a rifle that's actually got some science behind why it has a small assortment of bullets available. It's because those are great bullets. If I wanted to go after bear and moose, I would buy a bear or moose rifle. Not lob 200+ grain bullets at it that aren't stabilized well. If you wanted to shoot 220's with a 308 you would need a faster twist rate barrel. Then you have a super slow moose rifle that can't stabilize 150's for deer.

[CornSlinger]

BC on the scenar is claimed to be .508. Litz confirmed it at .500 i believe. People are running the 208 amax at 2600fps so it should do the same with a 200 accubond or partition. NOW which do you take after the big stuff? The .308 is still the versatitlity KING.
I build my own rifles so i have built and shot them all. I also have a 600yd range to play on at my house and have people over frequently for informal shoots. My surgeon RSR/krieger will consistenly shoot 1/2moa or better at 600yds off a bipod. Now, were i shooting for money, a 6mm or 6.5mm would definitely be my choice because of a greater margin of error allowance on wind calls.

As per lapua website. 0.460 BC on 155. The 6.5 143 is 0.623. Sure you can get the 155 moving faster out of the muzzle. But in the land of long range it loses. 2700 fps is factory published fps data. You just took a custom load for a 308 and compared to factory for 6.5. Not really apples to apples which is what you are complaining about people doing to the 308.

[Willicd76]

i was referring to ONE rifle to do EVERYTHING, and the .308 does it better than anything else in a short action. If you want to compare it to your 300WM, can i bring my .338 EDGE into the equation. You call it compromise and i call it versatility. I hardly call 2600fps with a 208 amax lobbing and people shoot it in a common 10 or 12 twist which does just as well with a 150gr. I would be happy to enlighten you to the capabilities of a .308 if you ever make it up to the panhandle. Bring your 6.5 whatever and be prepared to supply the drinks when the shooting is over.

[Pullersboy]

You really need one of both, just for practical purposes.

I like the way you think! See fellas, this man has the right thought process. Y'all limiting yourselves. Of you ever want to have more guns, you have to start by thinking this way. At some point, you'll have to convince the wife that you "need this one too."

[CornSlinger]

i was referring to ONE rifle to do EVERYTHING, and the .308 does it better than anything else in a short action. If you want to compare it to your 300WM, can i bring my .338 EDGE into the equation. You call it compromise and i call it versatility. I hardly call 2600fps with a 208 amax lobbing and people shoot it in a common 10 or 12 twist which does just as well with a 150gr. I would be happy to enlighten you to the capabilities of a .308 if you ever make it up to the panhandle. Bring your 6.5 whatever and be prepared to supply the drinks when the shooting is over.

I referenced my 300 wm to show velocities of another .308 caliber. Not a 338 or a 50 bmg, a 308 cal weapon. You have fun on your range up in the panhandle. Coming on a forum and becoming the official 308 nazi is not what this place is about. The 308 is a capable weapon but it has been beaten. Sure you can build an amazing 308 and do great things with it. No one said you can't. But not recognizing that the newer VLD style bullets out of .264 cal weapons with less Recoil, higher SD's. Higher BC, and newer technology bullets aren't amazing rounds is just ignoring facts. Saying a 308 is a better all purpose weapon "for everything" is biased and not looking at the whole picture. Maybe you rule your local area with your 308, but come down to our 1200 yard range and go from 100 to 1200 and then go hunt with it and you won't have to educate anyone down here. We've all done what you are acting like you are the only person doing. Just because you are doing it with a 308 doesn't mean you are the new winner of forum world. You're not making any friends on here with your "come to my world and get educated" attitude. I promise you, I'm educated and don't need any lessons on the 308.

[CornSlinger]

I like the way you think! See fellas, this man has the right thought process. Y'all limiting yourselves. Of you ever want to have more guns, you have to start by thinking this way. At some point, you'll have to convince the wife that you "need this one too."

Exactly!! Why just get one?!?! Hahah I like Your style.

[CornSlinger]

I came across as a little one sided. I honestly do like the 308 round. I just believe we have developed some better options in the market than the 308. It's a funny conversation with people when they ask what rifle they should buy for hunting in Texas. I usually tell them a 6.5 x 284 or a 6.5 creedmore or a 7mm-08. I see their faces and they just don't want to buy in. Our minds have been programmed to go for 308 cal rifles. So they get a 308. I'll help them pick and choose and get it rigged up for them. Not a bad choice. But we go hunting and they shoot my rifles and see the results we get and ask why I told them to get a 308. Hahahah every time. I think in the next few years we will see the acceptance of higher BC lower Recoil rifles becoming more and more of the norm for deer and up to elk sized animals. Today's bullets have really lowered the gap between accuracy and killing potential.

[Willicd76]

I came across as a little one sided. I honestly do like the 308 round. I just believe we have developed some better options in the market than the 308. It's a funny conversation with people when they ask what rifle they should buy for hunting in Texas. I usually tell them a 6.5 x 284 or a 6.5 creedmore or a 7mm-08. I see their faces and they just don't want to buy in. Our minds have been programmed to go for 308 cal rifles. So they get a 308. I'll help them pick and choose and get it rigged up for them. Not a bad choice. But we go hunting and they shoot my rifles and see the results we get and ask why I told them to get a 308. Hahahah every time. I think in the next few years we will see the acceptance of higher BC lower Recoil rifles becoming more and more of the norm for deer and up to elk sized animals. Today's bullets have really lowered the gap between accuracy and killing potential.

You ADVISE people to buy a 6.5x284 to hunt with? I have never heard a more ignorant statement made. The x284 in any flavor is an experpt reloaders caliber that is used primarily as a target round by any count. I would NEVER advise someone seeking cousel to use it as a hunting round for MANY reasons. You clearly dont know as much as you would like to think you do......