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Old 05-08-2017, 08:53 AM   #1
Hunter Todd
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I'm looking for help from the Old Timers, New Timers or anyone with a decent GUESS! I have a 58" 54lb@28" longbow. I've shot this bow for over a year and was pretty accurate with it. I shoot a 340 spine Traditional Only arrow cut to 29.5" with a 100 gr insert and a 175 gr point. These arrows flew like darts. Hit right where is was looking. About 5 months ago I buy a 49lb recurve and shot it for several months. When I switched back to my longbow, shooting the same arrows i've always shot out of it, it's hitting about 16" to the left from 18 yards. I mean a tight group to the left. Here is what I've tried so far. I've messed with the Brace Height, I''ve tried 400 spine arrows, I've tried every point weight combination (with the 340 spine arrows) from 100 gr point with an aluminum insert all the way up to 100 gr insert with 175gr point. EVERYTHING hits to the left. I've moved up to 5 yards and every shot 3-4" to the left. I've tried changing my grip from one extreme to the other. The only time I hit close to where I am looking is if I hold the bow vertical. I've been shooting it for a month now and cant get it to hit where I'm looking. Any ideas?
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:13 AM   #2
jerp
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Not to state the obvious, but if those arrows were grouping before you switched bows and now they are not, it is likely a form issue. I have the same problem going back and forth between longbow and recurve because of the difference in grips - where the pressure is on your hand can make quite a difference dowrange. Another thought - since you have gone up in weight, do you think you might be short-drawing, creeping or moving your head forward? That would have the same effect as a too stiff arrow - which would explain going left. (16" is a lot, though)
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:24 AM   #3
Hunter Todd
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Originally Posted by jerp View Post
Not to state the obvious, but if those arrows were grouping before you switched bows and now they are not, it is likely a form issue. I have the same problem going back and forth between longbow and recurve because of the difference in grips - where the pressure is on your hand can make quite a difference dowrange. Another thought - since you have gone up in weight, do you think you might be short-drawing, creeping or moving your head forward? That would have the same effect as a too stiff arrow - which would explain going left. (16" is a lot, though)
I agree with the form issue. Just not sure what it is. AND I forgot to mention I''m a lefty
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:37 AM   #4
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You're not canting anymore

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Old 05-08-2017, 09:57 AM   #5
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Really shocked you had 340's flying like darts. Man that is stiff, but with 275 in the nose ??
Anyhow, if they were going where you wanted, and now they are not, like Jerp said. It's in the form. I switch back and forth between my recurve and longbow a lot. My longbow (in my avatar) is the smooth, string follow bow with straight grip. My recurve has a bit of a high wrist. I tend to hit my forearm a few times with the longbow, but the most important thing is how your form is before the release. I'll agree, you may not be canting like you were, or maybe more depending on how you shot the second bow.
Personally I have never been successful at shooting a gap style because I ALWAYS shoot a mile left. I would suggest shooting some blind bale and just drawing without shots. Make sure you hit your anchor, and are not torquing while you draw.
Slow down, relax, and come back to it. Repeat as necessary.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:26 AM   #6
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IMHO...If it wasn't broke before, it shouldn't be broke now. Has to be a form issue. I too shoot longbows and recurves and occasionally have one which shoots different from the other. You just have to mentally make the adjustment. I just received a new (to me) recurve a couple of weeks ago and it was shooting left (but not 16") from my intended spot. I made the mental adjustment and was stacking arrows where I was looking.

Doug
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:49 AM   #7
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You're not canting anymore

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Yes, I'm still canting. I was just shooting vertical to see if that changed anything. I dont like shooting vertical at all!
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:51 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Dry Bones View Post
Really shocked you had 340's flying like darts. Man that is stiff, but with 275 in the nose ??
Anyhow, if they were going where you wanted, and now they are not, like Jerp said. It's in the form. I switch back and forth between my recurve and longbow a lot. My longbow (in my avatar) is the smooth, string follow bow with straight grip. My recurve has a bit of a high wrist. I tend to hit my forearm a few times with the longbow, but the most important thing is how your form is before the release. I'll agree, you may not be canting like you were, or maybe more depending on how you shot the second bow.
Personally I have never been successful at shooting a gap style because I ALWAYS shoot a mile left. I would suggest shooting some blind bale and just drawing without shots. Make sure you hit your anchor, and are not torquing while you draw.
Slow down, relax, and come back to it. Repeat as necessary.
Yeah, I bought a test kit and couldnt get the 400's to fly. The 340's with all the weight up front fly great for me. I guess I'll just keep shooting and see if it comes back. Everything feels perfect when I release. It just wont hit where I'm looking.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:53 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by splitfinger View Post
IMHO...If it wasn't broke before, it shouldn't be broke now. Has to be a form issue. I too shoot longbows and recurves and occasionally have one which shoots different from the other. You just have to mentally make the adjustment. I just received a new (to me) recurve a couple of weeks ago and it was shooting left (but not 16") from my intended spot. I made the mental adjustment and was stacking arrows where I was looking.

Doug
Thats what i keep telling myself.
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:29 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Hunter Todd View Post
Everything feels perfect when I release. It just wont hit where I'm looking.


That is the story of my archery life these days!!!!!

Hope you get it figured out!

Bisch
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:25 PM   #11
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I have a theory. Sorry I can't make it short

My theory has always been that folks who shoot "instinctive" are still "gap" shooters... they just don't realize it. You may not focus on the bow or arrow or string, and you may not calculate in your mind where your target should be relative to them... but your brain still does. At least that is my opinion.

When I tried a lot of folks bows a couple years back, and we were all pretty much close in draw length, I noticed some guy's arrows would fly way off the friggin left or right... I mean not slightly out of tune off, I mean way the hell out there. I surmised it was likely how the were bracing that bow and how they were looking. The ones that hit where I couldn't even see really boggled my mind.

Fast forward to getting my widow. My widow hit left a few inches compared to my sage on reasonably tuned arrows. Ben told me to just adjust my perspective. I refused and weakened them a bit to bring them back in to where I was looking. I could have just adjusted, but it was 1 week to opening weekend and I was gonna have none of that.

Leading up to the hog hunt, I was hitting pretty good... now 2 weeks afterwards, I have started hitting right. I normally "fall off" to the left... but I am hitting right??? I am a big confused by it, but I believe that I has something to do with tight muscles, not shooting as much the past 2 weeks, and not bracing quite the same. Towards the end of shooting, I am coming back into center more (thinking warm up, etc.)

So, to my point...

You have been shooting a different bow... a bow that looks a little different, and one that you have tune quite a bit differently than you did your longbow. The shape of the riser, cutout, limb width, etc probably played a role in adjusting to where you look. You likely tuned into a good spot and stayed there for a while and your brain, compensated for it. It was a different bow and so it was okay for it to look a little different in the site position over time. You didn't notice it because you weren't consciously focusing on that aspect... but your brain was. Now that you are back on your old bow, your brain wants to look where the arrows were flying relative to the new bow. Those arrows still sound really stiff (which makes sense for you hitting right since you are left handed.) and your brain hasn't made the switch to start looking over there... or more importantly... bracing so that over there is in front of you, where you are looking now.

That is my theory... you can do one of two things... let your mind make the switch for you and start bracing to where the arrow hits where you are looking.... or weaken them and try and get the arrows to hit where you are looking now.

And as for the flying like darts... when my arrows are too stiff, they still look like they fly like darts... it is not till I have contact or really weak that they wobble a lot. At least that is what I notice.

Last edited by SwampRabbit; 05-08-2017 at 02:27 PM..
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:16 PM   #12
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I had some thoughts until you said that you were a lefty, then I lost them all...no help here.
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:16 PM   #13
Hunter Todd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampRabbit View Post
I have a theory. Sorry I can't make it short

My theory has always been that folks who shoot "instinctive" are still "gap" shooters... they just don't realize it. You may not focus on the bow or arrow or string, and you may not calculate in your mind where your target should be relative to them... but your brain still does. At least that is my opinion.

When I tried a lot of folks bows a couple years back, and we were all pretty much close in draw length, I noticed some guy's arrows would fly way off the friggin left or right... I mean not slightly out of tune off, I mean way the hell out there. I surmised it was likely how the were bracing that bow and how they were looking. The ones that hit where I couldn't even see really boggled my mind.

Fast forward to getting my widow. My widow hit left a few inches compared to my sage on reasonably tuned arrows. Ben told me to just adjust my perspective. I refused and weakened them a bit to bring them back in to where I was looking. I could have just adjusted, but it was 1 week to opening weekend and I was gonna have none of that.

Leading up to the hog hunt, I was hitting pretty good... now 2 weeks afterwards, I have started hitting right. I normally "fall off" to the left... but I am hitting right??? I am a big confused by it, but I believe that I has something to do with tight muscles, not shooting as much the past 2 weeks, and not bracing quite the same. Towards the end of shooting, I am coming back into center more (thinking warm up, etc.)

So, to my point...

You have been shooting a different bow... a bow that looks a little different, and one that you have tune quite a bit differently than you did your longbow. The shape of the riser, cutout, limb width, etc probably played a role in adjusting to where you look. You likely tuned into a good spot and stayed there for a while and your brain, compensated for it. It was a different bow and so it was okay for it to look a little different in the site position over time. You didn't notice it because you weren't consciously focusing on that aspect... but your brain was. Now that you are back on your old bow, your brain wants to look where the arrows were flying relative to the new bow. Those arrows still sound really stiff (which makes sense for you hitting right since you are left handed.) and your brain hasn't made the switch to start looking over there... or more importantly... bracing so that over there is in front of you, where you are looking now.

That is my theory... you can do one of two things... let your mind make the switch for you and start bracing to where the arrow hits where you are looking.... or weaken them and try and get the arrows to hit where you are looking now.

And as for the flying like darts... when my arrows are too stiff, they still look like they fly like darts... it is not till I have contact or really weak that they wobble a lot. At least that is what I notice.
Thanks Scott! You may be on to something. I may be hunting with the recurve this year if I cant get it together. My old brain has a few more months to make the adjustments.
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:31 PM   #14
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Thanks Scott! You may be on to something. I may be hunting with the recurve this year if I cant get it together. My old brain has a few more months to make the adjustments.
Oh and I just realized I total flubbed the spine/right hit/left handed thing. You said you were hitting left and I confused myself as I was typing when I started talking about me hitting right... That's what happens when a guy types too much... I need an editor
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Old 05-08-2017, 04:09 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by SwampRabbit View Post
Oh and I just realized I total flubbed the spine/right hit/left handed thing. You said you were hitting left and I confused myself as I was typing when I started talking about me hitting right... That's what happens when a guy types too much... I need an editor
That's OK, I knew you also meant to say stiff arrows can show a false weak. I read between the lines.
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Old 05-08-2017, 05:26 PM   #16
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Are they both cut to center or is recurve cut past center . The reason if your used to shooting a bow that is cut past say 3/16 or an 1/8 then you shoot a bow that is cut to center you are going to shoot left or vice versa on the bow. I sometimes shoot an old bow used to shoot that's cut to center I will shoot left regardless of arrow combinations because I shoot past center because that's what I am used to now. Just something to check on.
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Old 05-08-2017, 05:32 PM   #17
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Are they both cut to center or is recurve cut past center . The reason if your used to shooting a bow that is cut past say 3/16 or an 1/8 then you shoot a bow that is cut to center you are going to shoot left or vice versa on the bow. I sometimes shoot an old bow used to shoot that's cut to center I will shoot left regardless of arrow combinations because I shoot past center because that's what I am used to now. Just something to check on.
Roger, you may just be a genius! I'll check that when i get home!
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Old 05-08-2017, 08:02 PM   #18
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See if they're both cut the same (center, past center, before center). If you're shooting with the quiver on one and off the other it will make a difference. Also, grip will make a big difference if the grips are different. You may be torquing one or the other. If you know your arrows are tuned those are the 3 things I'd look at... shelf, quiver, grip.
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Old 05-09-2017, 07:17 AM   #19
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I chedked last night and the longbow shelf is cut slightly deeper. So, I built the shelf out a little and it definately improved it but still not spot on. So, I moved up to 10 yards and took my focus completely off the arrow as i drew the bow. Normally I look straight down the arrow as I am drawing the bow and just before I hit anchor i switch ALL of my focus to the target. Once I started NOT looking down the arrow while drawing and focused on the target from the start of the draw cycle, things started getting ALOT better. After 20 or so shots I really started to get dialed in again. This is the strangest thing to figure out, but I think we are about there. I really appreciate all the help.........even from Jeff
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Old 05-09-2017, 07:36 PM   #20
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So how did you determine the name for the thread?

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Old 05-09-2017, 07:49 PM   #21
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So how did you determine the name for the thread?

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Old 05-09-2017, 07:50 PM   #22
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Huh. Thanx.

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Old 05-10-2017, 07:27 AM   #23
Hunter Todd
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DRT I am full of old sayings. For instance, right now my form is as jacked up as a cat in a fanbelt!

update on the longbow saga. I shot my cedar arrows out of the longbow last night and they hit exactly where I was looking. So, I'm starting to think my carbon arrows are out of tune arrows. I have no idea why they shot so well during deer season. One of life's little mysteries..............

Last edited by Hunter Todd; 05-10-2017 at 07:36 AM..
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