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Old 08-04-2019, 03:25 PM   #1
jdavidson
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Default Hypothetical scenario

Just curious...
Thereís 4 good guys with concealed weapons in Walmart. They are shopping with family and minding their businesses. One good guy on isle 2. One good guy on isle 4. One good guy on isle 8. One good guy on isle 10.
Then on isle 6 a lunatic nut job pulls a gun from his waistband and starts executing innocent people.
All 4 good guys draw weapon...advance to the commotion...come running towards isle 6 with weapon drawn...total chaos everywhere. All 4 good guys and the devil wind up on isle 6 and a shootout begins.
My question is...how do the good guys know who to shoot ? How do the good guys know if itís just one bad guy or multiple ? How do the good guys know when to quit shooting ?
And if ANYBODY reads into this Iím preaching against self protection...then you canít read very well
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Old 08-04-2019, 03:32 PM   #2
okrattler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdavidson View Post
Just curious...
There’s 4 good guys with concealed weapons in Walmart. They are shopping with family and minding their businesses. One good guy on isle 2. One good guy on isle 4. One good guy on isle 8. One good guy on isle 10.
Then on isle 6 a lunatic nut job pulls a gun from his waistband and starts executing innocent people.
All 4 good guys draw weapon...advance to the commotion...come running towards isle 6 with weapon drawn...total chaos everywhere. All 4 good guys and the devil wind up on isle 6 and a shootout begins.
My question is...how do the good guys know who to shoot ? How do the good guys know if it’s just one bad guy or multiple ? How do the good guys know when to quit shooting ?
And if ANYBODY reads into this I’m preaching against self protection...then you can’t read very well
If anyone shoots at me,they're a bad guy. I'll deal with the repercussions later if I'm wrong and live through it.
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Old 08-04-2019, 03:34 PM   #3
12RingKing
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The scenario would read itself. I believe you would instinctively know who’s bad and who’s good by their demeanor.

If I saw guys in street clothes with pistols and a guy with body armor and an ak47.... common sense should take over.
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Old 08-04-2019, 03:35 PM   #4
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It’s happened actually. Innocent undercover or off duty LEOs have been shot while responding to a disturbance before when out of uniform.

In the scenario you hope the “good guys” as you state are trained to identify the true target and the target’s actions prior to firing. Highly unlikely though IMO.
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Old 08-04-2019, 03:37 PM   #5
Drycreek3189
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The hypothetical scenario you describe is why IN MOST CASES one should hang back until he/she figures out what is going on. I know that’s not how it should happen in a perfect world, but this world is far from perfect. Unfortunately, bad guys don’t have a sign hanging around their necks.

Oh, and neither do good guys, and if you have a gun in your hand when the cops arrive, you will be a dead good guy.
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Old 08-04-2019, 03:38 PM   #6
camoclad
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Originally Posted by RascalArms View Post
Itís happened actually. Innocent undercover or off duty LEOs have been shot while responding to a disturbance before when out of uniform.

In the scenario you hope the ďgood guysĒ as you state are trained to identify the true target and the targetís actions prior to firing. Highly unlikely though IMO.
This^^, if you find yourself moving toward gunfire in plainclothes, the odds are already not great even before you get to the area the fire is originating.

Good question OP. Gun owners ought to be thinking about these scenarios.
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Old 08-04-2019, 03:40 PM   #7
jdavidson
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Originally Posted by Drycreek3189 View Post
The hypothetical scenario you describe is why IN MOST CASES one should hang back until he/she figures out what is going on. I know thatís not how it should happen in a perfect world, but this world is far from perfect. Unfortunately, bad guys donít have a sign hanging around their necks.

Oh, and neither do good guys, and if you have a gun in your hand when the cops arrive, you will be a dead good guy.
only logical response so far
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Old 08-04-2019, 03:40 PM   #8
ttaxidermy
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This might help some of you decide what to do.

https://youtu.be/j0It68YxLQQ
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Old 08-04-2019, 03:41 PM   #9
12RingKing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camoclad View Post
This^^, if you find yourself moving toward gunfire in plainclothes, the odds are already not great even before you get to the area the fire is originating.

Good question OP. Gun owners ought to be thinking about these scenarios.
It is true and a good point.

Thatís why when cops show up, good guys know to get on the ground with weapons out of their hands
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Old 08-04-2019, 07:12 PM   #10
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X2 what Drycreek said. Don't go in blazing. Figure out what is going on.This is a good example of the responsibility that comes with a concealed carry license.
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Old 08-04-2019, 07:22 PM   #11
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Imo if someone’s shooting up a place and I run around the corner and see someone else with a gun but not shooting ima assume that they’re on the good guy side. Especially if they see me with a gun drawn. Because more than likely the shooting is still going to be going on in the meantime and it’d be obvious.
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:48 AM   #12
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I’ve thought through and talked through a lot of scenarios. I carry everywhere when I’m off duty. With that said, my weapon is for my protection and the protection of my family, first and foremost. Now, if I’m ever in such a situation, god forbid...it will depend on a lot of factors. If the shooter is in plain sight and I can safely make a shot or move to a position to neutralize the threat, I’ll gladly take it. But, I’m not going looking for the shooter. I’ll help my family first and then as many others as possible move to safety/shelter. Selfish? Maybe...but, if I get myself killed immediately by doing something stupid, I’m no help to anyone.
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:53 AM   #13
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Run. Hide. Fight. A conceal carrier should not actively hunt down a shooter. Get out of the area as quickly as you can. If you run into the shooter while finding cover or exiting, neutralize the threat and keep moving. This isn't the movies or a video game. If you are unable to exit don't force your way out guns blazing, stage up somewhere with good cover and angles that you can strategically work if need be. You are responsible for your own safety and your family, everyone else isn't your concern. It is a harsh truth and lots of people don't like to think about it like that but it is what it is.

Last edited by yotethumper; 08-05-2019 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 08-05-2019, 11:03 AM   #14
Traildust
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According to the media.....the white guy with the Trump hat on is the bad guy....shoot him first. If you are white and have a Trump hat on, shoot yourself second.
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Old 08-05-2019, 11:03 AM   #15
TexasBob
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Thought about this a lot the last couple of days. Always scary, but I mean now its Walmart... If I can see the shooter, I'm engaged and have to deal. If I can't, its retreat if its safe, best defensive position I can in front of my wife and daughter if not. Feels rough to say, but I'm worried about them and then myself. Not leaving them to play the hero if I'm being honest, guess it's not in me. Help anyone I could, but not at their or my expense.
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Old 08-05-2019, 11:05 AM   #16
TxMedic
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Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
Thought about this a lot the last couple of days. Always scary, but I mean now its Walmart... If I can see the shooter, I'm engaged and have to deal. If I can't, its retreat if its safe, best defensive position I can in front of my wife and daughter if not. Feels rough to say, but I'm worried about them and then myself. Not leaving them to play the hero if I'm being honest, guess it's not in me. Help anyone I could, but not at their or my expense.
Absolutely on point.
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Old 08-05-2019, 11:10 AM   #17
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Seems like in most of recent mass shootings, the Devil is carrying some type of Assault rifle. Should be easy to recognize over a good guy with a 9MM concealed weapon. But, that was not part of your scenario. Honestly, I don't know. I guess take a safe position and see who makes the first move on an innocent, then cut him down.
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Old 08-05-2019, 11:28 AM   #18
TxSon1836
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Originally Posted by TxMedic View Post
Iíve thought through and talked through a lot of scenarios. I carry everywhere when Iím off duty. With that said, my weapon is for my protection and the protection of my family, first and foremost. Now, if Iím ever in such a situation, god forbid...it will depend on a lot of factors. If the shooter is in plain sight and I can safely make a shot or move to a position to neutralize the threat, Iíll gladly take it. But, Iím not going looking for the shooter. Iíll help my family first and then as many others as possible move to safety/shelter. Selfish? Maybe...but, if I get myself killed immediately by doing something stupid, Iím no help to anyone.
this is how I feel about these situations as well no reason to play hero and get yourself or others killed by the assailant or by LEO. I understand the want for wanting to run and help others but at the end of the day its about me my family and the other people around me. now if while trying to flee the scene if we run across a threat I pray I will be able to help but the ultimate prayer is an end for the senseless violence and find a way to reteach the value of a human life which is obviously lacking in our society
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