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Old 01-17-2020, 09:17 AM   #1
kingranch
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Got dinged on inspector report that the house ac disconnect is in wrong spot
This was like this since house was built in 2002 in Brazoria county.

Is there a code that can tell me what is wrong.. should it be to the side? Seems like a pain to move as it penetrates the brick to the panel
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:30 AM   #2
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Iíve never seen a code that says behind the condenser is not allowed. Code in Lubbock county says it must be in sight. Old code was that it had to be in arms reach of condenser. Yours looks great.


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Old 01-17-2020, 09:31 AM   #3
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And its current placement will not affect the value of the house.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:33 AM   #4
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NEC 110.26

If the disconnect is within 3' of the compressor you would be in violation.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi513 View Post
NEC 110.26

If the disconnect is within 3' of the compressor you would be in violation.
This is what I have always been told as well.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:40 AM   #6
kingranch
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Also this
Am I supposed to run a new wire to outside outlets now?
This seems ridiculous as I can see a never ending list as time goes on to constantly be to code. It was obviously fine to have the lines together in 2002.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:45 AM   #7
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How can I fix this?
What if I just put a Jbox in the spot that is the disconnect and move the disconnect over 3 ft like this?
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:48 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingranch View Post
Also this
Am I supposed to run a new wire to outside outlets now?
This seems ridiculous as I can see a never ending list as time goes on to constantly be to code. It was obviously fine to have the lines together in 2002.
I would ask an electrician. I bet it's fine and the inspector is looking at the more recent code in black and white, and not taking into account when you house was built.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:49 AM   #9
125Dad
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The disconnect is a tricky one. Is it readily accessible or just accessible. I think that’s the code he may be pointing out. It would not be a concern if I was buying a house
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:05 AM   #10
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Might just give the buyer a couple hundred dollar allowance and if they want it moved let them have it done.
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:13 AM   #11
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Inspectors don't inspect code infractions. I don't think they CAN under their licensing actually. Most don't know National Codes (NEC, NFPA, UPC, etc) as it isn't even part of the licensing.

They have an SOP (Standards of Practice)from TREC and only report: https://www.trec.texas.gov/sites/def...ub%20(002).pdf


Ask the inspector to cite the requirements.

FYI, It is only required to be within sight and readily accessible":

"According to the National Electrical Code (NEC) 240.24 (A), location in or on premises require that overcurrent devices be ďreadily accessibleĒ and shall be installed so that the center of the grip of the operating handle of the disconnecting switch or circuit breaker, when in its highest position, is not more than 2.0 m (6 feet 7 inches) above the floor"

Inspectors IMO just try to justify putting something on the check-box for particular line item on the SOP. Don't let 'em kill a deal for frivolous stuff.
Call 'em out, don't give 'em too much credit. Most of it is common sense.

If it is installed correctly (wiring has grommets into/out of box etc.) , and in good condition.
Tell him to pound sand. ...Ö.IMO

Signed,
Former TREC Inspector

EDIT: Not to Buyer
GO to Home Depot and buy a 4-prog plug for you dryer.

(See how he put something in the space of the form>)

Last edited by Philip-TX; 01-17-2020 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:33 AM   #12
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As a seller, I ain't doing nothing. As a buyer, I ain't wanting anything done. Those are stupid acknowledgements by the inspector.

When our house was inspected he noted holes in the screens....heck, everyone could see there were holes in the screens. The windows needed to be replaced anyway.
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
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As a seller, I ain't doing nothing. As a buyer, I ain't wanting anything done. Those are stupid acknowledgements by the inspector.

When our house was inspected he noted holes in the screens....heck, everyone could see there were holes in the screens. The windows needed to be replaced anyway.
He is required by the state to list deficiencies in or the absence of the window screens
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingranch View Post
How can I fix this?
What if I just put a Jbox in the spot that is the disconnect and move the disconnect over 3 ft like this?
This is the best solution. Iíve been in the business 20+ years and yes it is a legitimate code violation. IMO it is a BS call because you only need access to it to shut power off to the unit. But the code says you must have a 30ííx 30íí workspace in front of that.
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:56 AM   #15
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Technically, it isn’t supposed to be directly behind the unit. I know city inspectors in San Antonio will fail us for it.

As for a home inspection, I would decline to fix it unless it’s absolutely going to kill the sale. It in no way affects the performance or safety of the machine. It’s just a stupid rule and home inspectors will note anything and everything so their client thinks they accomplished something.

If you must fix it, your j-box idea will work just fine.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:03 AM   #16
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This is the best solution. Iíve been in the business 20+ years and yes it is a legitimate code violation. IMO it is a BS call because you only need access to it to shut power off to the unit. But the code says you must have a 30ííx 30íí workspace in front of that.
For a breaker panel vs. a disconnect? Both?
...Curious
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:35 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip-TX View Post
For a breaker panel vs. a disconnect? Both?
...Curious
Disconnect
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:44 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by bowhntrmatt View Post
Technically, it isnít supposed to be directly behind the unit. I know city inspectors in San Antonio will fail us for it.

As for a home inspection, I would decline to fix it unless itís absolutely going to kill the sale. It in no way affects the performance or safety of the machine. Itís just a stupid rule and home inspectors will note anything and everything so their client thinks they accomplished something.

If you must fix it, your j-box idea will work just fine.
Yep.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:52 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingranch View Post
How can I fix this?
What if I just put a Jbox in the spot that is the disconnect and move the disconnect over 3 ft like this?
That would meet code, but as others have said, I wouldn't do anything.

On the dryer receptacle, he is just letting the buyers know that you have a 4 wire receptacle. A 4 wire receptacle is todays standard. If the buyers have a 3 wire dryer they would either have to have the receptacle changed out or the dryer cord changed.
You're good, leave it alone.

On the garage receptacles, he's wrong. There is an exception that allows readily accessible outdoor outlets to be tied to the garage circuit.
This is a new code and you would have been grandfathered in any way...
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:54 AM   #20
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Home inspectors try to base all their decisions good or bad off the most recent code. Since your house was built before this code was put in place you have no obligation to make any changes that are based on old vs new code.

If the buyer wants you to make the changes tell them fine and that you will adjust the price to reflect the changes.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:55 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip-TX View Post
For a breaker panel vs. a disconnect? Both?
...Curious
Any electrical equipment. Panels, disconnects, transformers, etc.
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Old 01-17-2020, 12:52 PM   #22
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It is a working clearance NEC violation as noted by Rubi. In that instance there must be 30Ē clear in front of the disconnect and at least 30Ē wide as well.


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Old 01-17-2020, 01:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingranch View Post
Also this
Am I supposed to run a new wire to outside outlets now?
This seems ridiculous as I can see a never ending list as time goes on to constantly be to code. It was obviously fine to have the lines together in 2002.
Technically you donít have to fix any of it. The right thing to do is correct what was a code violation when the house was built. Codes are always changing and yes it would be a never ending list to fix everything.
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Old 01-17-2020, 08:13 PM   #24
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What I've found on the disconnect/panel front:

Don't try to use Article 110.26 clearances for working space.
It only has to be accessible and with-in sight. Article 440.14

Breaker panels are covered by Article 110.26. which covers equipment that is likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized.
A/C disconnects are not covered by article 110.26 because you can de-energize it to service it.

Disconnecting Means
440.14 Location Disconnecting means shall be located within sight from and readily accessible from the air-conditioning or refrigeration equipment.
The disconnecting means shall be permitted to be installed on or with-in the air-conditioning or refrigeration equipment.
The disconnecting means shall not be located on panels that are designed to allow access to the air-conditioning or refrigeration equipment.

Good Luck with the sale.
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip-TX View Post
What I've found on the disconnect/panel front:

Don't try to use Article 110.26 clearances for working space.
It only has to be accessible and with-in sight. Article 440.14

Breaker panels are covered by Article 110.26. which covers equipment that is likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized.
A/C disconnects are not covered by article 110.26 because you can de-energize it to service it.

Disconnecting Means
440.14 Location Disconnecting means shall be located within sight from and readily accessible from the air-conditioning or refrigeration equipment.
The disconnecting means shall be permitted to be installed on or with-in the air-conditioning or refrigeration equipment.
The disconnecting means shall not be located on panels that are designed to allow access to the air-conditioning or refrigeration equipment.

Good Luck with the sale.
Wrong.
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Old 01-22-2020, 04:13 PM   #26
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Can I run both wires in one piece of conduit if I move it over 3 ft? Or do I need to put each run to and from the junction box in separate conduits per code?
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Old 01-22-2020, 07:20 PM   #27
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Just because the inspector said there is an issue, that doesn't mean you have to fix it. He is just telling the buyer what he sees that may be a problem.
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Old 01-22-2020, 07:29 PM   #28
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Just because the inspector said there is an issue, that doesn't mean you have to fix it. He is just telling the buyer what he sees that may be a problem.
This. You don't have to do anything
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Old 01-22-2020, 11:00 PM   #29
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I know...I know I dont have to do squat but I want to appease the buyers and show that I am correcting most every electric issue that was mentioned in report
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Old 01-23-2020, 07:46 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip-TX View Post
What I've found on the disconnect/panel front:

Don't try to use Article 110.26 clearances for working space.
It only has to be accessible and with-in sight. Article 440.14

Breaker panels are covered by Article 110.26. which covers equipment that is likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized.
A/C disconnects are not covered by article 110.26 because you can de-energize it to service it.

Disconnecting Means
440.14 Location Disconnecting means shall be located within sight from and readily accessible from the air-conditioning or refrigeration equipment.
The disconnecting means shall be permitted to be installed on or with-in the air-conditioning or refrigeration equipment.
The disconnecting means shall not be located on panels that are designed to allow access to the air-conditioning or refrigeration equipment.

Good Luck with the sale.


This is wrong.

Op. You canít run line and load in the same conduit. Just throw a jbox on existing disconnect and move it over. Abandon the line that goes thru the wall to the unit. Run a new line in a flex whip (assuming itís shorter than 6í) if itís longer you can run sch. 80 pvc and then transition to flex. I will post pic next.


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Old 01-23-2020, 07:49 AM   #31
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Old 01-23-2020, 08:01 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingranch View Post
I know...I know I dont have to do squat but I want to appease the buyers and show that I am correcting most every electric issue that was mentioned in report


If I were you, I would get with the buyers and bring an electrician and have him explain what the inspector found. He didnt find anything that should scare anybody off. If I was buying that house, I wouldnt want you drilling into that brick to move an accessible disconnect 3í to the side. Jmo, but its worth a thought.


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Old 01-23-2020, 10:35 AM   #33
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I see more ac disconnects installed incorrectly than correct. When I got in the business very few even had disconnects.
I wouldn't fix it, or give them the option to fix but increase the house price. Depends on how motivated you are to sell.
The inspector has to note any deficiencies to current code. If he doesn't then what was he paid for?

In my neighborhood all of the houses were wired without ground wires to the receptacles. The only ones with ground wires are the ones that came set up for window units, the washing machine outlet, stove and garbage disposal. When they were built most folks didn't have that fancy central air conditioning. Doesn't mean anyone rewires a house when it sells.
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:55 AM   #34
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Were recently sold our home. My suggestions:

Its your Realtors job to explain these area areas found by inspector and their option to fix/repair. If they want them fixed put that in the offer as a contingency or better pending their inspection.

If they want it changed, the cost is part of the price negotiation. Get a cost from an electrician.

If itís been flagged as a code violation, and youíre not a licensed electrician and you do the repair- if thatís even legal in Texas- youíre setting yourself up for problems. Do you need to disclose the inspection by law? Many states require it- ask your Realtor.

The buyerís inspector and lender may have bigger problems with a flagged code violation repaired by you.




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Old 01-23-2020, 12:08 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLASH_OUTDOORS View Post
This is wrong.

Op. You canít run line and load in the same conduit. Just throw a jbox on existing disconnect and move it over. Abandon the line that goes thru the wall to the unit. Run a new line in a flex whip (assuming itís shorter than 6í) if itís longer you can run sch. 80 pvc and then transition to flex. I will post pic next.


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I agree with everything except the bold.
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Old 01-23-2020, 12:36 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi513 View Post
I agree with everything except the bold.


Well I guess you could. It doesnít say you canít in the code. 230.7 specifically refers to service equipment. You could also trim a commercial building without wrapping the receptacles with tape. It doesnít say you have to in the code. But yes, rubi is correct. Whatís in bold is my personal preference, not code.


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Old 01-23-2020, 10:37 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLASH_OUTDOORS View Post
Well I guess you could. It doesn’t say you can’t in the code. 230.7 specifically refers to service equipment. You could also trim a commercial building without wrapping the receptacles with tape. It doesn’t say you have to in the code. But yes, rubi is correct. What’s in bold is my personal preference, not code.


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Apples and oranges comparison.
Not taping could cause a ground fault...
Line and loads run in the same conduit is quite common.
Switches and photocells are a couple instances off the top of my head.
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Old 02-02-2020, 03:35 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
Were recently sold our home. My suggestions:

Its your Realtors job to explain these area areas found by inspector and their option to fix/repair. If they want them fixed put that in the offer as a contingency or better pending their inspection.

If they want it changed, the cost is part of the price negotiation. Get a cost from an electrician.

If itís been flagged as a code violation, and youíre not a licensed electrician and you do the repair- if thatís even legal in Texas- youíre setting yourself up for problems. Do you need to disclose the inspection by law? Many states require it- ask your Realtor.

The buyerís inspector and lender may have bigger problems with a flagged code violation repaired by you.
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What did you do?

Can a non-licensed Texas homeowner repair an electrical code violation reported in a home inspection report?



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